Hardest Enemy

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:14 am

I used to think those guys on the Den of Seven Vales easy enough... Got beaten two times, but only when I was on my first run through the game.

Using a little bit (not too much) cheese always did the trick with them.

The final WK group of enemies is as hard as hell if you dont trap the entire site - and I dont do that just for the fun of losing one or two party members when you cant bring them back, and fighting the Demogorgon with lots of advantage(for him). The improved Demogorgon is awesome - just got to beat him once, and it was my heaven.

The Dragons are not so tough, they should be worst - nearly impossible to kill, IMO. Something like a leech dragon will be nice to see.

Twisted rune is not so much hard with cheese, however, soloing it even with cheese may prove hard enough to drive one priest, druid or barbarian mad.

Improved Ilich is cool to beat, since you've got no big deal party when you meet him.

My worst battle -xcept for imp Demogorgon - was that Sendai Crap Queen (improved, of course) wich has destroyed my party 5 times, killed my pc 8 times, and made me bored countless times. But I've killed her, with a little bit extra strategies than against that Melissan Irenicus Immy Bhodi ending.

Abazigal is kinda troublesome on Improved version, but just killing his party before destroying himself is enough for a piece of cake ride.

Fixed a few misspelled things

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:41 am

More...

Generally, IMAO, the worst fights are the ones you can't do any area prep for, or leave the area once the fight has begun. As a rule, if you can prep the area with some unpleasant surprises, the fight can be simplified a great deal. Similarly, if the opposing party can be split up and dealt with individually (where you're fighting groups), they can be defeated piecemeal. The latter is why I've always been easily able to beat the sewer party early on.

On consideration, I'd have to say that Ritual (tactics mod) is the coolest fight form a script sophistication standpoint, given that your opponents are fairly low level, modest stats, and have no uber undroppable gear or extraordinary special abilities above those simple ones possessed by the skulls. Nonetheless, it's a hella hard fight, and a real challenge to complete succesfully in time.

Eclipse is the hardest fight from a straight party-party basis, easy enough if you have a good understanding of the spell architecture, but not a fight you can brute force at all. Ascension is also hella tough, but you can have all kinds of summons ready at least, as with improved Irenicus.

Kangaxx, if done at a suitably low level, is the best single tough guy fight. Except for improved Abazigal (which is a party fight), dragons just never quite work out - the small teeth pass crowd are challenging, but only really because of the "instant fight" and ongoing dragon breath attacks - both resolvable with a bit of care. No D&D type game single dragon really cuts it, which is a bit of a pity, especially after fighting the really exciting dragons in a game like Everquest.

Honorable mention: Improved Ilyich, Yaga Shura, Sendai, Abazigal, Mae'Var, Twisted Rune and Tor'Gal (a wicked fight if you head off to the De'Arnose keep early, as I usually do)

Good gaming!

Gauda · Post by **Gauda** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:05 pm

Re: It depends on your level, of course

Originally posted by Boris
The big variable about a lot of fights is when you encounter them, since the majority of quests can be undertaken at any time.

A party stumbling into Kangaax straight out of Chateau Irenicus aren't even going to have time to be embarassed about it, but if fully prepped with Charsomyr, Cloak of Cheese, etc. he can be a doddle. Personally, I wondered why there was all the fuss about the Twisted Rune, but then I've only ever tried it late in SoA when vampires & beholders are about as scary as goblins. By contrast, I found the 7 Vales crew to be almost unbeatable early on and the Sewers party have repeatedly handed me my vital organs on a platter. Some encounters vary according to the party's strength, of course, but many do not.

Dragons always put up a good fight, mind - which is as it should be. I don't know if there's a save against Wing Buffet, but if so my chars never seem to make it!
I think I'd rate Ascension (moded ToB, albeit) as the toughest & best - because it comes right at the end, the designer can safely assume that the party is as good as it's going to get. The varied but complementary threats of the enemies are a real challenge, without being over-the-top - you have beaten these guys before, after all!

Lastly, I think the feral hobbits in the Planar Sphere are worth a mention. Even though I *know* they're really nasty, they still always catch me not-quite well-enough prepared; don't think I've ever beaten them at the first attempt.

B.

