Magrus, you may want to explain to her that it is ok to wander from her (and your) original intentions with one another. It's ok to explore new territory in your relationship. It's perfectly natural to have your feelings become more intimate with one another. Whoever said that you had to stick to your guns with your somewhat impersonal original idea you had for your relationship? It is starting to sound to me that she has taken up the logic of 'I said it was going to be this way...and it has to stay that way no matter how I really feel'. She may be a little too literal in her honesty...and not leaving room for change of heart.
She may be looking to you to explain how the intimate style of relationships work...whereas you have been taking her lead on the impersonal style that she is so accustomed to. (Impersonal being used for lack of a better word at the moment.) Sounds like a role-reversal to me...with you being the teacher now.
As frustrating as it may be, take your time with explanation...it doesn't have to be rushed. Plus taking the time necessary may make her feel more relaxed in telling you EXACTLY what is on her mind as it comes up.
Women and Communication
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dragon wench
- Posts: 19609
- Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2001 10:00 pm
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- Contact:
Magrus,
I'm almost getting the impression reading through your posts that you are perhaps as confused as she is.... that you both developed far deeper feelings than either of you had anticipated. Part of your confusion seems to stem from the fact that in a few months you will be in a long distance situation....
If the whole issue is tearing you up right now, maybe this is an indication that the relationship has far more potential than the two of you had originally intended.
I'm not asking you divulge anything you don't want to here; I'll only say that you need to ask yourselves if it has to absolutely end when you are apart. Long distance relationships are never easy; I've experienced several and can attest to this. But.... they *can* work...
Shortly after my SO and I began seeing one another (we began as room mates and attended the same university in Central Canada), I had to return to the coast for health reasons. We maintained our relationship via snail mail (no email or IMs around then) and the telephone for about 6 months, and then he moved across the country so he could be with me. That was 15 years ago. Now, our relationship is not perfect; indeed, much of it has been bumpy due to respective background baggage, and who knows if it will ultimately last... But I write about this only to illustrate that long distance relationships can endure...
I'm almost getting the impression reading through your posts that you are perhaps as confused as she is.... that you both developed far deeper feelings than either of you had anticipated. Part of your confusion seems to stem from the fact that in a few months you will be in a long distance situation....
If the whole issue is tearing you up right now, maybe this is an indication that the relationship has far more potential than the two of you had originally intended.
I'm not asking you divulge anything you don't want to here; I'll only say that you need to ask yourselves if it has to absolutely end when you are apart. Long distance relationships are never easy; I've experienced several and can attest to this. But.... they *can* work...
Shortly after my SO and I began seeing one another (we began as room mates and attended the same university in Central Canada), I had to return to the coast for health reasons. We maintained our relationship via snail mail (no email or IMs around then) and the telephone for about 6 months, and then he moved across the country so he could be with me. That was 15 years ago. Now, our relationship is not perfect; indeed, much of it has been bumpy due to respective background baggage, and who knows if it will ultimately last... But I write about this only to illustrate that long distance relationships can endure...
Spoiler
testingtest12
Spoiler
testingtest12
[QUOTE=Ariona]She may be looking to you to explain how the intimate style of relationships work...whereas you have been taking her lead on the impersonal style that she is so accustomed to. (Impersonal being used for lack of a better word at the moment.) Sounds like a role-reversal to me...with you being the teacher now.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I believe so and I get the distinct impression she's uncomfortable with not knowing what to do and needing help with that. She's a wealthy girl and has rebelled against her mother's money and has always tried to see to it she could take care of herself in any situation. Not knowing what to do in an emotional situation like this is troubling her I think.
@dragon wench, I'm not confused really, I know what I want, and how to go about it. It's the fact she doesn't that complicates things at the moment, I don't know how to handle that until she discusses it with me.
Thank you for sharing that with me, I've dealt with a few long distance relationships and wasn't at all happy with the results of them. Given the directions each of our lives are headed, it would take a great deal to work out how to see that succeed. I think it would be far more practical to let each other go until the situation ends up we could be together and see what happens then. I'd be looking at close to a decade seperated from her and I can't see that working, as much as I'd want it to.
