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Pierce Magic is a spell I actually use allways, though why U see it as a bad spell eludes me now... must be me
Im not a real sorceror player, but why is Pierce magic so bad again??

About Tashia, shes great, shes ctaully my fav NPC's, with the most "down-to-earth" dialog...plus shes just funny (sometimes)
About her pet UU-> In my experience it's killed pretty fast, although that Timestop immunity is quite handy ........Didnt "they"want to tone tashia's pet down a bit in the new tashia Mod by the way??

Pierce magic is lame because...

Pierce magic is no good (IMAO) because it's Lower resist + cancel one lower level spell protection. Breach dumps them all.

So, I think you're better off with Breach + LR. You could use Pierce Magic IF you're trying to get another level 5 spell, and aren't super keen on the level 6 choices.

For regular mages, it's much more situational, but remember sorcerers never get more than 5 spells of one level, so they REALLY have to prioritize.

My two gold worth

OK ill elaborate...
Chromatic Orb may never work for you cuase you never do it right. Just as Finger of death will never really work in ToB if you never do it right. Chromatic Orb will work if you lower there saving throws first. Heck it worked on the 2nd try on Firkraag, much better than having to wait to get Finger of Death or trying to melee the dumn thing to death.

As for Melf's, well? So what if it doesn't scale, its a useful spell that you can use to disrupt spells, thats just about all I use it for.

I felt that dispel magic was needed as a spell. Not everyone selects an inquisitor you know. and not everyone bothers to learn it enough times when memorizing.

As for pierce magic, they are useful if YOu don't have ToB and never get Spellstrike.

As for chain lightening, its great cause most enemies don't have much protection against lightening but always have fire and ice protection. +you never have to worry about your cast nailing all you other party members.

As for cloudkill, its just a useful early game spell, once you get wands, its usefullness does decrease. But there arent that many great 5th level spells out there. Notice I said it was "good but not necessary"?... maybe you need better glasses Nephtu

As for DB fireball as my first lvl 7 choice, my list is not in any particular order of choices, just a list of spells I thought would be important for a sorceror to know.

Yeesh this is what happens when you try to rock the boat. You get nailed by people who attack you just cuase you have a differnt opinion... OK so I'll freely admit that I never thought about using simulcrum in that way, now that I know about it next time I run through BG2 ill go select that spell.

BTW Breach lowers combat protections, spell protections will still be there, Pierce magic lowers spell protections, combat protections will still be there. Breach does not "dump them all"
And yes ill admit that Khelbens warding whip is a great spell too...

Remember the forum is a place for people to say there opinions, don't start ripping them just cuase they don't agree with you.

Last... as for playing the game, I've played many RPG games, including pencil and paper ones, so just to clarify I've run through Baldurs gate 2 many times and with the exception of one time I've always played a sorceror or a dual-classed warrior-mage

Originally posted by Sytze
Pierce Magic is a spell I actually use allways, though why U see it as a bad spell eludes me now... must be me
Im not a real sorceror player, but why is Pierce magic so bad again??

About Tashia, shes great, shes ctaully my fav NPC's, with the most "down-to-earth" dialog...plus shes just funny (sometimes)
About her pet UU-> In my experience it's killed pretty fast, although that Timestop immunity is quite handy ........Didnt "they"want to tone tashia's pet down a bit in the new tashia Mod by the way??

yep..peanut will be toned down when bri and maus release the tashia expanded mod...can't wait...

peanut is seriously overpowered...high resistance to magic, elemental damage...try casting regenerate on it, and attack...

pierce magic is not a spell i like...

some great spells at 7th level, i prefer to save the slot...and ruby ray and khelbens warding whip will do more than pierce magic,,,

pierce magic is an abjuration spell, it will be stopped by spell immunity abjuration, which makes using them on smarter mages a no-go...

ruby ray is both abjuration and alteration so it will remove the spell immunity of smarter mages...

khelbens fires three times, and i've noticed when fighting dragons it seems to disrupt their scripts. pierce magic acts only once...

pierce magic, khelbens and ruby ray are only good at removing spell protections...much better to breach them, and whack away with a fighter...or use an area effect spell, like abi dahzim....

