GameBanshee Forums

me0w how did you hit dice in IWD II?
Winter sorrow, Wrath-Of-Egg and Heidrek I liked some of your ideas!!!
Heidrek i liked your idea but does it make a good character in HoF?
I was also think of making an Paladin of Helm 3/ Fighter 7/sorcerer X this way I could benefit from the extra feats of the fighter and the special abilities of the paly.Maybe:
STR 16 DEX 10 CON 16 WIS 10 INT 10 CHA 18
or
STR 10 DEX 16 CON 16 WIS 10 INT 10 CHA 18

What do you think?

[QUOTE=Ennian Kether]I was also think of making an Paladin of Helm 3/ Fighter 7/sorcerer X this way I could benefit from the extra feats of the fighter and the special abilities of the paly.Maybe:
STR 16 DEX 10 CON 16 WIS 10 INT 10 CHA 18
or
STR 10 DEX 16 CON 16 WIS 10 INT 10 CHA 18

What do you think? [/QUOTE]
With Paladin 3/Fighter 7/Sorcerer X, you'll get hit with an XP penalty. In order to avoid it all classes, except for the favored must be within one of each other. So I would consider Paladin 3/Fighter 4/Sorcerer X. 4 Fighter levels gives you access to Weapon Specialization.

With 16,16,18,10,10,10 starting stats I guessing you're choosing the Aasimar for you Pal/Fig/Sorc build. In that case you need to keep Fig and Sorc levels within one of eachother or else suffer the XP penalty: Aasimars have paladin as their favoured class.

Personally, I think you should forget the paladin. The main advantage is at least +4 bonus to saves and immunity to fear. If you're a front line warrior, these bonuses are important. But if you chuck arrows & bolts and spells from afar while invisible behind summoned minions, I think it becomes less important. You're main goal should be to get mord's sword asap. The fighter should be there for the extra feats and ability to use some nice weapons and long range weaponry.

Actually I think the best multiclass is a cleric / sorceror. Should be good for HOF but never tried one (don't know why). I'd probably use sub 10 int to get dex up. Maybe Str 10, Dex 14, Con 10, Int 6, Wis 18, Cha 18. Not sure which cleric domain to use. Anyone any ideas? I really like using the Bane cleric. Might work well for a sorceror with good enchantment/disabling spells because both cleric and sorc spells would benefit from double spell focus in enchantment (would make the early game much easier). Also, Bane has Gate at only level 7 (I think). The strategy would be to summon loads, buff everyone, send troops in, dominate the enemy, perhaps chuck a few fireballs, heal allies..etc

[QUOTE=Ennian Kether]me0w how did you hit dice in IWD II? [/QUOTE]


"but I just created an icewind dale1"

Didn't do it in IWD2, but don't you still roll? (I hardly played IWD2, just looked at it, and started off on #1 like 2 days ago)

I just roll for like 2 minutes then get something nice like this.

I always end up with my protagonist with rolls of 4 18's and 7-10 in the other stats.

3rd edition D&D rules (The ones that IWD2 uses) don't work with rolling your primary attributes like STR, DEX etc. You just have a fixed amount of points to put into these skills.

@winter sorrow
How would you split the leveling for a Cleric/Sorcerer? You can get it to work from a stats view, but splitting a mage levels is difficult, I would think. Fireball is level 4, so that would require 8 levels of Sorcerer and Gate is 7th level which requires 13 levels of Cleric. If you did a 50/50 split, all you're going to wind up with in the beginning is a bunch of low level spells. Personally, I don't see the advantage of multiclassing with more than one mage class. Also, which stat would increase on level ups?

[QUOTE=Ennian Kether]
Heidrek i liked your idea but does it make a good character in HoF?
I was also think of making an Paladin of Helm 3/ Fighter 7/sorcerer X this way I could benefit from the extra feats of the fighter and the special abilities of the paly.Maybe:
STR 16 DEX 10 CON 16 WIS 10 INT 10 CHA 18
or
STR 10 DEX 16 CON 16 WIS 10 INT 10 CHA 18

What do you think? [/QUOTE]

Actually I thought up that idea with HoF in mind. I'm playing HoF now and have just started the Dragons Eye. What I have found is that in HoF mode the only offensive spells that are worth casting are those without saving throws (Malison, Power Word: Blind, Great Shout), those with added difficulty to save against (Chaos), or high level spells (level 7 plus, sometimes level 6 if you have GSF in the school and maxed out spell casting stats to inc. the DC). Anything else will almost always be saved against. Confusion,Slow, Horror, Hold Person, Emotion: Fear etc. aren't even worth casting. Fireball etc will always be saved against, and against rogues, evaded. This means that unless you plan on being an 18th level plus spell caster you may as well not bother with offensive spells.

