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Posted: Sat May 31, 2003 8:01 am
by Enchantress
Originally posted by Nippy
LOL! I had meant Newcastle and the Geordie fans, but you're welcome too, as is the rest of SYM! A round of Blaydon Races please! 
Grunty has just told me that "Blaydon Races" is a Geordie song. I wouldn't have known that otherwise! He says you're a canny lad.
Posted: Sat May 31, 2003 3:48 pm
by Gruntboy
I'm staying out of this one.
Much to the chagrin of other teams, Newcastle fans are always regarded as great supporters. I love promoting this view, even if only to p*ss off the other wannabee clans. Wearing a black and white shirt gives you membership of "the Toon" - a special tribe.
Posted: Sat May 31, 2003 4:07 pm
by Nippy
Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2003 6:39 am
by Enchantress
Originally posted by Gruntboy
I'm staying out of this one.
Much to the chagrin of other teams, Newcastle fans are always regarded as great supporters. I love promoting this view, even if only to p*ss off the other wannabee clans. Wearing a black and white shirt gives you membership of "the Toon" - a special tribe.
I don't mind the black and white Newcastle shirt because it looks more like a rugby than a football shirt to me and I have some measure of respect for rugby.
However, I still might be uncomfortable being out in public with someone wearing football colours, though, as it just causes potential problems with other football fans.
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 12:31 am
by Maharlika
Strange...
...does that happen in the U.S. and other countries wherein one is beaten up if seen wearing a rival sports jersey?
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 1:33 am
by Minerva
Re: Strange...
Originally posted by Maharlika
...does that happen in the U.S. and other countries wherein one is beaten up if seen wearing a rival sports jersey?
Well, Mah, in American Football, it happens all the time on the pitch, while it happens regularly inside/outside of stadiums in England if it's proper Football.
*Please note: I said "in England", not *UK*.
*
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 1:34 am
by fable
Re: Strange...
Originally posted by Maharlika
...does that happen in the U.S. and other countries wherein one is beaten up if seen wearing a rival sports jersey?
The US is justifiably regarded as possessing one of the most violent cultures in Western civilization. However, we don't have the rugby riots that are common to many European nations, nor all the spinoffs--like people attacked for wearing a rival jersey, or trains hijacked by mobs of lawless fans.
I can't explain this. Perhaps the outlets for aggression are more common in the US, with its emphasis on participant competitive sports, which fewer European engage in. But I could be wrong.
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 4:45 am
by Nippy
Re: Re: Strange...
Originally posted by Minerva
Well, Mah, in American Football, it happens all the time on the pitch, while it happens regularly inside/outside of stadiums in England if it's proper Football.
*Please note: I said "in England", not *UK*. *
With all due respect, I remind you of Rangers and Celtic who have an even worse reputation for violence (namely against each other) than any other team in the world.
@ Mah, it happens, yes. I'm afraid it goes beyond team loyalty and goes into the den of savagery, but people consider it THAT important to them that they have to do it.
@ Fable, again, with all due respect, rugby riots is not the best term for it. Rugby matches NEVER produce a riot - a quote given to me by coach explained the basic principle of the sport.
"Football is a gentlemen's game played by thugs, rugby is a thugs game played by gentlemen."
In terms of competitive and aggressive sport Fable, the issue largely lies on the adult population who DON'T play any sport - they just watch. The younger kids in Britain are all required to do physical education for a minimum amount of hours. My school was a lot more sports orientated so we did more than the minimum, but we made up for it by doing more schooling hours.
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 6:12 am
by Enchantress
That was all very well put, Nippy.
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 7:26 am
by Mr Sleep
Re: Re: Re: Strange...
Originally posted by Nippy
"Football is a gentlemen's game played by thugs, rugby is a thugs game played by gentlemen."
It's a great quote and your quite right Nippy, I regularly watch rugby and even the most brutal and violent of players have respect for the referee and the other players, okay, occasionally it gets out of hand but I have never in my life seen a rugby player karate kick someone from the crowd, as seen by the Seagull man himself Eric Cantona.
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 8:54 am
by fable
Re: Re: Re: Strange...
Originally posted by Nippy
In terms of competitive and aggressive sport Fable, the issue largely lies on the adult population who DON'T play any sport - they just watch. The younger kids in Britain are all required to do physical education for a minimum amount of hours. My school was a lot more sports orientated so we did more than the minimum, but we made up for it by doing more schooling hours.