My real concern now is getting to her open up to me and let me know what she wants, and how she feels. I'd rather take our relationship and see where it goes now, than wait not knowing if it could work later. She might not feel that way though. Until she's comfortable enough to discuss it again, I can't help her with that.
Yes, I believe so and I get the distinct impression she's uncomfortable with not knowing what to do and needing help with that. She's a wealthy girl and has rebelled against her mother's money and has always tried to see to it she could take care of herself in any situation. Not knowing what to do in an emotional situation like this is troubling her I think.
@dragon wench, I'm not confused really, I know what I want, and how to go about it. It's the fact she doesn't that complicates things at the moment, I don't know how to handle that until she discusses it with me.
Thank you for sharing that with me, I've dealt with a few long distance relationships and wasn't at all happy with the results of them. Given the directions each of our lives are headed, it would take a great deal to work out how to see that succeed. I think it would be far more practical to let each other go until the situation ends up we could be together and see what happens then. I'd be looking at close to a decade seperated from her and I can't see that working, as much as I'd want it to.
My real concern now is getting to her open up to me and let me know what she wants, and how she feels. I'd rather take our relationship and see where it goes now, than wait not knowing if it could work later. She might not feel that way though. Until she's comfortable enough to discuss it again, I can't help her with that.
"You can do whatever you want to me."
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
Well, I just finished that conversation I was wanting to have. It went quite well. I finally got her to share exactly how she was feeling and what she was thinking, and she was just awkward and unsure of everything. So I repeat everything I told her some time ago and apparently I'm quite eloquent on occasion as she put it. 
She's considering leaving work for the remainder of our time together after tying up loose ends with it and finishing up looking into schools she wants to go to. I tried putting things down as reasons not to, but she wants to drag me off to Michigan to her family's cabin to spend the time we do have together there alone. So, I'm quite shocked at the moment and trying to process all of this. The fact she's even considering such a thing is far more than I was expecting. Whether or not it happens is something else entirely, but that just made my week resolving most of what was going on. We're still lost on exactly where to go, but at least I got her to share what she wants and we can work that out later.
Oh, and thanks to everyone taking the time to go through this and share your thoughts with me. I truly appreciate it.
She's considering leaving work for the remainder of our time together after tying up loose ends with it and finishing up looking into schools she wants to go to. I tried putting things down as reasons not to, but she wants to drag me off to Michigan to her family's cabin to spend the time we do have together there alone. So, I'm quite shocked at the moment and trying to process all of this. The fact she's even considering such a thing is far more than I was expecting. Whether or not it happens is something else entirely, but that just made my week resolving most of what was going on. We're still lost on exactly where to go, but at least I got her to share what she wants and we can work that out later.Oh, and thanks to everyone taking the time to go through this and share your thoughts with me. I truly appreciate it.
"You can do whatever you want to me."
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
[quote="CM]I e-mailed this to my SO and this is what she had to say "]
Everything I write to Magrus here goes for you as well if you and your SO are having the same problems.
@Magrus: Good to hear your conversation turned out the way you liked. However, don't be surprised if this is not the last discussion you'll be having with this girl about your relationship and such.
The reason I got the impression that she was quite immature, was that from what you describe, it seems that she is at loss with the concept that she can actually not control her feelings totally, and that this seem to scare her. Now, it is of course unrealistic to believe that you can protect yourself from falling in love because you don't feel like doing it right now or just because you are afraid of it. When this happens, her first reaction is helpless confusion, not wanting to communicate with you and display of aggression.
Not only is your gf afraid of a close relationship, she also has no experience of other types of relationships than sex-toy relationships, which means she also has very little knowledge and understanding of her own reactions and functions is the context of a close relationship. You have been through this before, she has not, so be prepared for a lot more fear and confusion. Many things will appear that she does not know and cannot predict herself.
Note that I am not trying to critise your gf here, I am just trying to make a realistic assessment of the situation because I don't like you to expect too much from her. If you chose to work for a serious, close and long term committed relationship with her, you will have a lot of work before you. She will most likely not just fall relieved into your arms and live happily thereafter. You know better than I what has made her so afraid of close relationships, but nobody fears love and relationships without a strong incentive to do so.