Yes they certain do want to tone done Tashia's pet. Her pet doesn't have alot of hit points but he has alot of resistances that make him pretty formidable including resistance to physical damage which effectively triple his hit points. Also they want emit his immunity to time stop as this is way over powered ex mages are not scripted to deal with this contigency. BTW couldn't a projected image of Aerie cast a greater restoration thereby eliminating the worry of fatigue?

Yeah it could,
BTW I officially took back just about everything I said about simulcrum... sometimes a paragraph written just to rock the boat just is taken the wrong way. Im sorry if I offended some people and there precious simulcrum spell. I'll go ahead and say that I was wrong and simulcrums jolly.

No problem Ekental I've been contradicted plenty, thats what this forum is all about learning new things. Feel the love.

ekental, here are some suggestions about chromatic orb and a few others...both you and nephtu have made some excellent and valid points..

chromatic orb is best used in spell sequencer, following a malison, then two chromatic orbs...whats great about the spell is you can also prepare a minor sequencer of 2 chromatic orbs to to a second spell attack next round...i agree chromatic orb is a wonderful spell, it really can be a low cost finger of death if you hit a target with enough of them...have all your mages with chromatic orbs in all the sequencer spells you have do a mass launch against a dragon...funnier than heck...

melf is a great spell for disrupting mages, and killing trolls, however as nephtu pointed out, it doesn't scale up...which is why many people think that waiting for melf minute meteors is the way to go...useful against demi liches, some fun tricks, like equipping an off handed weapon, and using with improved haste is the way to go. i actually get them both, since melf acid arrows becomes very useful used in a minor sequencer.

here is a fun trick with dispell magic...lots of people don't like dispell, since it WILL blast away your combat protections, (Your spells will always affect you...) and think that remove magic is the way to go...i usually have both...however, if you don't have an inquisitor, try in preparing for combat casting spell immunity abjuration after casting your buffing spells, like stoneskin and mirror image on yourself. you can now cast dispell magic like crazy and it wont remove your spell protections!!! using this trick, i would rate dispell at least as useful as remove magic...

i rather like chain lightning, but 6 level spell selection is always hard, lots of great spells there, and if i have a specific spell in mind i sometimes dump it. however, it is the last direct damage spell you can spell trigger, so i usually keep it. spell trigger makes it much more useful, especially against mutiple targets...

i completely agree with nephtu about cloudkill...wands make the spell useless...same goes for fireball...stick to skull traps, which have a much higher cap...it is fun tho...but so is having a party of all mages point fireball wands at a group of orcs, and all unleashing a fireball in the same round...firing squad style...

urm...breach is all you really ever need...spell protections only block TARGETTED spells...

unless you have tactics mod installed, you only need breach and remove/dispell magic for the entire game...

spell protections like spell turning or spell trap will not stop abi dahzim strikes, or fireballs or skull traps...

its also tactically sound to use opposing tactics against enemies...for example, you should use magic on monsters who can't use magic, and whack mages and spell casters...breach and whack away.

remove and dispell magic is for fighting liches...who despite the description saying they're immune to 5th level spells and below, you can remove magic or dispell their physical protections...use spell sequencer to do a good job...

now, only if you get tactics mod smarter mages component installed do you need spell protection removal spells...and ruby ray is the best selection for that task...

Originally posted by Ekental
Well... uh... D#^^ your BG Knowledge!

I did write the hero's guide to adventure...better known as the cheese guide...

http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/cheese_guide.zip

I could be wrong in this, but I read somewere that Mirror Image blocks ADHW...

I havent tested it, so I could be completely wrong....

A point...

Originally posted by Ekental

.....SNIP....
As for DB fireball as my first lvl 7 choice, my list is not in any particular order of choices, just a list of spells I thought would be important for a sorceror to know.
.....SNIP....

