Leather

Macleod1701 · Post by **Macleod1701** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:22 am

[QUOTE=dragon wench]

I'm really not sure that is an image any of us needed, though at least you don't have a trenchcoat!

[/QUOTE]

Ugh did you have to bring that image into my mind. Quick I need therapy!
And on another tangent I must get a new leather coat.

frogus23 · Post by **frogus23** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:45 am

I think the use of leather in bondage etc is just because of its perversity in such uses...

Leather's not comfortable at the best of times, and against the skin, inside, in the hot, while having sex....is just wrong

Which is the appeal to those with a self-consciously 'perverse' sexuality.

I don't buy any Freudian subconscious bestiality theory...this does not account for the popularity of PVC & chainmail among bonders...

Shai Hulud · Post by **Shai Hulud** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 7:33 am

@dragon wench

I know I don't write all that often, but I must thank you for rolling me over 100 posts in an interesting thread and not something like word association.

Macleod1701 · Post by **Macleod1701** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 7:57 am

Thats definately off topic shai

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:04 am

[QUOTE=dragon wench]

I'm really not sure that is an image any of us needed, though at least you don't have a trenchcoat!

[/QUOTE]

Well, it's something of an upperclass black leather trenchcoat: a rare clothing indulgence on my part. But if it makes things any better for you, I don't have on multiple rings, large gold neckchains, sunglasses, or a 40's hat. Oh, and I have clothes on under the leather coat, too.

I don't buy any Freudian subconscious bestiality theory...

Neither do most psychiatrists, these days. Freud has pretty much been tossed out as basing a lot of his theories on his own personal hangups, and making them universals. Of course, that doesn't stop pop culture for still using these.

Macleod1701 · Post by **Macleod1701** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:15 am

Just because we eat the meat of animals and wear their skins doesn't mean we want to engage them in sexual acts. Yuck! Freud was one sick twisted puppy!

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:36 am

[QUOTE=Macleod1701]Just because we eat the meat of animals and wear their skins doesn't mean we want to engage them in sexual acts. Yuck! Freud was one sick twisted puppy![/QUOTE]

Freud was thinking subconscious, only, but since (by definition) the Freudian subconscious is beyond conscious control or cultural restrictions, Freud could deposit any fantasy at all in there and claim it for fact. Unfortunately, the soft sciences have sometimes fostered individuals who spent too much time with self-referential systems. Freud's theories are far from the worst.

Macleod1701 · Post by **Macleod1701** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:46 am

If Freuds aren't the worst then please don't elaborate any further I've just had lunch.

Speaking of lunch, (a BLT) why don't we were pig skin coats, or goat?

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:06 am

Pig skins don't take well to the leathering process. I suspect goat skins were used as leather clothes once, but since they're associated these days with lower class origins, they aren't made into clothes.

Macleod1701 · Post by **Macleod1701** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:09 am

It's probably a stigma thing, I personally wouldn't want to buy a goat skin coat but for the life of me don't know why. I blame advertising!

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 5:47 pm

Vicsum]Running around naked gets me arrested and I generally feel cold during the winter [/quote] What about running around naked indoors? :D [quote=Locke]krhm wrote:
Certainly not in the Silence-of-lambs-way! I am convinced it is much nicer on you...

Personally, I really do not at all understand the sexual loading of a clothing material which is equally common to jeans or cotton. All materials have their characteristics, silk, velvet, nylon, cotton, whatever...Maybe it's because I live in a country where everybody, from kids to 80-year old ladies use leather jackets and coats because of the weather. My grandmother always use to wear black leather jackes and coats in the spring and autumn. I don't think I know one single person who doesn't own a leather jacket/coat.

CM]Leather isn't that important any more as the image of a metrosexual guy in some designer clothes. Atleast that is the image in Europe from what i see. [/quote] Yep wrote:I don't buy any Freudian subconscious bestiality theory...this does not account for the popularity of PVC & chainmail among bonders...

Nobody except some Latin American shrinks and artist find Freudian sexuality theory interesting

Associations to "the animal side" of humans (oh how I hate that expression) concerning leather, could however well have developed aside from PVC and latex fetischism. Mind you, leather fetischism has been around from much longer than the other two, and they don't necessarily belong to the same groups of paraphilias, although there is an overlap. PVC, chailmail and leather are all common in BDSM circles, but leather is a common as a sole fetisch also, and you have the special leather groups like The Leather Men etc.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:58 am

Personally, I really do not at all understand the sexual loading of a clothing material which is equally common to jeans or cotton.

CE, the availability of a fabric has never played into its "sexiness," as far as I can tell. It's a matter of senses: touch, smell and sight. Well, that, and advertising agencies who use visuals to reinforce images of sex/slight danger/youth they wish associated with leather so young people will buy it.