People who fear close relationships usually have the erranous conception that they can protect themselves from harm and being hurt better if they avoid relationships. They fear getting hurt and often also they fear loosing control because they believe they can control whether they should get hurt or not. In many situations they will clam up rather than communicate, since they also feel not communicating protects them, whereas open discussion makes them feel "vulnerable". Often, they are oversensitive to loss and separation, and this oversensivity and exaggregated fear has a cause - nobody is born with fear of relationships, there always some bad experiences of some sort behind this.
Only you yourself can decide how much you are prepared to work for having a relationship with somebody, but I am convinced that you must be prepared to work a lot for this relationship.
In general, fear will make it difficult to distiguish what is genuine and not in a person, so confusion will likely increase both for the person who is afraid and for the receiving person. Also, when you fear something irrational (as in the case of fearing relationships), chances are that you have a distorted and unrealistic image of the thing you fear and it will take both time and effort to relearn. The bad experiences and negative emotions that have caused your distorted image will have to slowly be replaced with realistic and nuanced images. Some people will initially be very happy and relieved once they find somebody that "break through" their "shell" of protection from close relationships, but for every new step you take towards a closer or more long term commitment, they will kick and scream, which may be confusing and surprising to the partner, who believed everything was fine now. Others will be extremly reluctant in the beginning, but adapt to the idea successively.
By knowing what caused her to fear close relationships in the first place, you will cope easier with the problems this may (and most likely will) cause. Personally I have always avoided people who are afraid of love and close relationships, but if you love her I am sure it can be worthwhile for you.
Everything I write to Magrus here goes for you as well if you and your SO are having the same problems.
@Magrus: Good to hear your conversation turned out the way you liked. However, don't be surprised if this is not the last discussion you'll be having with this girl about your relationship and such.
The reason I got the impression that she was quite immature, was that from what you describe, it seems that she is at loss with the concept that she can actually not control her feelings totally, and that this seem to scare her. Now, it is of course unrealistic to believe that you can protect yourself from falling in love because you don't feel like doing it right now or just because you are afraid of it. When this happens, her first reaction is helpless confusion, not wanting to communicate with you and display of aggression.
Not only is your gf afraid of a close relationship, she also has no experience of other types of relationships than sex-toy relationships, which means she also has very little knowledge and understanding of her own reactions and functions is the context of a close relationship. You have been through this before, she has not, so be prepared for a lot more fear and confusion. Many things will appear that she does not know and cannot predict herself.
Note that I am not trying to critise your gf here, I am just trying to make a realistic assessment of the situation because I don't like you to expect too much from her. If you chose to work for a serious, close and long term committed relationship with her, you will have a lot of work before you. She will most likely not just fall relieved into your arms and live happily thereafter. You know better than I what has made her so afraid of close relationships, but nobody fears love and relationships without a strong incentive to do so.
People who fear close relationships usually have the erranous conception that they can protect themselves from harm and being hurt better if they avoid relationships. They fear getting hurt and often also they fear loosing control because they believe they can control whether they should get hurt or not. In many situations they will clam up rather than communicate, since they also feel not communicating protects them, whereas open discussion makes them feel "vulnerable". Often, they are oversensitive to loss and separation, and this oversensivity and exaggregated fear has a cause - nobody is born with fear of relationships, there always some bad experiences of some sort behind this.
Only you yourself can decide how much you are prepared to work for having a relationship with somebody, but I am convinced that you must be prepared to work a lot for this relationship.
In general, fear will make it difficult to distiguish what is genuine and not in a person, so confusion will likely increase both for the person who is afraid and for the receiving person. Also, when you fear something irrational (as in the case of fearing relationships), chances are that you have a distorted and unrealistic image of the thing you fear and it will take both time and effort to relearn. The bad experiences and negative emotions that have caused your distorted image will have to slowly be replaced with realistic and nuanced images. Some people will initially be very happy and relieved once they find somebody that "break through" their "shell" of protection from close relationships, but for every new step you take towards a closer or more long term commitment, they will kick and scream, which may be confusing and surprising to the partner, who believed everything was fine now. Others will be extremly reluctant in the beginning, but adapt to the idea successively.