Selection order is ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL for sorcerors, so not listing spells in order is simply silly - and compleletly incomprehensible if playing a sorceror is what you do normally.

Chromatic orb IS potentially a great spell, but even with greater malison and doom, it just won't stick to anything you really have a need to insta-kill.

And, if you're looking to rock the boat, you can't moan about getting wet

Im not posting spell selections to tell people exactly what order they need to choose a spell!
I'd think that most people are smart enough to figure out what spells they need first if they manage to get through the game and are selecting Lvl 7 spells.
My list is a list of what I think are useful spells, I'm not going to say what order a person should pick these spells cause it really depends on strategy...
The first time I played this game I got through fine selecting DB Fireball as my first pick cause most of my party was all archers and such so id just throw a bunch of traps in the enemies way along with a bunch of webs and such and theyd all die... For me DB fireball as my first choice worked fine.
Anyway, this is supposed to be a fun game right? You want to have a little personal taste or variety. It gets old real fast if you make a wizzie or sorceror with the same d#^^ Spells every single time you go through the game. This leads people to say "try different strategies"

BTW I dont "moan" lets say instead that I "groan" or "sigh"? And I'm not complaining about getting wet. I'm complaining about the fact that some people feel the need to try to beat other people down for having a different opinion than them. It goes against the spirit of having forums in the first place.

And yes forums do have a spirit

Oh, please...

Give it up, Ekental, just admit you're wrong or drop it.

It's critical to note that mods - particularly tactics and spell-50 significantly modify the best spell choices, as does party makeup.

All that being said, play what you like by all means, just flag it as such.

Good gaming to all!

Originally posted by Sytze
I could be wrong in this, but I read somewere that Mirror Image blocks ADHW...

Yep. The way Mirror Image works in the Infinity Engine games is that every time you take damage (from an outside source, so not poison), one of your images may take it in your stead (destroying the image). It's not 100% safe, but the more images you have, the better the odds of an image taking the blow for you.

Originally posted by Xyx
Yep. The way Mirror Image works in the Infinity Engine games is that every time you take damage (from an outside source, so not poison), one of your images may take it in your stead (destroying the image). It's not 100% safe, but the more images you have, the better the odds of an image taking the blow for you.

also works for inc cloud, fireball, etc...

i wonder if it works for dragon breath??? probably...though its good to Never test it out...

'cause the way to test it would be to have an enemy cast dragon breath on you...YIKES!!!

this is why sorcs never need elemental protection spells...mirror image...oh and if you plan to use mirror image on tactics smarter liches, you're going to want to cast spell immunity divination...true sight will dispell mirror images...

pierce magic is an abjuration spell, it will be stopped by spell immunity abjuration, which makes using them on smarter mages a no-go...

UU, who are the smarter mages among the enemy you refer to, above? I'm not arguing with this point. I'm just curious.

Originally posted by fable
pierce magic is an abjuration spell, it will be stopped by spell immunity abjuration, which makes using them on smarter mages a no-go...

UU, who are the smarter mages among the enemy you refer to, above? I'm not arguing with this point. I'm just curious.

its a component of wes weimer's tactics mod...

also known as the "Advertisement for Rogain" since so many people have ripped their hair out trying to beat them...it changes the scripts for mages and liches in the game, making them incredibly hard... and fun...

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly
its a component of wes weimer's tactics mod...

also known as the "Advertisement for Rogain" since so many people have ripped their hair out trying to beat them...it changes the scripts for mages and liches in the game, making them incredibly hard... and fun...

Thanks! I think that if I want that level of fun, I'll stick with beating myself over the head with a steel crowbar.

Originally posted by fable
Thanks! I think that if I want that level of fun, I'll stick with beating myself over the head with a steel crowbar.

now you know why i created bun-bun...it was a natural reaction to getting my @ss handed to me with my standard sorceror...

spoiler

Thats why I am a bit sceptical(...) of those smarter liches and mages, I think my Archer will be dead within not to long, especially since I encounter liches at pretty low levels (level 9) in places like the Temple Ruins...



Edit: new avatar UU??