I've no disagreement with this, and I think I implied as much when I wrote:
However, we don't have the rugby riots that are common to many European nations, nor all the spinoffs--like people attacked for wearing a rival jersey, or trains hijacked by mobs of lawless fans.
I deliberately didn't mention players--why should I? Players are almost never involved in the violence sparked off by fans, either in Europe or the US. No reason they should be, since they're all highly paid professionals who will do all they can to justify their salaries, and who may someday end up on an opposing team. I mentioned "mobs of fans" as the cause of the disturbances in Europe, and I stick to that.
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 9:21 am
by Mr Sleep
Re: Re: Re: Re: Strange...
Originally posted by fable
I mentioned "mobs of fans" as the cause of the disturbances in Europe, and I stick to that.
And it's football not rugby, football attracts a certain type of fan and rugby attracts another. In my opinion it is related to the fact that football is generally a pretty dull game, you have about 70 minutes of a game that are basically pent up tension which eventually leads to agression, one rarely sees stadium related violence before the game has started. There are riots outside before games even start but that isn't relevant to the sport in my opinion.
Rugby however there is always something going on, a crushing tackle or a try, drop goal, whatever. So the crowd don't have all that build up of emotions.
Plus the players are generally role models, it's sad to admit but it's true, so when the players act with no respect and goad the opposition why would the fans act any differently?
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 2:06 pm
by Gruntboy
Originally posted by Enchantress
I don't mind the black and white Newcastle shirt because it looks more like a rugby than a football shirt to me and I have some measure of respect for rugby.
Plus we look so cute in them.
On the other hand, I'd stay away from a beered up rugger-bugger crowd as I would from a bunch of lager lout footballers.
Perhaps the fuelling with alcohol explains *some* of it.
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 3:41 pm
by Nippy
Originally posted by Gruntboy
Plus we look so cute in them.
On the other hand, I'd stay away from a beered up rugger-bugger crowd as I would from a bunch of lager lout footballers.
Perhaps the fuelling with alcohol explains *some* of it.
Very true Grunt, though the one thing I found was more singing from the beered up rugby fans. Terribly bad, but singing nonetheless.
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 3:43 pm
by Yshania
I used to work at a rugby club (Richmond and London Scots) I will tell you, the women rugby players used to intimidate the men rugby players!
@Sleep, there is always something going on in football too, I guess it is a matter of preference
Do you like rugby league? Personally I hate the game, so boring. Rugby union I can tolerate, especially in the six nations or World Cup
With regards to who are the thugs in sport, to me when a football player leaps feet first into an opposition crowd who are goading him, or when another player happily decks the referee, the thuggery is as much on the pitch as it is in the crowd. In fairness, you would never see a rugby player dissent the ref...
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 3:52 pm
by Nippy
@ Ysh, there is only one incident of referee dissent that I have seen, and that was a South African international. A very portly gentlemen (built like a front row forward) ditched his beer and ran onto the pitch and proceeded to punch the referee for giving a penalty against SA. One thing that made me glad was when the South African player being punished tackled the guy to the ground.
In terms of Rugby League, a good game, not as good as Union, but the fitness for it is phenomenal. I like to watch occassionally, normally Challenge Cup of the World Championships...
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 3:56 pm
by Yshania
@Nippy, LOL! and you still call him a gentleman?
Rugby league is more about ground gaining than skill, more about brute strength. Personally I like moments of speed or skill or inspiration, it is more often that than brute force that turns a game
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 4:01 pm
by Nippy
LOL, I could've called him something else but it would've been blocked.
Too true. I love the way Jason Robinson switches on his speed and just runs the angles. He was made for Union, and it was a shame he played League for too long, I think he could've played even better than he does now. Henry Paul as well, he is coming on a storm, can't wait to see what he gets upto in the England set up...
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 4:33 pm
by RandomThug
I see all this talk of English thuggery and hooliganism. You refer to our "football" and its lack of violence.
How many hockey fans are on this forum? You tell me that If I went to detroit with my kings jersey I would walk out unscathed?
Sure times are nicer but back in the early 80's my pops and his pals used to chase down people who would dare wear the opposing teams jersey to the Great Western Forum (where the LA Kings used to play, damn the Staples Center).
I think its just mob mentality... how many people attend english soccer games? How is the stadium set up? ...
You get enough people together I dont think it matters upon who is playing what where....
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 4:41 pm
by Nippy
It depends really, but the English stadiums in the Premiership (the highest league) can go from anywhere of 30,00 to 70,000.
The stadiums are always divided, away fans are not expected to mingle with home fans, and supporters are encouraged to book the end or side the rest of their fans occupy.