P.S. I'm surprised the Cult of the eyeless comes so "soon" - any innocent wanderer into the Temple District gets directed there rightaway. But I generally wouldn't try it till after the Underdark... Of course, maybe I'm just a big wuss!

Well aye, almost any encounter (except demigorgon which is the most powerfull enemy in the game) can be as hard or as easy as you want it to be. That's the beauty of the game, from the moment you enter atkhatla you can almost go to any area in the entire game.

I must agree, there are indeed more than meets the eye with the halflings (hobbits do not excist in D&D

) in the planar sphere. And if you go unprepared, espcially the mage can be though indeed.

Ian Kognitow · Post by **Ian Kognitow** » Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:18 pm

The main fight that I find continually difficult is the yellow dragon. I never quite figured out all the protections he uses and what all he is immune to but it's pretty much the only fight where I expect to lose party members. Someone tends to go down with eclipse but I'm normally not worried about actually *losing* as long as my spell triggers work properly. The yellow dragon though...geez. As Bruce Lee was saying, it would seem ridiculous to face it with a party at 2m exp, though I'm not sure that is the intent. Obviously if you complete the ritual properly you can avoid the fight and it would make sense to be more powerful if you want to take him on.

Other fights with more contingent difficulties include:

The second part of improved irenicus can be a pain depending on your character. I'm not sure if it's possible to take his slayer form directly (anytime I tried I didn't last long) so somehow hasting oneself to get back to your gear is essential. Again, can be cheesed by laying down a line of traps down toward the corridor you're knocked back to. Irenicus just runs right through them toward you.

Ascension remains hard but I've found that that too is easily trapped. Time traps are great there, especially if you have Valen. And it tends to be a lot easier if there's someone in the party that can use Harm on Yaga-Shura. Even without trapping it now tends to be manageable with decent tactics and some summons. Then it becomes for me more a matter of taking down Yaga-Shura since Melissan's eventual demon summoning can get overwhelming if you just have to sit there and wail on him for 20 rounds.

Improved Abazigal can be hard if the lesser drakes aren't taken out quickly. I find it fun to time stop and then run around imprisoning them, though it doesn't always work since they like going invisible.

Improved Mae-var is quite difficult with a lower level party if you're playing a good character. Without being able to use area damage spells because of the prisoner the archers can take parties down very fast. Not really sure of a good tactic on it other than mass amounts of web and stinky cloud.

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 9:45 am

Originally posted by Ian Kognitow

Improved Mae-var is quite difficult with a lower level party if you're playing a good character. Without being able to use area damage spells because of the prisoner the archers can take parties down very fast. Not really sure of a good tactic on it other than mass amounts of web and stinky cloud.

For Improved Mae'var I *usually* just skull trap the heck out of the back end of the room - placing them so as not to hit the prisoner, with a decent line of rogue traps and have just the PC go in invisible. With care you can also cage any assassins who survive the traps - even though you're invisible, they will still follow you

. Then you can just bring down your party & pull the survivors in to be conveniently killed. The fight is a good one, though, and quite challenging if the room isn't prepped.

Have fun!

CrownHead · Post by **CrownHead** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:13 pm

The really really long fight I had the most trouble with was the escape from the mindflayer prison.

But then again, all my other party members are usually dead then and I don't have anything to raise them so I just have to solo it.

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 12:24 pm

The mindflayer dungeon is moderate difficulty IMO. You just gotta have high int levels - no prob fer me, usually dualing f mage or using mage or bard.

The improved Maevar is way harder too... got destroyed 3 times before tought bout doing some different thing than hack and slash your way to victory, you know.

Bloodstalker · Post by **Bloodstalker** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:06 pm

hobgoblins.

CrownHead · Post by **CrownHead** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 1:06 am

Ubwwaaaaaaahhh??

Fer'or · Post by **Fer'or** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:22 am

I found the sewers-party to be pretty tough, as well as Torgal and Firkraag. But I haven't fought Improved Irenicus yet though.

Rudar Dimble · Post by **Rudar Dimble** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 4:05 am

I think the adventure party in the sewers and Firkaag are the toughest in the game. Irenicus is a ****y

The Demilich is so easy
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just polymorph yourself into a ooze (100% magic resistance) and wait for his spells to run out. Then get the rest of your party in and finish him.

