interesting. a fair few games have the odd section where you can make or modify kit, but if you can play about with the constituent parts beforehand, it could be very interesting - a warrior goes hunting for better component items, a wizard can enchant metals before forging or engrave or alter the weapon afterwards, alchemists could create more powerful metals, and so forth. the possibilities are endless, but it may take a fair bit of figuring out on paper first if you get carried away...
also, it's given me a fair few ideas - I'm currently planning on having very few characters that have access to skill trees that allow them to create and use mechanical creatures to aid them in battle. your idea, however, means that I may be able to move away from a straight skill tree, and instead use stats and try to develop new variants of creatures. for example, a lump of new tougher metal could be used either in fabricating a new design of machine, or to improve an old design and thus increase its stats on the battlefield.
If you could design your own RPG.....? :)
About skiltree
I have 2 options:
1)When creating character, you may select class. The class you select gives you some bonus to some skills. For example, Cleric get bonus to healing skills, whereas thief get bonus to sneak, hide etc.
2)When creating character, you don't select class. When leveling you can select skills without limit. You can master in some things like fighting or healing, or you can learn a little bit of everything but you are not specially good at any.
Which one you prefer?
I have 2 options:
1)When creating character, you may select class. The class you select gives you some bonus to some skills. For example, Cleric get bonus to healing skills, whereas thief get bonus to sneak, hide etc.
2)When creating character, you don't select class. When leveling you can select skills without limit. You can master in some things like fighting or healing, or you can learn a little bit of everything but you are not specially good at any.
Which one you prefer?
"As we all know, holy men were born during Christmas...
Like mr. Holopainen over there!"
- Marco Hietala, the bass player of Nightwish
Like mr. Holopainen over there!"
- Marco Hietala, the bass player of Nightwish
-
Rudar Dimble
- Posts: 924
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- Location: "I did? Hmm...I must be getting old."
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Originally posted by Kipi
About skiltree
I have 2 options:
1)When creating character, you may select class. The class you select gives you some bonus to some skills. For example, Cleric get bonus to healing skills, whereas thief get bonus to sneak, hide etc.
2)When creating character, you don't select class. When leveling you can select skills without limit. You can master in some things like fighting or healing, or you can learn a little bit of everything but you are not specially good at any.
Which one you prefer?
The second!
Broken promises
"They made us many promises,
more than I can remember.
But they kept but one -
They promised to take our land...
and they took it"
Chief Red Cloud
"They made us many promises,
more than I can remember.
But they kept but one -
They promised to take our land...
and they took it"
Chief Red Cloud
tough question. are you planning on having distinct NPCs, as BG2, or mindless drones, as in IWD seies?
with distinct characters it's easier to go with the fluid development thing because characters are distinct on their own, wheras a squad of units would usually be divided into jobs so that you don't have the whole "was faceless drone #4 specialising in juggling or was it trying to master level 3 priapism magic?"
on the whole, I'd say go for the stat-based option, and use the values, character levels, race, etc. to give the character access to new skills - for example, the character's level limits what healing spells you have access to, but the individual's healing stat score regulates how many they can cast, the success rate, the efficacy, and so on.
with distinct characters it's easier to go with the fluid development thing because characters are distinct on their own, wheras a squad of units would usually be divided into jobs so that you don't have the whole "was faceless drone #4 specialising in juggling or was it trying to master level 3 priapism magic?"
on the whole, I'd say go for the stat-based option, and use the values, character levels, race, etc. to give the character access to new skills - for example, the character's level limits what healing spells you have access to, but the individual's healing stat score regulates how many they can cast, the success rate, the efficacy, and so on.
Here where the flattering and mendacious swarm
Of lying epitaths their secrets keep,
At last incapable of further harm
The lewd forefathers of the village sleep.
Of lying epitaths their secrets keep,
At last incapable of further harm
The lewd forefathers of the village sleep.
I was thinking that at start you don't have any skills at all (not included fighting). For example, if you want to make items, you have to go talk to local smith and ask him to teach you. Then, after, let's say every 10 level, you have to go see him again. When you ask him teach you again, you gain access to some new skills, and so on.
