GameBanshee Forums

ik911, can you please not spam this thread? Thanks. No response necessary. I just want to keep this thread focused.

no, as stated before.. i don't participate on the serious topics 'cause i'm what one might call a "commoner" meaning that i don't like getting into deep serious thinking while off work and just want to relax every part of my body, including my brains.

Splitting the forum would be like delivering an unviable baby via caesarian...

In this metaphor, the baby is the "serious" part, which would die, the mother is the "spam" part, and its life would also be seriously endangered.

I can't figure out how to work into the metaphor the fact that if the mother survived it would be a prat.

@CE: *soothing noises* Grimar said specifically that the spam section would be boring too because it'd be full of nonsense. So he takes the wise and holistic view, quit your bickering... *kiss*

[QUOTE=dragon wench]People need to just get their knickers out of the proverbial twist, extricate their heads from their posteriors, stop the narcissism and accept that their favourite threads are not always going to be on page one![/QUOTE]

I respectfully disagree - this has nothing to do with anyone's 'favorite' threads being on page one.

Thread quality of threads has been degenerating (I posted this just before I left for an MUN conference - note how long it took to deteriorate into a pile of vomit-inducing trash) and I believe creating a sub-section would at least keep serious discussions at level. No, I'm not being elitist - I rarely post in debate threads.

[QUOTE=Locke Da'averan]no, as stated before.. i don't participate on the serious topics 'cause i'm what one might call a "commoner" meaning that i don't like getting into deep serious thinking while off work and just want to relax every part of my body, including my brains.[/QUOTE]
If you don't participate in serious discussions what difference would it make to you if they're all moved to another forum? Contrary to what appears to be popular belief, fable was not suggesting we turn SYM into a serious-discussion only forum thus eliminating spam.

Maybe, just maybe.... we could create a system. I'm really enjoying the serious discussions going on here, and I see many people put a lot of thought and labour into their replies. It is rather bothersome when you post a long, thoughtful answer to something and it drowns in a sea of drivel. Soooooooo.... maybe a system. Some threads create discussions that go on for ages, and light up, branch out and become both educational and enlightening. Is there some ways to make threads like these "sticky?" Make them stay at the top of the page until nobody has posted there for, say 14 days? Just an idea.

[QUOTE=frogus23]@CE: *soothing noises* Grimar said specifically that the spam section would be boring too because it'd be full of nonsense. So he takes the wise and holistic view, quit your bickering... *kiss*[/QUOTE]

Yes sweetie I know - the nonsense part was IMO exactly that - his statement that both parts would be boring, since Fable's original idea was based on the idea that people who find serious discussion funny/spam boring go to one forum, and people who find spam funny/serious discussion boring go to one forun. What I meant was: everything is boring to those who think it is boring. Thus nonsense.

Sigh, don't break my heart son and say you have become one of those "everything is the same as everything aren't I incredibly smart who have made this fanatastic revelation"-guys?

@Moonbiter: Personally, I really don't like stickies, and I think the serious discussions are dug up by those who wants to post in them. I agree with Vicsun that the major problem is the ongoing deterioration of serious topics, not that they are forgotten after a while.

[QUOTE=ik911]Indeed, you'd have one part that is very boring because it's only seriousness, and there's enough seriousness IRL, and there would be one part that's very boring because it's only non-sense.

I have no doubt that this mix is healthy.[/QUOTE]


You consider anything serious to be boring? Do you have health insurance? Insurance on your home? If that had to be paid out, would you be perfectly happy for your insurer to say, "Sorry, you policy wasn't serious" and not pay you? Would that be fun and exciting, and boredom preventing? I think you serious need to re-assess your values, and consider the fact that serious, and boring, are not synonyms?

[QUOTE=Vicsun]If you don't participate in serious discussions what difference would it make to you if they're all moved to another forum? Contrary to what appears to be popular belief, fable was not suggesting we turn SYM into a serious-discussion only forum thus eliminating spam.[/QUOTE]

I'm glad somebody got it.

since Fable's original idea was based on the idea that people who find serious discussion funny/spam boring go to one forum, and people who find spam funny/serious discussion boring go to one forun.