You can however still get alot of use out of the defensive spells available at lower levels. Mirror Image still rocks, stoneskin is useful too if cast in advance. Improved Invis. is great, particularly on a character who has Sneak Attacks. Grease still slows oncoming opponents, even if they save (which they will), allowing an extra few missile attacks before they get to melee range. Dispel Magic lets you save other disabled party members. Emot.: Hope is always useful and Fireshield is like an enhanced Death Armour effectivelty allowing you to dish out alot of retributive damage. You will get hit in HoF mode - alot.

In my party I have a dual wielding Bard/Rogue who acts in a similar capacity. In Normal mode his Chromatic Orbs rocked, and his other disabling spells were brilliant. In HoF mode, you may as well never cast these.

His new routine is as fighter with tricks. Unfortunately I gave him only 10 str as I planned to use him as an archer, so I'm boosting his Str with itmes etc. Even so he is still very capable, using Mirror Image and Imp. Invis. prior to combat or in combat, Improved Haste or Emotion Hope to buff the party (and his damage), while the cleric casts Recitation. His fav. trick is to mirror image then go into melee. next rond he should still have some images, so he Great Shout's his opponent for a guaranteed 1 round of stunning. Then goes to town and recasts mirror image when necessary. He's good, but the problem is investing all those points in Charisma which have no combat use. Had I put them into Str or Con he'd be better at his new job. The other flaw is that to get him to cast Wail of the Banshee he needs 26 levels of Bard. This leaves few other levels for rogue limiting his sneak attack. I have a Sorc. and a Wizard in the party who can both cast Wail, but the thought of having 3 Wails cast simultaneously, or 2 and a Malison is just too good to pass up - not much survives that.

The build above will not have these flaws. He will be a combat oriented character whose other classes provide versatility and enchance his combat ability. In Normal mode he can funtion as either a tank or Wizard early, moving into his other classes in the mid game and finally really coming into his own in Hof. He should end up around Fighter15/Wizard8/Rogue7. I took a similar tack with my Fighter/Druid, after Fighter8 I started taking Druid levels. Once he gets to Druid 15 so we can cast Elemental Leigon I'll start giving him more Fighter levels to boost his feats. In the mean time he has still funtioned well as a front line fighter, slowly building his reserve of spellcasting power until he is now quite formidible.

Heidrek I am feeling inclide to your type of character but which race do you chose for your Fig/wiz/rog?half-elf, human?As I said before i do hate to put abilities below 10 but i think i should put charisma at 3 saying in the character's biography that he was a lonely wolf lolol!!!!
maybe:
STR 17 DEX 16 CON 16 WIS 10 INT 14 CHA

@neocool00

Fireball is level 3 not 4 i think - if so, that requires 6 levels not 8 of sorceror / mage levelling. I have been taking this for granted so please correct if I remember wrongly.

Yes, gate is level 7 for a bane cleric. I'd probably level up evenly until maybe reaching cleric 7 / sorc 8 then continue to advance as a cleric until i get Gate. Of course, this would be in a very small party / solo and with the intention of continuing in HOF mode. Once I get Gate I think I'd advance sorc levels until even again at 13/13. Then continue to the end with even advancement. Or maybe just advance all the way in either class. Your call really. I think you need level 14+ to get mord sword (don't really recall the exact level). But then I don't think you can get level 9 cleric spells once you've taken 14+ sorc level (with the 30 level cap) - though Gate seems to be the only really useful level 9 cleric spell in the late HOF stages. But if you don't reach level 15 cleric you miss useful cleric spells e.g. mass heal.

Ability upgrades - I'd go equally with Wis and Cha at first then pump the rest into either one depending one how I want to advnace my cleric / sorc in the late stages of the game.