"As we all know, holy men were born during Christmas...
Like mr. Holopainen over there!"
- Marco Hietala, the bass player of Nightwish
Like mr. Holopainen over there!"
- Marco Hietala, the bass player of Nightwish
Here is races I thought to add in my game:
-Human
*Amazon (female only)
*Barbarian
-Elf
-Orc
-Half-Orc
-Half-Elf
-Goblin (not sure yet, but still in list)
-Dwarf
-Gnome
-Minotaur
-Vampire
In my opinion barbarian is race, not class, so I added it to list. I haven't decided more subraces, but if anyone have good idea, send it
-Human
*Amazon (female only)
*Barbarian
-Elf
-Orc
-Half-Orc
-Half-Elf
-Goblin (not sure yet, but still in list)
-Dwarf
-Gnome
-Minotaur
-Vampire
In my opinion barbarian is race, not class, so I added it to list. I haven't decided more subraces, but if anyone have good idea, send it
"As we all know, holy men were born during Christmas...
Like mr. Holopainen over there!"
- Marco Hietala, the bass player of Nightwish
Like mr. Holopainen over there!"
- Marco Hietala, the bass player of Nightwish
-
Malta Soron
- Posts: 526
- Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:21 pm
- Location: Leiden
- Contact:
maybe include vampire with other classes such as werewolf and so forth as additional options after selecting a race, giving unique penalties and bonuses on top of the standard racial variations?
Here where the flattering and mendacious swarm
Of lying epitaths their secrets keep,
At last incapable of further harm
The lewd forefathers of the village sleep.
Of lying epitaths their secrets keep,
At last incapable of further harm
The lewd forefathers of the village sleep.
-
Galuf the Dwarf
- Posts: 3160
- Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 11:00 am
- Location: Connecticut, a place of open land, hills, forests,
- Contact:
Originally posted by Robnark
maybe include vampire with other classes such as werewolf and so forth as additional options after selecting a race, giving unique penalties and bonuses on top of the standard racial variations?
Well, according to various Forgotten Realms/D&D sources, lycanthropes and vampires are actually considered "templates." My knowledge of were-beasts/lycanthropes is greater than that of vampires, so I'll focus more on that, if you don't mind. Ahem...
From what I've known, lycanthropes have a certain alignment (Werewolves are Chaotic Evil, Weretigers and Wereboars are True Neutral, and Werebears are Lawful Good). Afflicted Lycantropes (those who were bitten by a were-beast and contracted lycanthropy) have a level adjustment of +1, while Natural Lycanthropes have +2, along with the animal form's Hit Dice along with any racial Hit Dice that the base race may have. There is more information on the Lycanthrope template in the FR accessory book "Races of Faerun."
Dungeon Crawl Inc.: It's the most fun you can have without 3 midgets and a whip! Character stats made by your's truly!
disclaimer: I have had no contact with D&D rules outside of computer games, and I feel strangely proud of the fact, and I neither know nor care what a template is.
I prefer a more fluid system when it comes to these additional variations. one character I'm working on is a former holy warrior who was vampirified and fled his order. now, he can either embrace vampirism, gaining kudos with the evil and undead but pissing off the holy dudes even more. he can fight the vampirism and gain holy powers by continuing to serve his god. alternatively, he can reject both and master his current skills and the more neutral arts of perforating other creatures with pointed bits of metal.
each path offers different bonuses and penalties. basically, I don't want your character to become a generic monster class, rather, these variations offer new ways to improve a character, albeit for a price.
I prefer a more fluid system when it comes to these additional variations. one character I'm working on is a former holy warrior who was vampirified and fled his order. now, he can either embrace vampirism, gaining kudos with the evil and undead but pissing off the holy dudes even more. he can fight the vampirism and gain holy powers by continuing to serve his god. alternatively, he can reject both and master his current skills and the more neutral arts of perforating other creatures with pointed bits of metal.
each path offers different bonuses and penalties. basically, I don't want your character to become a generic monster class, rather, these variations offer new ways to improve a character, albeit for a price.
