Were you surprised by the results of the US elections? (NO spam)
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asurademon
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I am American, I don't understand it (Bush winning) any better than you people whom aren't. Most people I know hate Bush, and even out of the few Republicans I know most voted for Kerry. I guess California is getting to be more and more like a separate country from the rest of the USA culturaly speaking, and I think that will only continue to be more and more true. I have heard there are people whom think we should be our own country, and I can't blame them at this point, though I doubt that could work if anything because the USA wouldn't let us (I'm going to look up information for this on the internet and see if any such movement really exists). I went to school today, and everyone student and professor alike was depressed and totally bashing Bush. Both Bush and Kerry are too conservative in my opinion, but I'd much rather deal with Kerry. Myself and many I know feel very threatened by Bush. My only guess to as why Bush won is that people outside CA in most other states have very very different ideas on how things should be done. Many states have populations that are made up of a lot of very conservative Christians.
Previous, it seemed to me that a majority of Americans were simply misguided, misinformed, or disenfranchised. However, in light of what has occurred, it is difficult not to believe that a majority of Americans are ... there is no diplomatic way to say it, so perhaps it is better left unsaid.
I remember a passage from the 2nd book of the Dune triology where it explores Paul's fear not of his enemies per se, but of the unrelenting mass and inertia of the blind, the lost, and the entitled. I now understand his sentiments perfectly.
I remember a passage from the 2nd book of the Dune triology where it explores Paul's fear not of his enemies per se, but of the unrelenting mass and inertia of the blind, the lost, and the entitled. I now understand his sentiments perfectly.
Those who will play with kitties must expect to be scratched.
Many are cold; few are frozen.
Absence is to love what wind is to fire... it extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.
Many are cold; few are frozen.
Absence is to love what wind is to fire... it extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.
I was surprised. Though I must say I wasn't nearly as surprised that he won as by the fact that he won the popular vote. I think this should be a reminder that the US is a hugely religious, largely right wing country, despite the left wing Hollywood and, in a way, gamebanshee. You don't hear much from all the people not on the liberal coast.
I personaly don't think there's as much of a fundamental difference between Kerry and Bush as people say. For me, the main detraction in Bush has never been his actions, but the fact that they are not his actions. It is deeply troubling to me that he is a puppet. While I do think a lot of what we're hearing is actually Bush (like anything regarding morality or religion), and he's seems a lot smarter and infinately more serious than he did 4 years ago, I voted Kerry just because that as unpresidential as he may seem, he comes off as a staunchly independant man. So that he'll mess up tons, but it'll be him doing it. He doesn't have Cheney pulling the strings. He strikes me, as well as Edwards, to be an honest human being. I respect him in a way I could never respect Bush (though I do have some respect for him), and I thought most of the American people thought the same.
My 2 cents.
I personaly don't think there's as much of a fundamental difference between Kerry and Bush as people say. For me, the main detraction in Bush has never been his actions, but the fact that they are not his actions. It is deeply troubling to me that he is a puppet. While I do think a lot of what we're hearing is actually Bush (like anything regarding morality or religion), and he's seems a lot smarter and infinately more serious than he did 4 years ago, I voted Kerry just because that as unpresidential as he may seem, he comes off as a staunchly independant man. So that he'll mess up tons, but it'll be him doing it. He doesn't have Cheney pulling the strings. He strikes me, as well as Edwards, to be an honest human being. I respect him in a way I could never respect Bush (though I do have some respect for him), and I thought most of the American people thought the same.
My 2 cents.
"Veni,Vidi,vici!"
(I came,I saw,I conquered!) Julius Ceasar
(I came,I saw,I conquered!) Julius Ceasar
[QUOTE=Morlock]I respect him in a way I could never respect Bush (though I do have some respect for him), and I thought most of the American people thought the same.[/QUOTE]
Never said, but I feel that respect plays alot into how some vote in the South. Remarks like hick and hillbilly will make people turn their eyes and votes. Add to this the ability to "use them big words" and you have a almost automatic turn off. Bill Clinton didn't suffer from this (while his wife does) or at least he was able to curtail the outburst.
The ability to get a point across without having to use a dictionary will get you further with people who spend their life without having to use such words. This is not to say these people are dumb, they are just set in their ways.
(Not to pick on Fable
)
"Demonization of one's opponents is so much a part of the US political and religious consciousness '
Would go over better around my area as..
Both sides try to slander the other side and this is just part of how the US works.
Would you say this puts forth the same meaning?
Also.....