I'm pretty interested in going with a cleric / sorc next (I did say I hadn't gone with one before). Either solo or as part of a 2-3 member party, so anyone's thoughts would be welcome on how to make it work well. Am aware that a multiclass is not the most effective - but they are more interesting

[QUOTE=Ennian Kether]Heidrek I am feeling inclide to your type of character but which race do you chose for your Fig/wiz/rog?half-elf, human?As I said before i do hate to put abilities below 10 but i think i should put charisma at 3 saying in the character's biography that he was a lonely wolf lolol!!!!
maybe:
STR 17 DEX 16 CON 16 WIS 10 INT 14 CHA[/QUOTE]

I'd definitely go Human for a triple class. The bonus 1st level Feat is very useful, particularly if you take Fighter for your 1st level. That allows 3 feats on creation. Power Attack, Cleave and Rapid Shot perhaps or the two dual wielding Feats and Rapid shot, so you always have 2 attacks per round melee or missile. The extra skill points a Human gets at level up are a bit unnecessary with this character but still useful.

If you really don't want to strip your wisdom I'd agree with those stats. Put your first extra point into Str to bring you up to 18. Might want to drop Dex by 2 and up Con to 18. From my experience, the extra HP are more important then the AC bonus - you're going to get hit no matter what, at least you will be able to take the punishment. You can take Dodge as a feat a little later and use heavy armour until you start taking Wiz. levels. Extra HP never hurt, especially in HoF!

I'm actually thinking of making up this character myself!

[QUOTE=Ennian Kether]What about this one:
Male drow Paly mystra 3/wizard X
STR 10 DEX 10 CON 16 WIS 10 INT 18 CHA 16
[/QUOTE]

You'll need higher dexterity!!! Dex 16, Cha 10, for instance. Cha is less important, but Dex you will need to cast your spells reliably!

Especially if you choose the rogue/wizard (which I'd highly recommend), Dex will come in handy for the thief as well (and for using missile weapons, too)!

Brynn i put cha so high because of the paly class!What about spells, which are the best in HoF beside wail of the bashee?And weapons?

Best Spells:

Wiz/Sorc:
Offensive - Symbol: Hoplessness, Finger of Death, Malison, Horid Wilting, Delayed Blast Fireball, Power Word: Blind, Chain Lighning, Mord. Sword!!. Hands down Symbol: Hoplessness is the best crowd control spell in the game. Only problem is that it's all schools so Spec. Wizards can't cast it!

Defensive - Mirror Image, Improved Invis., Stoneskin, Blink, Blur.

Buff - Emotion: Hope, Mass Haste, Executioners Eyes.

Bard:
Offenseive - Great Shout, Power Word: Silence. PW Silence is handy to disrupt spellcasting as it has 1 casting time and no save. Dismissal is a good Bard spell as it gives you an 1 casting time instant Kill against summoned creatures with a decent chance of sucess as it's DC is based on your level.

Defensive: As Wiz/Sorc.

Buff- As Wiz/Sorc. also Shades is a good summon for Bards. Healing Circle and Cure Critical Wounds are good ideas.

Druid/Cleric:
Offensive: Symbol: Hoplessness, Greater Command, Holy Word, Tremor, Destruction, Finger of Death, Call Lightning, Static Charge, Sunray, Sol's Searing Orb. Thorn Spray.
Sol's orb has a chance to blind as well as damage and is good against undead, which you need as your noraml crowd control spells like Greater Command and Symbol won't work. Sunray is even better. It Blinds, hurts undead badly and lasts 4 rounds doing Damage each round.

Defensive: Barkskin, Ironskins, Divine Aura, Defensive Harmony.
To be honest though, these aren't that good. You will get hit no matter what your armour class. Arcane casters actually hvae better defensive spells!

Buff: Hands down Recitation wins here. +2 to all your attacks and more importantly Damage, but the real bonus is the -2 it gives to enemy saving throws and hit/damage rolls with no save. It's a combination Malison and Emotion: Hope, but is centred on the caster. Still if timed right, you can have one of these, and a Malison go off just before your Wail of the Banshee resolves. This will doublle the number of Kills you get from a Wail.