Here where the flattering and mendacious swarm
Of lying epitaths their secrets keep,
At last incapable of further harm
The lewd forefathers of the village sleep.
Of lying epitaths their secrets keep,
At last incapable of further harm
The lewd forefathers of the village sleep.
-
InfiniteNature
- Posts: 352
- Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2002 8:51 am
- Location: In the infinite abyss, between dreams and nightmar
- Contact:
RANT ON
I don't know I just wish there could be more character distinction, I mean it would be really cool if for example you could just be a baker or a peasant or some corrupt politician, or a simple sailor not a buccaineer or swashbuckler, or something rather then the typical hack slash, thieve, heal adventurer supergod type thing where the sole point is to gain more experience, etc. its almost as if the whole world in most RPGs is solely made of adventurers and somehow other stuff gets done, geez how does stuff get done?
If I had to design a RPG I would make it immersevive, and even give the option of not fighting at all, I mean what about a priest or doctor who heals the sick, you could still get a adventurer experience, but with having to deal with the consequences, say a war where one of those true adventurers is fighting in, you have to make conversation choices, go out to rescue wounded soldiers, try to solve court intrigues.
I also would like to have more realistic damage, I mean where were the good old days, when you could actually get maimed, or lose a eye, or whatever, I mean you can to some degree in the Forgotten realm books, but the games just have a simplistic drink potion, heal spell system, which doesn't really address it, I mean you could have permanent dexterity damage, say you hurt your hands in a trap, now maybe you have to be something else, and thus you are pushed along a different path, maybe you have to improve your persuacion skill, or perhaps you become a fighter.
One other thing I would change about RPGs is this resonant obsession with good and evil, in almost every single game I have played characters almost always fall into these two characters, and frankly it gets kind of dull, the villains even laugh like a typical stereotypical villain usually have a sense of humor(and is usually sexless), the heroes never laugh have no sense of humor(and again is usually sexless), I mean honestly is it to much to ask to have a bit more complex characters then this. And whats up with that whole sexless thing, apparently you can't be totally evil or good without losing all that nooky, me wonders why they bother going either way its better in the middle.
More complex creatures, I mean you just know every red dragon is going to be evil, every gold good, you just know a orc is up to some dastardly deed, while a normal elf is usually doing some good.
And I would also like a RPG that for once Evil ruled, where Good was barely a memory, I mean what kind of heroes are you when you always win, you only have heroes when you have a true challenge, where you lose, where there is no chance later on for some hero to come along and redress your wrongs, where its you nobody else, where the Gods that do exist are mostly evil, and where the Good gods are weak, I mean it would be more fun.
So anyway I would design a RPG with more complexity, both in terms of character choices and personality, and racial complexity, where you get damage more realistically, where good and evil are not so easy to figure out(play the game Beyond Good and Evil similar), and where for once Evil rules. And where in this world a hero would never be sure what allies he or she might have, where you actually have to think rather then simply hack and slash(even a pure fighter has to think, truth of the matter is in real life the best warriors have to be able to think, both tactically and strategically).
Oh well just my preferences, no harm no foul just a opinion.
RANT OFF
I don't know I just wish there could be more character distinction, I mean it would be really cool if for example you could just be a baker or a peasant or some corrupt politician, or a simple sailor not a buccaineer or swashbuckler, or something rather then the typical hack slash, thieve, heal adventurer supergod type thing where the sole point is to gain more experience, etc. its almost as if the whole world in most RPGs is solely made of adventurers and somehow other stuff gets done, geez how does stuff get done?
If I had to design a RPG I would make it immersevive, and even give the option of not fighting at all, I mean what about a priest or doctor who heals the sick, you could still get a adventurer experience, but with having to deal with the consequences, say a war where one of those true adventurers is fighting in, you have to make conversation choices, go out to rescue wounded soldiers, try to solve court intrigues.