No, CE, I never said that, or suggested it. I said that one type of posting tends periodically to push the other off the first page, and that I used to get complaints about this when modding, here. So I was trying to find out whether people felt *2 separate SYM forums for spam and non-spam would help keep all pertinent threads visible and easy to access.*

Would I break your heart?

I think that both sections would become boring, as I think that the question of whether any given person finds spam or serious threads interesting wouldn't matter in two dead forums.

What everybody finds interesting is a diverse forum with many and varied members, in which any type of thread can go on and one can chose the decent ones.

So the two posited forums would be very different, but as Grimar said, they would both be boring to even the people who are supposedly interested in their contents.

[QUOTE=frogus23]Would I break your heart?

I think that both sections would become boring, as I think that the question of whether any given person finds spam or serious threads interesting wouldn't matter in two dead forums.

What everybody finds interesting is a diverse forum with many and varied members, in which any type of thread can go on and one can chose the decent ones.

So the two posited forums would be very different, but as Grimar said, they would both be boring to even the people who are supposedly interested in their contents.[/QUOTE]

I second that. The combination of light hearted, and serious threads, as well as the "in-betweenys" (threads which combine funa and seriousness) is what makes SYM what it is. And we loves it

[QUOTE=frogus23]Would I break your heart?
[/QUOTE]

Hopefully not You and Giles are my hope for the future

As I stated above, I agree with Vicsun that it is a problem that serious threads deteriorate. Apart from tagging the thread "no spam", could mods be asked to be a little harder on posts and content that the threadstarter does not want to have in their threads? I don't know what other's have experienced, but I have actually explicitely asked mods to remove spam (in this case unrelated jokes) from a serious thread and this did not happen, although the spamming person got a comment from a mod.

[QUOTE=Vicsun]I respectfully disagree - this has nothing to do with anyone's 'favorite' threads being on page one.

Thread quality of threads has been degenerating (I posted this just before I left for an MUN conference - note how long it took to deteriorate into a pile of vomit-inducing trash) and I believe creating a sub-section would at least keep serious discussions at level. No, I'm not being elitist - I rarely post in debate threads.[/QUOTE]

Well, since Fable states that people moaned when the spam threads slipped from the first page during his tenure as a SYM mod, I would hazard that it has a great deal to do with whether or not somebody's preferred topic decorates the first page or not. And quite frankly, I think it is childish and egotistical to indulge in that sort of behaviour. As others have already stated, if you want to post in a thread, find it, and do so; there is absolutely no reason why one special interest group needs to hold dominance or sway in a public forum where threads ebb and flow with a natural evolution of their own.

I do agree, however, that people who rudely and consistently inject senseless spam into a serious threads are a pain in the rear.
As I wrote in Brynn's thread about spam, I figure a moderate and well-judged amount of humour in serious threads can be okay, but the peurile barging into threads to spew utter nonsense is offensive. IMO, something needs to be done to deal with the problem, but I don't think that splitting SYM is the answer.
While I think Moonbiter's sticky idea could help, I don't really think too many stickies are the solution either.
How about if members, even after being warned not to spam up serious threads with utterly inane comments were temporarily banned for a couple of days? I say this with a caveat, however. I do not mean that somebody who cracks a joke or one-liner should be instantly warped to temporary banishment, that would be anal in the extreme, especially if the person included a topic-relevant commentary in their post. However, if somebody comes along and dumps nonsense into a thread after being repeatedly requested not to, perhaps a day or so in the doghouse will help to unplug their "ears."

Of course, it is fair to say that sometimes the reverse can apply as well. There are times when people post what is obviously intended to be a humorous thread and it becomes hijacked by serious discussion. Certainly, this is far more rare, but I've seen it happen.