By knowing what caused her to fear close relationships in the first place, you will cope easier with the problems this may (and most likely will) cause. Personally I have always avoided people who are afraid of love and close relationships, but if you love her I am sure it can be worthwhile for you.
"There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance." - Hippocrates
Moderator of Planescape: Torment, Diablo I & II and Dungeon Siege forums
[QUOTE=C Elegans]@Magrus: Good to hear your conversation turned out the way you liked. However, don't be surprised if this is not the last discussion you'll be having with this girl about your relationship and such.
[/QUOTE]
I've no doubt we'll be having more conversations, and I don't have any problem with that It will be a lot of work. Simply getting her past the fear of opening up to me was my biggest concern and bother really. So long as someone is willing to trust me enough to communicate how they feel with me, it's often not all that hard to work things out. It might take effort and time, along with frustration and someone getting upset along the way. That's not at all different from everyday life though.
I'm fairly certain "love" is far too premature at this point in time. We both discussed that quite extensively today. The reasoning behind her suggestion was to figure out exactly how we feel and what to do about it. We know how we feel at the moment, but haven't had a chance to explore those emotions and express them. Given the limited time frame we have, and the reasons behind it I've left it to her to make the majority of the decisions on where to go from this point while I simply throw in my own advice from my experience. I found it best to let her decide her own way which she's most comfortable with and not push her at all.
All in all nothing truly got accomplished that was big and profound aside from her finally deciding to be honest about her feelings. That in and of itself though happens to be extremely important and shows me she's willing to try working things out at least. She could have simply kept them to herself and not risked being hurt and shut me out instead. The decision she's going to be thinking of though is whether or not to adjust everything in her life to spend as much time as possible with me to see how things work out. Lately she's done a good job of seeing to it she finds herself too busy to find time for me so she doesn't have to worry about how she feels and what not. Breaking her out of that cycle and getting her to open up to me finally is really all I was hoping for. Anything beyond that is great.
Chances are good I'll end up frustrated again and she'll still not know quite what to do with some things in the near future. Then again, everyone ends up frustrated by something and confused once in a while. So long as she keeps communicating I don't have a problem with either. She's a smart enough girl to reason things out quickly too, and isn't one to repeat her mistakes either. So, I don't think I'll have too much to worry about so long as she stays honest, to herself more than anything else now. I think she realized it's less awkward and frightening to act on how she feels than to hide it tonight too.
[/QUOTE]
I've no doubt we'll be having more conversations, and I don't have any problem with that It will be a lot of work. Simply getting her past the fear of opening up to me was my biggest concern and bother really. So long as someone is willing to trust me enough to communicate how they feel with me, it's often not all that hard to work things out. It might take effort and time, along with frustration and someone getting upset along the way. That's not at all different from everyday life though.
I'm fairly certain "love" is far too premature at this point in time. We both discussed that quite extensively today. The reasoning behind her suggestion was to figure out exactly how we feel and what to do about it. We know how we feel at the moment, but haven't had a chance to explore those emotions and express them. Given the limited time frame we have, and the reasons behind it I've left it to her to make the majority of the decisions on where to go from this point while I simply throw in my own advice from my experience. I found it best to let her decide her own way which she's most comfortable with and not push her at all.
All in all nothing truly got accomplished that was big and profound aside from her finally deciding to be honest about her feelings. That in and of itself though happens to be extremely important and shows me she's willing to try working things out at least. She could have simply kept them to herself and not risked being hurt and shut me out instead. The decision she's going to be thinking of though is whether or not to adjust everything in her life to spend as much time as possible with me to see how things work out. Lately she's done a good job of seeing to it she finds herself too busy to find time for me so she doesn't have to worry about how she feels and what not. Breaking her out of that cycle and getting her to open up to me finally is really all I was hoping for. Anything beyond that is great.
Chances are good I'll end up frustrated again and she'll still not know quite what to do with some things in the near future. Then again, everyone ends up frustrated by something and confused once in a while. So long as she keeps communicating I don't have a problem with either. She's a smart enough girl to reason things out quickly too, and isn't one to repeat her mistakes either. So, I don't think I'll have too much to worry about so long as she stays honest, to herself more than anything else now. I think she realized it's less awkward and frightening to act on how she feels than to hide it tonight too.