I also would like to have more realistic damage, I mean where were the good old days, when you could actually get maimed, or lose a eye, or whatever, I mean you can to some degree in the Forgotten realm books, but the games just have a simplistic drink potion, heal spell system, which doesn't really address it, I mean you could have permanent dexterity damage, say you hurt your hands in a trap, now maybe you have to be something else, and thus you are pushed along a different path, maybe you have to improve your persuacion skill, or perhaps you become a fighter.
One other thing I would change about RPGs is this resonant obsession with good and evil, in almost every single game I have played characters almost always fall into these two characters, and frankly it gets kind of dull, the villains even laugh like a typical stereotypical villain usually have a sense of humor(and is usually sexless), the heroes never laugh have no sense of humor(and again is usually sexless), I mean honestly is it to much to ask to have a bit more complex characters then this. And whats up with that whole sexless thing, apparently you can't be totally evil or good without losing all that nooky, me wonders why they bother going either way its better in the middle.
More complex creatures, I mean you just know every red dragon is going to be evil, every gold good, you just know a orc is up to some dastardly deed, while a normal elf is usually doing some good.
And I would also like a RPG that for once Evil ruled, where Good was barely a memory, I mean what kind of heroes are you when you always win, you only have heroes when you have a true challenge, where you lose, where there is no chance later on for some hero to come along and redress your wrongs, where its you nobody else, where the Gods that do exist are mostly evil, and where the Good gods are weak, I mean it would be more fun.
So anyway I would design a RPG with more complexity, both in terms of character choices and personality, and racial complexity, where you get damage more realistically, where good and evil are not so easy to figure out(play the game Beyond Good and Evil similar), and where for once Evil rules. And where in this world a hero would never be sure what allies he or she might have, where you actually have to think rather then simply hack and slash(even a pure fighter has to think, truth of the matter is in real life the best warriors have to be able to think, both tactically and strategically).
Oh well just my preferences, no harm no foul just a opinion.
RANT OFF
"In Germany, they first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the homosexuals and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a homosexual. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a protestant. Then they came for me--but by that time there was no one left to speak up."
Pastor Martin Neimoller
Infinity is a fathomless gulf, into which all things vanish.
Marcus Aurelius (121-180) Roman Emperor and Philosopher
To see a world in a grain of sand
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
And eternity in an hour.
Frodo has failed, Bush has the ring.
Pastor Martin Neimoller
Infinity is a fathomless gulf, into which all things vanish.
Marcus Aurelius (121-180) Roman Emperor and Philosopher
To see a world in a grain of sand
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
And eternity in an hour.
Frodo has failed, Bush has the ring.
-
Galuf the Dwarf
- Posts: 3160
- Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 11:00 am
- Location: Connecticut, a place of open land, hills, forests,
- Contact:
Originally posted by Robnark
disclaimer: I have had no contact with D&D rules outside of computer games, and I feel strangely proud of the fact, and I neither know nor care what a template is.
I prefer a more fluid system when it comes to these additional variations. one character I'm working on is a former holy warrior who was vampirified and fled his order. now, he can either embrace vampirism, gaining kudos with the evil and undead but pissing off the holy dudes even more. he can fight the vampirism and gain holy powers by continuing to serve his god. alternatively, he can reject both and master his current skills and the more neutral arts of perforating other creatures with pointed bits of metal.
each path offers different bonuses and penalties. basically, I don't want your character to become a generic monster class, rather, these variations offer new ways to improve a character, albeit for a price.
A holy warrior cursed with vampirism... I like that.
You have a very smart idea, which I had thought of myself for some time with little ambition, to tell the truth. The most intruiging part is that you thought of a THIRD path on with he can tread - a rather neutral warrior path. Still, will he have to deal with the temptation of the vampiric taint AND the calling of the order and supernatural being that he had served?
Sounds like you're off to an interesting start. Still, you may have far to go.
Dungeon Crawl Inc.: It's the most fun you can have without 3 midgets and a whip! Character stats made by your's truly!
well, I have tthought werewolfs and so on.
I just don't see many positive sides on those. Vampire is different, because vampire can drain blood and that way heal himself. What could be werewolfs positive sides? There has to be some, otherwise nobody will play whith them.
