GameBanshee Forums

Quite a long time since my last post, but this is a too interesting topic.
As I understand the basic debate here is whether the fighters will outclass (=be better in solo play?) the spellcasters on the higher (21-) levels.
First, if we consider the power items for solo, almost any class could became invincible (Cloak of Mirroring, Staff of Magi, Cloak of Non-Detect, Carsomyr, Blacrazor, Ring of GAXX, Amulet of Power just to name the best ones from SoA). Also there are so many items with special abilities, that any class could became a reasonable "spellcaster".
On the other hand some uncapped spells could became very efficient on the high levels: eg. skull trap, holy smite. Not to mention the cheesy spells like project image, simulacrum or some 9th level spells.
About magic resistance and savings. Some lower resist spell (in a spell sequencer/ trigger) would easily brought down any enemy to almost 0%. Some higher level spells don't have saving (eg. maze, imprisonment, death spell against summons/low level enemies). Doom is stackable, but that is against single enemies, I'm also pretty sure that mages will get a stackable greater malison.
There is no question that multiple magic resistant enemies should be whacked. That is what Skeleton Warriors, Elementals or Mordenkainen's Swords are for.
Single special oppenents (like dragons) will be tough, they will surely have special abilites what we could "learn" only in the hard way.
If they improve the spellcasting AI, any high level spellcaster could be strong opponent, especially for solo.
But I think the hardest opponents could be combined humanoid parties (with enhanced spellcasting and party AI). I hope we could have too much challenge against them in solo, and we would need to use both warriors and spellcasters to work together in a full party.

Ten umberhulks *will* do serious damage to a high level party if you melee them, including a couple of deaths. There are not enough items in SoA to have a party with -10 AC and negative saves.

Death Spell works with no save against Umber Hulks. There is no saving throw against Death Spell.

Every infinity engine game allows you to rest anytime; I have no idea why this wouldn't be the case in ToB.

A solo level 17 mage can easily go 10/10 against any dragon in the game. Simulacrum, Mord's Sword, another summon, Spell Trigger: Lower Resist * 2 + Gr. Malison, then the Simulacrum and PC hit the dragon with Abi Dalzim scrolls. Using a Time Stop scroll makes it even faster. Dead dragon, a few rounds, no risk, no reloads, not even very cheesy (except for wasting several scrolls). As soon as the PC gets time stop and chain contingency...

Fighters are great (and practically necessary) against drow, mind flayers, and isolated vampires compared to mages, but the tougher liches have combat protections.

As for when multiple horrid wiltings are useful...Twisted Rune anyone? Undead? The "other high-level parties like your own" scenario which is supposed to be very common in ToB?

As for your request for a scenario where a fighter has trouble that the mage can dump damage spells in, not much gives a high level fighter trouble with ideal equipment in SoA, and not much (but admittedly more, specifically mind flayers, demons, and drow) gives a mage trouble either with planning (but hey, there's always what I do--run past them with Staff of the Magi). Drizzt's party, maybe, or Twisted Rune, maybe. But if we see a few adventuring parties with several level 25 fighters, and we probably will, watch out

it all comes to the point who casts the first time stop...

spellcasters are the only ones who get better after about lvl 25(what good is a -20 THAC0, if you first have to walk right to the mages face? Yes you have all goody equipment, weapons, and stuff, but you can't get through 8 stone skins with a surprise attack without the mage notice it. (i don't want to get back to the ENORMOUSLYHUGEMAMBODEBATE who'd win a one on one match, all i'm saying is i hope the AI's improved so much it's not possible to use BS/run around corner, hide in shadows/BS and so on. Or casting "beneficial" spells on tough enemies before they turn hostile.

I have to agree with Kovi i'd also like to face battles in ToB that are impossible for any character to solo at.

[ 05-17-2001: Message edited by: Locke Da'averan ]

well, what do we get out of this then? i would say fighter/cleric is the best then, since "fighters dont get better after level 25"

In the end of the game my berzerker/cleric did ALL battles, including big demons, all alone, with the exceptions of battles involving mages. And 10 umber hulks would certianly not be any problem.

The only thing that can hurt a fighter cleric is magic, and since he has spells to protect himself against magic, as well as enrage in my case, he is invulnerable more or less to magic, as well as physical damage. Any trouble is solved with a summoning spell.