"You can do whatever you want to me."
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
[QUOTE=Magrus]
Always glad that my misfortunes can help others. [/QUOTE]
My friend its not misfortune rather its complication. Btw i do mean i am exactly in the same boat as yourself. There is not a single difference. I suggest we form a support group and ***** and complain via pms or in public if need be?
Always glad that my misfortunes can help others.
[/QUOTE]My friend its not misfortune rather its complication. Btw i do mean i am exactly in the same boat as yourself. There is not a single difference. I suggest we form a support group and ***** and complain via pms or in public if need be?
For what is it to die but to stand naked in the wind and to melt into the sun? - Khalil Gibran
"We shall fight on the beaches. We shall fight on the landing grounds. We shall fight in the fields, and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills. We shall never surrender!" - Winston Churchill
"We shall fight on the beaches. We shall fight on the landing grounds. We shall fight in the fields, and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills. We shall never surrender!" - Winston Churchill
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fable
- Posts: 30676
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:00 pm
- Location: The sun, the moon, and the stars.
- Contact:
[QUOTE=C Elegans]@Magrus: Good to hear your conversation turned out the way you liked. However, don't be surprised if this is not the last discussion you'll be having with this girl about your relationship and such. [/quote]
I'd second this. Unlike made-for-tv movies, people in real life don't simply solve their problems, nor do they have massive epiphanies. We stumble around, we make some progress, we're still haunted by wherever we came from; and we slowly move forward, if we can. With luck, with the help of others, but always, the final responsibility rests on us. I suspect, as CE does, that the same insecurities will rise again, to challenge new situations. Over time, perhaps, these insecurities will die down.
The reason I got the impression that she was quite immature, was that from what you describe, it seems that she is at loss with the concept that she can actually not control her feelings totally, and that this seem to scare her.
I would call this the normal human condition. How that reflects upon the word maturity, and vice versa, I leave to others to decide.
Not only is your gf afraid of a close relationship, she also has no experience of other types of relationships than sex-toy relationships, which means she also has very little knowledge and understanding of her own reactions and functions is the context of a close relationship. You have been through this before, she has not, so be prepared for a lot more fear and confusion. Many things will appear that she does not know and cannot predict herself.
To me, this means you, Magrus, have to take control in some fashion of this relationship. I don't mean you have to don leather and wield a whip. I do mean to suggest you should subtly guide things along, initiating conversation, keeping channels open, reinforcing her fragile state of security and peace of mind. When and if you're still in this relationship and she decides to initiate dialog and exercise some positive control, go with it, and know inside yourself that there's been definite progress.
I'd second this. Unlike made-for-tv movies, people in real life don't simply solve their problems, nor do they have massive epiphanies. We stumble around, we make some progress, we're still haunted by wherever we came from; and we slowly move forward, if we can. With luck, with the help of others, but always, the final responsibility rests on us. I suspect, as CE does, that the same insecurities will rise again, to challenge new situations. Over time, perhaps, these insecurities will die down.
The reason I got the impression that she was quite immature, was that from what you describe, it seems that she is at loss with the concept that she can actually not control her feelings totally, and that this seem to scare her.
I would call this the normal human condition. How that reflects upon the word maturity, and vice versa, I leave to others to decide.
Not only is your gf afraid of a close relationship, she also has no experience of other types of relationships than sex-toy relationships, which means she also has very little knowledge and understanding of her own reactions and functions is the context of a close relationship. You have been through this before, she has not, so be prepared for a lot more fear and confusion. Many things will appear that she does not know and cannot predict herself.
To me, this means you, Magrus, have to take control in some fashion of this relationship. I don't mean you have to don leather and wield a whip.