I decided to not use the Lawful Good -- Chaotic Evil option. I have thought something like in Fallout 1 and 2, karma, which is different in every place. For example, in some town you could be idolized, but in other town you will be attacked as soon as anybody sees you. Your action will affect to your karma. But in my game, karma will realy affect. For example, in Fallout 2 althought you were bad guy, most of the gangs still attacked you as you were good guy.
I just don't see many positive sides on those. Vampire is different, because vampire can drain blood and that way heal himself. What could be werewolfs positive sides? There has to be some, otherwise nobody will play whith them.
I decided to not use the Lawful Good -- Chaotic Evil option. I have thought something like in Fallout 1 and 2, karma, which is different in every place. For example, in some town you could be idolized, but in other town you will be attacked as soon as anybody sees you. Your action will affect to your karma. But in my game, karma will realy affect. For example, in Fallout 2 althought you were bad guy, most of the gangs still attacked you as you were good guy.
"As we all know, holy men were born during Christmas...
Like mr. Holopainen over there!"
- Marco Hietala, the bass player of Nightwish
Like mr. Holopainen over there!"
- Marco Hietala, the bass player of Nightwish
Nah, I want to add alignment system to make the game more realistic (you can't kill anybody without getting hated).
Thanks Malta Soron, I forgot Halflings
Thinking Golum the Dwarf's reply, I decide to make changes to my race list:
Removed race: Vampire
Added race: Templates (aren't these also called Shapeshifters?)
Added sub-races to one above:
*Vampire
*Werewolf
*Wereboar
*Weretiger
*Wererat
Wererat may sound weird but think about it: wererat can sneak past enemies, reach plaeces which you can't get otherwise, poisons enemy. On the other hand wererat can't carry any items while in rat's form and are easier to kill by enemies.
I have also decided to add some puzzles in game. Here is one:
Town's fool tells you "The bird is everything, but do not forget lizard!" Later, you haveto choose between two swords. In first swords background information are mentioned bird. This sword is VERY powerful. In the seconds sword background is mentioned lizard. This sword is almost useless because it doesn't give almost any bonuses. After chosing you have to fight against hard enemy. The first sword doesn't do any damage to monster, but if you have remembered the fools words and have chose the second one, you haven't any problems. So all you have to do to get past monster, is to realy listen every word you hear, althought those seems to be stupid.
What do you think?
Thanks Malta Soron, I forgot Halflings
Thinking Golum the Dwarf's reply, I decide to make changes to my race list:
Removed race: Vampire
Added race: Templates (aren't these also called Shapeshifters?)
Added sub-races to one above:
*Vampire
*Werewolf
*Wereboar
*Weretiger
*Wererat
Wererat may sound weird but think about it: wererat can sneak past enemies, reach plaeces which you can't get otherwise, poisons enemy. On the other hand wererat can't carry any items while in rat's form and are easier to kill by enemies.
I have also decided to add some puzzles in game. Here is one:
Town's fool tells you "The bird is everything, but do not forget lizard!" Later, you haveto choose between two swords. In first swords background information are mentioned bird. This sword is VERY powerful. In the seconds sword background is mentioned lizard. This sword is almost useless because it doesn't give almost any bonuses. After chosing you have to fight against hard enemy. The first sword doesn't do any damage to monster, but if you have remembered the fools words and have chose the second one, you haven't any problems. So all you have to do to get past monster, is to realy listen every word you hear, althought those seems to be stupid.
What do you think?
"As we all know, holy men were born during Christmas...
Like mr. Holopainen over there!"
- Marco Hietala, the bass player of Nightwish
Like mr. Holopainen over there!"
- Marco Hietala, the bass player of Nightwish
-
Galuf the Dwarf
- Posts: 3160
- Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 11:00 am
- Location: Connecticut, a place of open land, hills, forests,
- Contact:
Originally posted by Kipi
Nah, I want to add alignment system to make the game more realistic (you can't kill anybody without getting hated).