The mind set of some in the South seems to be, the bigger the word, the more the person is looking down on the South. I can only think this comes from being the losers of the Civil War and the aftereffects of "Carpetbaggers" coming into the South. (<I will explain my thoughts behind this is needed)
Never said, but I feel that respect plays alot into how some vote in the South. Remarks like hick and hillbilly will make people turn their eyes and votes. Add to this the ability to "use them big words" and you have a almost automatic turn off. Bill Clinton didn't suffer from this (while his wife does) or at least he was able to curtail the outburst.
The ability to get a point across without having to use a dictionary will get you further with people who spend their life without having to use such words. This is not to say these people are dumb, they are just set in their ways.
(Not to pick on Fable
)"Demonization of one's opponents is so much a part of the US political and religious consciousness '
Would go over better around my area as..
Both sides try to slander the other side and this is just part of how the US works.
Would you say this puts forth the same meaning?
Also.....
The mind set of some in the South seems to be, the bigger the word, the more the person is looking down on the South. I can only think this comes from being the losers of the Civil War and the aftereffects of "Carpetbaggers" coming into the South. (<I will explain my thoughts behind this is needed)
"Vile and evil, yes. But, That's Weasel" From BS's book, MD 20/20: Fine Wines of Rocky Flop.
[QUOTE=asurademon]I have heard there are people whom think we should be our own country, and I can't blame them at this point, though I doubt that could work if anything because the USA wouldn't let us [/QUOTE]
This was tried once and the aftereffects can still be seen on the side who lost.
"In your hands, my dissatisfied fellow countrymen, and not in mine, is the momentous issue of civil war. The government will not assail you.... You have no oath registered in Heaven to destroy the government, while I shall have the most solemn one to preserve, protect and defend it." Abraham Lincoln
This was tried once and the aftereffects can still be seen on the side who lost.
"In your hands, my dissatisfied fellow countrymen, and not in mine, is the momentous issue of civil war. The government will not assail you.... You have no oath registered in Heaven to destroy the government, while I shall have the most solemn one to preserve, protect and defend it." Abraham Lincoln
"Vile and evil, yes. But, That's Weasel" From BS's book, MD 20/20: Fine Wines of Rocky Flop.
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fable
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[QUOTE=Weasel](Not to pick on Fable )
"Demonization of one's opponents is so much a part of the US political and religious consciousness '
Would go over better around my area as..
Both sides try to slander the other side and this is just part of how the US works.
Would you say this puts forth the same meaning?
[/QUOTE]
Nope. I meant demonization--the process that leads people to see other human beings as literally something less than human. It was demonization, for instance, that led one evangelical born-again Christian (by no means, all people like this) to see doctors performing abortions as animals fit for killing--which he did. As much can be said for a member of the Cato Institute who was interviewed a year ago, and repeatedly said that terrorists are simply cancers that must be cut out of the body. This is not simply slander. It's a view of others that relegates them to the status of animals or cancers, and allows them to ultimately be treated much as Hitler treated Jews, Gypsies, and homosexuals.
So if you wanted to simplify what I wrote, when I wrote:
"Demonization of one's opponents is so much a part of the US political and religious consciousness,"
I suspect the best you could do is to write,
"Demonization of your enemies is a big part of politics and religion in the US."
By the way, I have to dumb down things a lot when I write articles.
)"Demonization of one's opponents is so much a part of the US political and religious consciousness '
Would go over better around my area as..
Both sides try to slander the other side and this is just part of how the US works.
Would you say this puts forth the same meaning?
[/QUOTE]
Nope.
I meant demonization--the process that leads people to see other human beings as literally something less than human. It was demonization, for instance, that led one evangelical born-again Christian (by no means, all people like this) to see doctors performing abortions as animals fit for killing--which he did. As much can be said for a member of the Cato Institute who was interviewed a year ago, and repeatedly said that terrorists are simply cancers that must be cut out of the body. This is not simply slander. It's a view of others that relegates them to the status of animals or cancers, and allows them to ultimately be treated much as Hitler treated Jews, Gypsies, and homosexuals.So if you wanted to simplify what I wrote, when I wrote:
"Demonization of one's opponents is so much a part of the US political and religious consciousness,"
I suspect the best you could do is to write,
"Demonization of your enemies is a big part of politics and religion in the US."
By the way, I have to dumb down things a lot when I write articles.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
[QUOTE=fable]By the way, I have to dumb down things a lot when I write articles. [/QUOTE]
LOL And this is from living up North, imagine down here in the South.