I do mean to suggest you should subtly guide things along, initiating conversation, keeping channels open, reinforcing her fragile state of security and peace of mind. When and if you're still in this relationship and she decides to initiate dialog and exercise some positive control, go with it, and know inside yourself that there's been definite progress.To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
[QUOTE=fable]To me, this means you, Magrus, have to take control in some fashion of this relationship. I don't mean you have to don leather and wield a whip. I do mean to suggest you should subtly guide things along, initiating conversation, keeping channels open, reinforcing her fragile state of security and peace of mind. When and if you're still in this relationship and she decides to initiate dialog and exercise some positive control, go with it, and know inside yourself that there's been definite progress.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I don't doubt she wants me to take control, she might actually enjoy the leather and whip thing though. Actually a small problem between us is my habit is not taking what I want often enough. I don't get that one personally, I'm fairly easy going and could care less what I'm up to if I'm with the right person most of the time. Still, I won't feel comfortable trying to tug her in any certain direction with anything, especially given her own inexperience with any form of serious relationships. I've let her know she's just to tell me what she wants and I'll do the same and we'll work out what's halfway between for the majority of the time. The whole compromise thing left her in an odd place I think, she's used to having it one way or the other, not any middle ground.
I'll let her simply decide where to go on most things, interject my opinions and wants as to what she's mentioned, and whenever she's lost on what to do I'll guide her. She's the only one that knows what she's most comfortable with so I'd rather her come up with the suggestions if she has any first. At least she'll be comfortable with those she comes up with from the start and not trying just to do what I ask of her to keep me happy.
I do mean to suggest you should subtly guide things along, initiating conversation, keeping channels open, reinforcing her fragile state of security and peace of mind. When and if you're still in this relationship and she decides to initiate dialog and exercise some positive control, go with it, and know inside yourself that there's been definite progress.[/QUOTE]Oh, I don't doubt she wants me to take control, she might actually enjoy the leather and whip thing though.
Actually a small problem between us is my habit is not taking what I want often enough. I don't get that one personally, I'm fairly easy going and could care less what I'm up to if I'm with the right person most of the time. Still, I won't feel comfortable trying to tug her in any certain direction with anything, especially given her own inexperience with any form of serious relationships. I've let her know she's just to tell me what she wants and I'll do the same and we'll work out what's halfway between for the majority of the time. The whole compromise thing left her in an odd place I think, she's used to having it one way or the other, not any middle ground.I'll let her simply decide where to go on most things, interject my opinions and wants as to what she's mentioned, and whenever she's lost on what to do I'll guide her. She's the only one that knows what she's most comfortable with so I'd rather her come up with the suggestions if she has any first. At least she'll be comfortable with those she comes up with from the start and not trying just to do what I ask of her to keep me happy.
"You can do whatever you want to me."
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
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fable
- Posts: 30676
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:00 pm
- Location: The sun, the moon, and the stars.
- Contact:
[QUOTE=Magrus]The whole compromise thing left her in an odd place I think, she's used to having it one way or the other, not any middle ground.[/quote]
I'm so genuinely sorry to hear that (and I mean it). Many of the best moments in life come from the sense of knowing one has freedom, stands in a good place where all directions are open, no matter what one subsequently chooses. Choices do not limit freedom, but having that sense to choose is (to use the horribly cliched, modern word) empowering.
I'll let her simply decide where to go on most things, interject my opinions and wants as to what she's mentioned, and whenever she's lost on what to do I'll guide her. She's the only one that knows what she's most comfortable with so I'd rather her come up with the suggestions if she has any first. At least she'll be comfortable with those she comes up with from the start and not trying just to do what I ask of her to keep me happy.
I hope she finds a center in a true relationship, someday, one that involves giving and taking. It simply sounds as though she's not ready for it, yet.
I'm so genuinely sorry to hear that (and I mean it). Many of the best moments in life come from the sense of knowing one has freedom, stands in a good place where all directions are open, no matter what one subsequently chooses. Choices do not limit freedom, but having that sense to choose is (to use the horribly cliched, modern word) empowering.
I'll let her simply decide where to go on most things, interject my opinions and wants as to what she's mentioned, and whenever she's lost on what to do I'll guide her. She's the only one that knows what she's most comfortable with so I'd rather her come up with the suggestions if she has any first. At least she'll be comfortable with those she comes up with from the start and not trying just to do what I ask of her to keep me happy.