You will always have these complaints about SYM in its current form. One week it's too serious, the other week it contains too much spam. But this periodical system seems to be the problem. When the serious topics pop up there suddenly seem to be a fairly big flow of serious topics, causing the first page to be filled with them. Same goes with spam topics. When these spam topics fill the first page, there are only a few serious topics. So either of the preferable side has its complaining periods. Sometimes there's a healthy balance between the two, but most of the time one side dominates. Last week page one was pretty much filled with spam topics, for example. But that is simply how SYM is and operates. Perhaps events in every day life control the topics discussed here. Should North Korea dumb an atomic bomb in the Ocean or the USA attack Iran, SYM would probably have sudden flow of serious topics and the spam topics would be driven away for a short period of time.
I'd say we leave this forum as it is, filled with both serious and spam topics. Why? Because that is what is attractive to SYM: the mixture of flavors.

This same problem appeared on another forum where the situation got out of hand. Any decent discussion thread was swamped in a mire of "Poll:Who's the cutest, Leo or Justin?" or "Look, I have 500 posts!" or whathaveyou. In the end they split the forum, and created a "light" forum for spam and drivel, and the mods went to work keeping the old discussion thread clean. Which of course turned out to be an impossible job driving them up the wall and turning them into nitpicking board-nazis, which drove away all the serious-minded people they wanted to keep in the first place so they all resigned for their own mental health's sake.

In the end they tore down the new "lighter" forum which was now similar to the original discussion forum, and created a forum simply called "Philosophy and Discussion" or something like that. Everyone who entered the forum was greeted with a message in big red letters which said something like: "Be warned! If you spam in this forum you will be banned from this entire site!" followed by a lot of minor rules. It worked like a charm. Zero tolerance. Today all the kiddies are happily spamming away in the original forum, chatting about which boybands are the cutest and "oh my god, I have a zit on my nose and a date tomorrow" - threads, while the serious minded folks are solving world problems in the other forum, and quite capable of using a lighter tone without stepping over the line.

What I'm saying is why not keep SYM as it is, and simply create a discussion forum? Then, if you want your post/subject to be taken seriously and have some serious feedback, you know where to post it!

[QUOTE=Moonbiter]In the end they tore down the new "lighter" forum which was now similar to the original discussion forum, and created a forum simply called "Philosophy and Discussion" or something like that. Everyone who entered the forum was greeted with a message in big red letters which said something like: "Be warned! If you spam in this forum you will be banned from this entire site!" followed by a lot of minor rules. It worked like a charm. Zero tolerance. Today all the kiddies are happily spamming away in the original forum, chatting about which boybands are the cutest and "oh my god, I have a zit on my nose and a date tomorrow" - threads, while the serious minded folks are solving world problems in the other forum, and quite capable of using a lighter tone without stepping over the line.[/QUOTE]
Ha! I no longer have to worry about my posts being the most elitist and arrogant ones in the thread That being said...

[quote="CE]
As I stated above"]
To avoid derailing fable's thread, would you care posting this in the moderator discussion forum? I also believe under/over moderating SYM is a problem that we need to address, but it's only marginally relevant to the current topic.

To be honest moonbiter, I can't see it working. 95% of SYMers are of the higer common denominator, and are above:

oh my god, I have a zit on my nose and a date tomorrow" - threads,

I think all this forum requires is slightly more respect and self control, as well as maybe slightly more agressive modding. Just to prevent the

(no spam)

thread degenerating. I belive the mix is healthy, although the postfarmign threads are beginning to annoy Word Association only was ok, but there are a few now, and it is starting to add up.

[QUOTE=giles337]I belive the mix is healthy, although the postfarmign threads are beginning to annoy Word Association only was ok, but there are a few now, and it is starting to add up. [/QUOTE]

They tend not to survive. Word association is an exception. This or that is a more interesting game, and haiku is fine too, but they will have a short life span. And, in the end, postcound doesnt matter.

My own hunch is that a serious, no-spam forum would thrive as well as SYM does, but a spam forum wouldn't be as much fun in the absence of serious discussion.

I noticed that most of the serious conversation threads were being pushed down, as well. But to divide SYM? No, I don't think that's necessary. I think that the newer members are perhaps being a little too overzealous with the spam-related threads, but once the hype dies down things should begin to mediate again. Not having so many "Hey guys, spam is good!" threads would be a nice start.