I guess you could say the approach has more to do with how a person running is taken in the Southern US. Gore had this problem and Kerry didn't improve on it. Given how the election went, Edwards (IMHO) could had beaten Bush or at the very least taken some Southern states (Florida).
[/QUOTE]LOL
And this is from living up North, imagine down here in the South. I guess you could say the approach has more to do with how a person running is taken in the Southern US. Gore had this problem and Kerry didn't improve on it. Given how the election went, Edwards (IMHO) could had beaten Bush or at the very least taken some Southern states (Florida).
"Vile and evil, yes. But, That's Weasel" From BS's book, MD 20/20: Fine Wines of Rocky Flop.
[QUOTE=Weasel]
"Demonization of one's opponents is so much a part of the US political and religious consciousness '
Would go over better around my area as..
Both sides try to slander the other side and this is just part of how the US works.
Would you say this puts forth the same meaning?
[/QUOTE]
Now, I realise that I am hardly a fit representative of the American south and English is not even my first language, but this is how I view the two sentences:
Demonisation: a highly specific way of depicting something as fundamentally different from "us", which allows objectification to a degree where the life of this other is worthless - it is even a Good Thing to remove it, since it is "unnatural". This strategy has been used in both US and Soviet military in order to teach soldiers to overcome the spontaneous emotional resistance most healthy people feel towards killing another. The strategy became infamous to the general population with the Vietnam war. "Dehumanisation" is the closest synonym I can think of.
Slander: generally bad-mouthing others, not at all the same as the sophisticated mind control strategy demonisation is.
part of the US political and religious consciousness: the use of the term consciousness, denotes that this may or may not be an illusion, ie not reflecting any objective truth. Also, political and religious indicates in what way people are influenced, and thus inherently contains a suggestion of targets for possible future interventions if one would like to change this situation.
just part of how the US works: contain significantly less information, and denotes an acceptance for the current situation as an unchangable fact (in the same way as "it's just how she is" if you are describing a person).
So to me, these two sentences are very different. The problem with big words is that they actually represent abstract concepts and thus are difficult to replace with a single, shorter word. However, I certainly think communication of political ideas and their consequences is a prerequisite for democracy to work.
And please, explain the thoughts behind your "Carpetbaggers" comment
"Demonization of one's opponents is so much a part of the US political and religious consciousness '
Would go over better around my area as..
Both sides try to slander the other side and this is just part of how the US works.
Would you say this puts forth the same meaning?
[/QUOTE]
Now, I realise that I am hardly a fit representative of the American south and English is not even my first language, but this is how I view the two sentences:
Demonisation: a highly specific way of depicting something as fundamentally different from "us", which allows objectification to a degree where the life of this other is worthless - it is even a Good Thing to remove it, since it is "unnatural". This strategy has been used in both US and Soviet military in order to teach soldiers to overcome the spontaneous emotional resistance most healthy people feel towards killing another. The strategy became infamous to the general population with the Vietnam war. "Dehumanisation" is the closest synonym I can think of.
Slander: generally bad-mouthing others, not at all the same as the sophisticated mind control strategy demonisation is.
part of the US political and religious consciousness: the use of the term consciousness, denotes that this may or may not be an illusion, ie not reflecting any objective truth. Also, political and religious indicates in what way people are influenced, and thus inherently contains a suggestion of targets for possible future interventions if one would like to change this situation.
just part of how the US works: contain significantly less information, and denotes an acceptance for the current situation as an unchangable fact (in the same way as "it's just how she is" if you are describing a person).
So to me, these two sentences are very different. The problem with big words is that they actually represent abstract concepts and thus are difficult to replace with a single, shorter word. However, I certainly think communication of political ideas and their consequences is a prerequisite for democracy to work.
And please, explain the thoughts behind your "Carpetbaggers" comment
"There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance." - Hippocrates
Moderator of Planescape: Torment, Diablo I & II and Dungeon Siege forums
Was I surprised, no not really. I had hoped that Kerry would win, but alas it wasn't going to happen. When you have a conservative and sadly popular news channel (FOXNews) and numerous radio personalities backing the Republicans it makes their job just a little bit easier.
Reminds me of one of the Simpson's episode in which Bart defaces the American flag and the whole family gets sent to jail. It has a scene in which Marge discovers that the 'last Democrat supporter' has been jailed to suppress his political voice along side a variety of celebrities such as Sarandon and Penn.
Reminds me of one of the Simpson's episode in which Bart defaces the American flag and the whole family gets sent to jail. It has a scene in which Marge discovers that the 'last Democrat supporter' has been jailed to suppress his political voice along side a variety of celebrities such as Sarandon and Penn.
!