The real strength of the Divine Casters is the ability to Heal and Mass Heal. Keep your Divine caster out of combat and these two spells will win you more battles than anything else. Your 400 HP barbarian about to die? Activate his Rage ability to give him a quick HP boost, then have your Cleric/Druid Heal him. Heal is casting speed 1, so it can almost be cast instantly and suddely your Tank is on full HP again and Raging. If your whole team is taking a beating, have your Divine caster cast Mass Heal as his main job. Even if he does nothing but cast Mass Heals he'll wind the fight for you.

In short, the keys to a good spell are: Fast casting time, area affects that don't hurt your team, disabling affects like Fear and Hoplessness and a high level or difficult save so they can actually get past a save. Anything under 6th level will routinely be saved against by most opponents despite GSF in that school. Level 6 and 7 have a chance of getting through, particularly if the opponent is Malisoned, Recitationed or Doomed (or all 3!).

Where is bard spell Vail of Banshee and wiz/sorc spell Vail of banshee.. best spell in game... combined with malisson..

[QUOTE=Ennian Kether]Brynn i put cha so high because of the paly class!What about spells, which are the best in HoF beside wail of the bashee?And weapons?[/QUOTE]

Ah, OK, I was having the thief/mage on my mind, sorry. Are you sure you need the paly? I'm serious, you'll have problems using your different abilities - can't cast in armour, can't fight without it... It's really inconvenient to take it off and put it on again hundred times in battle...

[QUOTE=Brynn]Ah, OK, I was having the thief/mage on my mind, sorry. Are you sure you need the paly? I'm serious, you'll have problems using your different abilities - can't cast in armour, can't fight without it... It's really inconvenient to take it off and put it on again hundred times in battle...[/QUOTE]


There is armor called ''Chain of drakkas'' having realy high Dex bonus is quite nice...

And there is gauntlets that gives you 15/+3 damage resistance..(HoF)
And in normal there is if i remember correct 10/+2 damage resistance..

And there is also +5 AC gauntlets..

True, and an excellent robe with great AC bonus. I was weraing them all, but still, my AC never got lower than -2, while my fighter's were -11, and that's quite a difference...

[QUOTE=Brynn]True, and an excellent robe with great AC bonus. I was weraing them all, but still, my AC never got lower than -2, while my fighter's were -11, and that's quite a difference...[/QUOTE]


WTF? are talking about IWD1? becuse in IWD2 10 is basic AC an dthen it starts to rise..

Oh... Yes, you're right, it's IWD I. Sorry, I'm a bit confused (I'm about to finish IWD I now, that's why my head is so full of its rules and items )

The Armoured Arcana feats can be used to offset Arcane Failure until you can get the Chain of Drakkas (best armour in the game). Or you can use Bracers of Defense and Cloaks/Rings of protection to keep your AC reasonable.

To be hinest though, the Armour side of things isn't really that big of a deal. You'll get hit in combat no matter what in HoF. You're probably better off using armour that gives you damage reduction or stat increases than armour that gives you better AC. For the record my fav's are:

Armour:

Chain of Drakkas (of course)
Cornugon Hide Armour (for the 10/+2 damage reduction)

Weapons:
Golden Heart of ..... (gives Haste, Free movement +2 Str and +2 Dex! and it's a +5 Longsword as well!!!!)

Dwelnars Sword (name might be wrong): Greatsword +5 that ignores Armour and Shields, effectively meaning you almost always hit with it. This allows you to use Power Attacks frrely for max. carnage!

Brilliant Shortsword+5 for the same reasons as above, a great shortsword.

HoF Wyvern stinger: Seriously! this is non magical but has a 99% chance of making opponents save or take 8 Hp poison damage per second for 6 seconds with a good DC. My bard is Dual wielding these at the moment for fun against Yaun-Ti and after a round or so has usually poised them. A sucessful poisoning with this weapons means 48 damage plus 1-4 plus strength over 6 seconds. Even my fighters with 26 strngth and greatswords +5 etc. can't do this. It's also a small blade so duals well!!

Holy Swizernian Hammer for it's anti undead abilities, it often either blinds or disrupts them on a sucessful hit.

Bastard Sword of Heroism: When I find this I will Dual it! Keen Bastard sword +3 that does an extra 3-18 slashing damage on a sucessful hit? Sign me up!

Saga of the Wandering Sky: Greatsword+5 that Dooms opponent on a sucessful hit - no save. Very handy, particularly as it drops their saving throws by 2, softening them up for a Wail or Symbol: Hoplessness.