Frankly, I think tight leather looks very bad, unless its extremely well and individually fitted to the buyer's body. Leather creases and rumples easily. By contrast, various cotton and polyester blends flow easier. But films that want to make a hero or heroine look "baaad" invariably buy into and reinforce the PR images of form-fitting black leather jeans, never bothering to tell the audience that said jeans were hand-tailored for that actor.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:51 am

[QUOTE=fable]CE, the availability of a fabric has never played into its "sexiness," as far as I can tell. It's a matter of senses: touch, smell and sight. Well, that, and advertising agencies who use visuals to reinforce images of sex/slight danger/youth they wish associated with leather so young people will buy it.[/QUOTE]

In order for an attribution to stay conditioned, you must be continuously exposed repeatedly to the paired association, or you must avoid it in order too keep the conditioning. If you are presented with leather without the sexiness, the conditioning will dissolve after a while. (Just like Pavlov's dogs, if you ring the bell without giving them food, their salivation response to the bell will cease after a while.)

Maybe it is different in the US, but over here all ads for cloths are playing on sex, youth and politically correct amount of "risk taking behaviour" regardless or fabric and since leather is so common in all shapes, for all kind of people, the sexual loading (if there ever was one) is not maintained. Fetischists provide themselves with reinforcement by repeatadly having sex that includes their fetisch.

ik911 · Post by **ik911** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:54 am

[QUOTE=fable]Personally, I really do not at all understand the sexual loading of a clothing material which is equally common to jeans or cotton.

CE, the availability of a fabric has never played into its "sexiness," as far as I can tell. [/QUOTE]

Yes it does. Something unique or rare is indeed often regarded attractive. So availability certainly plays an important role in that.
That's also why trends occur: everybody wants to look equally unique as the one they saw on tv or anything. And when about everybody has that look, some other trend is about to become.

(Take a look at my sig, if you haven't noticed it yet.)

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:10 pm

I have no doubt at all that continual reinforcement by media and advertising do influence or views on what is sexy, or not.

Nonetheless, I do not think that we are all running about like a pack of "mindless" lab rats

Humans are also deeply sensual creatures; we are not automatons, and I think that we respond to how some things look, feel, taste, sound etc. of our own accord, without the force of outside influences dictating our behaviour.

Chanak · Post by **Chanak** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:23 pm

I suppose my preference for leather stems from more practical aspects. Leather conforms, is supple, and if you care for it properly offers superior performance compared to other materials. Like my tanned leather tool belt. It's the bomb, and the bees knees. It conforms itself to the shape of my tools, holds them securely, and weighs less than a comparable tool belt made of ripstop nylon. It also looks classier.

For myself, I prefer a leather coat, preferably one of European styling. Natural hues only, since I have yet to meet a red-skinned cow. I prefer black or brown. I have also owned a pair of hand-crafted elk hide boots and I must say that not only were they a smashing frontier fashion statement, but they were also the most comfortable footwear I have ever owned. Elk hide is thick, supple, and easier to break in than cowhide.

For women - I prefer bare female skin.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:28 pm

[QUOTE=dragon wench]Humans are also deeply sensual creatures; we are not automatons, and I think that we respond to how some things look, feel, taste, sound etc. of our own accord, without the force of outside influences dictating our behaviour.[/QUOTE]

LOL, in the sense you mean, humans are the least "deeply sensual creatures" around, since the degree of our responses that occur without the "force of outside influences" is extremly small compared to other species.

Besides, I would claim that innate responses to sensory stimuli is more highly automatised than behavioural responses that has been modulated in interaction with the environmental stimuli.

Thus, having a sexual response to the feeling of the skin of a naked human of the desired sex in a far more automatised response than being conditioned to respond sexually on leather.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:06 pm

[QUOTE=ik911]Yes it does. Something unique or rare is indeed often regarded attractive.[/QUOTE]

I didn't say that. I wrote that the availability (or lack of same) of a type of fabric has never helped or hindered its sexiness, and this is literally true. It isn't the rareness of furs that make them sexy to some people, but their 1) expensivesness, and 2) commercial advertising that associates them with animals, danger, sophistication and wealth. Leather is common, but it's considered sexy. Some batiks I'm aware of are not considered sexy, despite their relative rarity.

oozae · Post by **oozae** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 8:36 pm

There is nothing sexy about leather, it is clothing that is all. For example I wear the lightest and thinest clothes, because I feel more comfortable in it than heavier clothes, and despite what Chanak said I still think of leather as heavy clothing.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 6:33 am

I have to say again, it's more a personal thing with looks, attitude and how the clothing fits, than the clothing itself. Granted, if I was curled up with some girl, I wouldn't want her wearing something with the texture of sandpaper pressed against me, and certain fabrics would provoke different responses. Still, IMO it's more the person wearing the clothes than anything. I'd rather find someone I can be attracted to without them, regardless of what it is they are in otherwise.

[QUOTE=frogus23]I think the use of leather in bondage etc is just because of its perversity in such uses...[/QUOTE]

As to this, no, leather provides something durable while still able to be something soft and flexible as well if cured properly. It's much preferable over simply chaining someone up for sensuality and comfort reasons. Using a silk scarf doesn't quite cut it for holding someone down, at least that's been my experiences. Rope chafes, and chains too. Now, leather, with a little bit of cotton padding around it, that works quite well.