I hope she finds a center in a true relationship, someday, one that involves giving and taking. It simply sounds as though she's not ready for it, yet.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
I didn't notice this before, I've no problem at all voicing any opinion of mine in public. Feel free either way.My friend its not misfortune rather its complication. Btw i do mean i am exactly in the same boat as yourself. There is not a single difference. I suggest we form a support group and ***** and complain via pms or in public if need be?
I believe she's realized she wants that now. She was worried it would restrict her and she'd be forced to change. I got her to realize that wasn't at all how things were. I've no wish to change her, everything is her choice and will stay that way. She didn't like that I put it that she could make whatever choices she wanted and I'd react however I felt best. I might be happy or upset depending on the choices she makes, she's still free to do whatever she happens to want to though. I think it hit her then though that regardless of what I want, she's free to do what she wants. That really made her think of what it is she DOES want out of whats between us, which prompted her to consider dropping everything to spend time alone with me without distraction.fable wrote:I'm so genuinely sorry to hear that (and I mean it). Many of the best moments in life come from the sense of knowing one has freedom, stands in a good place where all directions are open, no matter what one subsequently chooses. Choices do not limit freedom, but having that sense to choose is (to use the horribly cliched, modern word) empowering.
I hope she finds a center in a true relationship, someday, one that involves giving and taking. It simply sounds as though she's not ready for it, yet.
I think she IS ready for it, much more than I had at first guessed at. Once she shared how she felt and I did the same she seemed far more comfortable with me than she has in more than a month, happier too. Whatever fears she's had, I do believe the realization she had last night has offset them enough she's willing to go about expressing herself despite her inexperience and confusion of those new emotions. To be honest, I'm starting to get the feeling that her lack of experience there may put her to be more open and adventurous than I am. While I've done a more serious relationship before and she hasn't, she's never been hurt and lost that kind of emotional attatchment. She may be worried about experiencing that, but without knowing what it's like she might not be as wary as I've become having gone through it before. It might work out fairly well considering how she reacted last night and today.
"You can do whatever you want to me."
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
@Magrus: Sounds like you are well prepared to deal with the situation You seem to value her and your relationship enough to work a good deal for it. This is crucial if your gf is to overcome her fears for close relationships.
The mature view would be to realise that you cannot always control your emotions as you'd like to, in fact you cannot control very much in life at all. This may scare you, excite you or leave you indifferent, the reaction in itself is depedent of personality IMO, not on maturity level, but the insight is maturity related.
Then, I am not sure if it is "normal" to be mature in our society.
You seem to value her and your relationship enough to work a good deal for it. This is crucial if your gf is to overcome her fears for close relationships. What consitutes maturity is something you'll get as many definitions of as there are theories and models about the human psyche. However, something all psychological theories agree on, is that acceptance of reality as it is. This of course give rise to the metaphysical question "what is reality?", but if we skip the often fruitless metaphysics and deal with psychological reality, it is a fact that humans are subject to many emotions we cannot control. In fact, lack of control in general is typical for our lives, and if this idea is new or alien to you, I'd say that you are yet an immature person. If you cannot accept that you can't always control your feelings, people around you, what will happen to you etc, I'd assess you as even more immature.Magrus] Actually a small problem between us is my habit is not taking what I want often enough. [/quote] This I recognise very well from many different situations. When people are insecure of what to do wrote:CE] The reason I got the impression that she was quite immature wrote:
I would call this the normal human condition. How that reflects upon the word maturity, and vice versa, I leave to others to decide.
The mature view would be to realise that you cannot always control your emotions as you'd like to, in fact you cannot control very much in life at all. This may scare you, excite you or leave you indifferent, the reaction in itself is depedent of personality IMO, not on maturity level, but the insight is maturity related.
Then, I am not sure if it is "normal" to be mature in our society.
Fas]My friend its not misfortune rather its complication. Btw i do mean i am exactly in the same boat as yourself. There is not a single difference. I suggest we form a support group and ***** and complain via pms or in public if need be?[/quote wrote:
Please complain in public so I can scorn you in secret
"There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance." - Hippocrates
Moderator of Planescape: Torment, Diablo I & II and Dungeon Siege forums
[QUOTE=C Elegans]@Magrus: Sounds like you are well prepared to deal with the situation You seem to value her and your relationship enough to work a good deal for it. This is crucial if your gf is to overcome her fears for close relationships.[/QUOTE]
Whether or not Magrus is well prepared to deal with the situation, I don't quite understand why you are advising her to pursue a relationship with someone who, in spite of her partner's feelings, is not ready for a mature relationship. Her partner doesn't sound "toxic" to me or anything like that, but you yourself have said that you have "cleaned out" your collection of friends from time to time so that, more or less, you don't have to deal with situations like this. I hesitate to give Magrus specific advice, but I expected something different from you.