Gauda · Post by **Gauda** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 4:57 am

I just remembered some cheese I invented that you can do with the adventure party in the sewers that will easen the match alot. Before you come to the area which triggers the dialog with the party leader, throw a cloukill at the very end of you sight range, this will do substantial damage to the party before they attack, and will also almost always interrupt those nasty spellcasters in the back

lompo · Post by **lompo** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:23 am

Originally posted by Rudar Dimble
The Demilich is so easy
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just polymorph yourself into a ooze (100% magic resistance) and wait for his spells to run out. Then get the rest of your party in and finish him.

If I don't remember bad the imprisoment spell of the demilich bypass MR, so only protection from magic spell work with it (and obviously berserker rage and S.I. abjuration).

Also we should make distinction between modded and unmodded enemies/fight and specify to which we are referring, some fight are very hard in unmodded version (and not so hard in modded version), others are hard only in modded version.

Rudar Dimble · Post by **Rudar Dimble** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:35 am

it's been a while so may be I used to prot from magic spell aswell, but I know for sure that I polymorphed into an ooze and kicked his ass easily

Armycardinal · Post by **Armycardinal** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 7:11 am

SPOILER - Demi-Lich

Or...You could change into the Slayer - you're immune to his spells then, too. His 50 HP fall pretty easily.

'course, I begged for help here to discover that, and about 20+ reloads

AC

Boris · Post by **Boris** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 4:41 am

What is wrong with the modern world?

Originally posted by Gauda
...hobbits do not exist in D&D )

I just don't get it. Any time (well, twice so far) I use the word "Hobbit", someone tells me "we don't use that word in D&D". Sorry, but since when have private individuals been bound by TSR's old copyright issues? Does anybody actually say "halfling" when talking normally? Nobody I know, in RL...

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck & sounds like a duck - well, it's probably...

B.

Rudar Dimble · Post by **Rudar Dimble** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 4:44 am

Re: What is wrong with the modern world?

Originally posted by Boris
I just don't get it. Any time (well, twice so far) I use the word "Hobbit", someone tells me "we don't use that word in D&D". Sorry, but since when have private individuals been bound by TSR's old copyright issues? Does anybody actually say "halfling" when talking normally? Nobody I know, in RL...

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck & sounds like a duck - well, it's probably...

B.

Well, the term hobbit just doesn't exist in the D&D world. And since TSR created the D&D-world we are kinda bound by their standards.

And yes, people in the D&D-world do speak of halflings, elves etc IRL.

infamousjansen · Post by **infamousjansen** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 8:06 am

spoiler
i found the greater werewolve (or wolvewere

) in the windspear hills to be quite impossible with the speed that it was regenerating ...

anyway since that was a bug i dont think it counted...

1st runthrough i found the adventurers in the temple sewers to be near-impossible, but if you prepare a bit their nothing more than a slight bump in the road to deity.... anyway i dont really think that there are difficult fights xcept for when fighting kangaaxx and i keep battering him and he keeps near death even though he was takin bout 20 damages each hit from my hasted barbarian :S ....

anyway there aren't too many difficult battles xcept i havent done irenicus enough so he is still a struggle ... i also remember having a really hard time my first run through of the game with those little halfings or something in the planar sphere and also the wizard that edwin orders you to kill... beholders are difficult but thats why i use the shield

but about turning into an ooze for 100% magic resistance against kangaax has never worked for me :S he still manages to kill me then ... anyway i must be messing it up somewhere

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:06 am

Re: Re: What is wrong with the modern world?

Originally posted by Rudar Dimble
Well, the term hobbit just doesn't exist in the D&D world. And since TSR created the D&D-world we are kinda bound by their standards.

And yes, people in the D&D-world do speak of halflings, elves etc IRL.

Ugh!

Halflings are, unquestionably, straight rip-offs of Hobbits, as treants are of ents. Indeed, much of the world of Faerun is a pastiche of elements cobbelled together from a variety of fantasy works & shoehorned into simple gaming categories (Like color coded dragons - yeccch) This will be readily apparent to any whose reading extends beyond the sad farrago that is Dragonlance & related D&D lit.

So, call them what you like ...I call them the other other white myself, but that's neither here nor there

Mr.Waesel · Post by **Mr.Waesel** » Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:09 am

Huh? Sewer party? I have never had any problems with them...ever.