Thanks Malta Soron, I forgot Halflings
Thinking Golum the Dwarf's reply, I decide to make changes to my race list:
Removed race: Vampire
Added race: Templates (aren't these also called Shapeshifters?)
Added sub-races to one above:
*Vampire
*Werewolf
*Wereboar
*Weretiger
*Wererat
Wererat may sound weird but think about it: wererat can sneak past enemies, reach plaeces which you can't get otherwise, poisons enemy. On the other hand wererat can't carry any items while in rat's form and are easier to kill by enemies.
I have also decided to add some puzzles in game. Here is one:
Town's fool tells you "The bird is everything, but do not forget lizard!" Later, you haveto choose between two swords. In first swords background information are mentioned bird. This sword is VERY powerful. In the seconds sword background is mentioned lizard. This sword is almost useless because it doesn't give almost any bonuses. After chosing you have to fight against hard enemy. The first sword doesn't do any damage to monster, but if you have remembered the fools words and have chose the second one, you haven't any problems. So all you have to do to get past monster, is to realy listen every word you hear, althought those seems to be stupid.
What do you think?
1) Templates aren't a "sub-race." Any race or sub-race can be a lycanthrope or vampire, from a human to a dark elf or even an orc or ogre. In D&D, the template can be added somewhere along the way by various means.
2) Interesting puzzle.
3) And the name's Galuf, not Golum.
Dungeon Crawl Inc.: It's the most fun you can have without 3 midgets and a whip! Character stats made by your's truly!
Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
3) And the name's Galuf, not Golum.
Sorry, I was in kinda hurry when I wrote and I copied it from file, so I didn't check your name. I just remembered Golum. I think I've read too much Lord of the rings
I could change (again) my race list and add those Vampire etc. as sub-races.
EDIT: I ment that I wrote it in txt file and copied it here as soon as I was able to do it.
"As we all know, holy men were born during Christmas...
Like mr. Holopainen over there!"
- Marco Hietala, the bass player of Nightwish
Like mr. Holopainen over there!"
- Marco Hietala, the bass player of Nightwish
Well, you don't have to use the alignment system to let immoral actions have consequences (see Morrowind for example)... but it's your game .
I really like the wererat; sounds like my kind of character! What will be the characteristics of weretigers and wereboars?
How about adding others? Weremoose (+3 to bluntweapons), weredolphin (+2 points to swift swim), wereostrich (+1 to speed)... the possibilities are endless!!
.I really like the wererat; sounds like my kind of character! What will be the characteristics of weretigers and wereboars?
How about adding others? Weremoose (+3 to bluntweapons), weredolphin (+2 points to swift swim), wereostrich (+1 to speed)... the possibilities are endless!!
She says: Lou, it's the Beginning of a Great Adventure
-
Malta Soron
- Posts: 526
- Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:21 pm
- Location: Leiden
- Contact:
Originally posted by Kipi
Thinking Golum the Dwarf's reply, I decide to make changes to my race list:
Removed race: Vampire
Added race: Templates (aren't these also called Shapeshifters?)
Added sub-races to one above:
*Vampire
*Werewolf
*Wereboar
*Weretiger
*Wererat
You mean like Beorn in the Hobbit? I think so.
BTW: good puzzle!
What do you think of the were-virus?
Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.
- George Santayana
- George Santayana
Originally posted by Coot
How about adding others? Weremoose (+3 to bluntweapons), weredolphin (+2 points to swift swim), wereostrich (+1 to speed)... the possibilities are endless!!
well, I'd draw the line at werebutterflies...
regarding incredibly obscure puzzles, I'd make sure that the less obvious clues will be given to the player, bacause missing the horribly obscure clue altogether and then getting squished is fairly cruel and unusual game design. in the example, have the fool talk to you as you go to get the swords, and maybe you can get some rumors from other people that hint to the fool's connection to the swords or summat.
Here where the flattering and mendacious swarm
Of lying epitaths their secrets keep,
At last incapable of further harm
The lewd forefathers of the village sleep.
Of lying epitaths their secrets keep,
At last incapable of further harm
The lewd forefathers of the village sleep.