You seem to value her and your relationship enough to work a good deal for it. This is crucial if your gf is to overcome her fears for close relationships.[/QUOTE]Whether or not Magrus is well prepared to deal with the situation, I don't quite understand why you are advising her to pursue a relationship with someone who, in spite of her partner's feelings, is not ready for a mature relationship. Her partner doesn't sound "toxic" to me or anything like that, but you yourself have said that you have "cleaned out" your collection of friends from time to time so that, more or less, you don't have to deal with situations like this. I hesitate to give Magrus specific advice, but I expected something different from you.
@VonDondue: Not sure what advice you had expected me to give Magrus, but the advice I have given is not based on personal reference and not on personal opinions. It's based on what I believe Magrus and his gf wants to do, and I don't see anything destructive with that although it would not be my own choice.
Magrus gf has some feelings that are new to her, but she seems willing to explore them at least a bit. Magrus appears willing to take on all the problems and drawbacks that probably will arise from starting up a relationship with a person who is not ready for it. A person who is not ready for something, must somehow, some way become ready, and why not right now?
People who are afraid of close relationships are not people who do not want relationships. Since they actually want close relationships but must overcome their own fears etc, it's better for them to develop and learn to have relationships, than to continue avoiding it and thus missing out on an important aspect of human life. Most people with fear of close relationships and love, learn to overcome that fear with a supportive and helpful parter rather than on their own. Whereas I personally do not want to be such a partner, Magrus appears both willing and apt, so why not try to develop their present relationship into a "serious" relationship possibly involving love and closeness?
If I was a marriage counselor and I was to give people advice based on my personal opinions, I'd advice 99.9% of all couples to split up and 99.9% of all relationships never to start. That's because I generally think people put up with far to much in their relationships and spend far to much energy on the wrong things. Luckily, I am not a marriage counselor
Magrus gf has some feelings that are new to her, but she seems willing to explore them at least a bit. Magrus appears willing to take on all the problems and drawbacks that probably will arise from starting up a relationship with a person who is not ready for it. A person who is not ready for something, must somehow, some way become ready, and why not right now?
People who are afraid of close relationships are not people who do not want relationships. Since they actually want close relationships but must overcome their own fears etc, it's better for them to develop and learn to have relationships, than to continue avoiding it and thus missing out on an important aspect of human life. Most people with fear of close relationships and love, learn to overcome that fear with a supportive and helpful parter rather than on their own. Whereas I personally do not want to be such a partner, Magrus appears both willing and apt, so why not try to develop their present relationship into a "serious" relationship possibly involving love and closeness?
If I was a marriage counselor and I was to give people advice based on my personal opinions, I'd advice 99.9% of all couples to split up and 99.9% of all relationships never to start. That's because I generally think people put up with far to much in their relationships and spend far to much energy on the wrong things. Luckily, I am not a marriage counselor
"There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance." - Hippocrates
Moderator of Planescape: Torment, Diablo I & II and Dungeon Siege forums
[QUOTE=C Elegans]@VonDondue: Not sure what advice you had expected me to give Magrus, but the advice I have given is not based on personal reference and not on personal opinions...
If I was a marriage counselor and I was to give people advice based on my personal opinions, I'd advice 99.9% of all couples to split up and 99.9% of all relationships never to start. That's because I generally think people put up with far to much in their relationships and spend far to much energy on the wrong things...[/QUOTE]
THAT is what I expected from you.
If I was a marriage counselor and I was to give people advice based on my personal opinions, I'd advice 99.9% of all couples to split up and 99.9% of all relationships never to start. That's because I generally think people put up with far to much in their relationships and spend far to much energy on the wrong things...[/QUOTE]
THAT is what I expected from you.