Noober you've mentioned using a shield for the Bard/PM/RDD. How do you get rid of the Archane spell cast failure?
Why dual to PM ASAP? RDD gives you bonus INT which will benefit your skills...
PM/RDD Combo Feasible?
Arcane Spell Failure shouldn't really be a problem as practically all your spells should be defensive (and possibly spell sequencable), not to mention that you can just dequip your shield.
Actually it should be 2 PM ASAP, then RDD to level 10, then all PM (IIRC) etc. but I was just thinking about Deathless Vigour. Don't forget I'm doing all this from memory, you should expect some flaws.
Actually it should be 2 PM ASAP, then RDD to level 10, then all PM (IIRC) etc. but I was just thinking about Deathless Vigour. Don't forget I'm doing all this from memory, you should expect some flaws.
"Heya! Have you been to Baldur's Gate? I've been to Baldur's Gate... Oops, stepped into something. Have you stepped into something?"
Sorc/RDD is a poor choice as there is very little synergy between the classes (as RDD is for melee, while Sorc is pure caster. PM is very important for Immunity: Criticals and AC etc. I've found that the traditional Sorc 38/Pally 1/Monk 1 is much more effective then Sorc xx/RDD 10/Pally x.
"Heya! Have you been to Baldur's Gate? I've been to Baldur's Gate... Oops, stepped into something. Have you stepped into something?"
[QUOTE=Noober]Sorc/RDD is a poor choice as there is very little synergy between the classes (as RDD is for melee, while Sorc is pure caster.[/QUOTE]
That's exactly what I see as an advantage: it strengthens features that a Sorc normally wouldn't be able to gain.
What do you gain with 1 Monk lvl?
That's exactly what I see as an advantage: it strengthens features that a Sorc normally wouldn't be able to gain.
What do you gain with 1 Monk lvl?
Up the IRONS!
imho while rdd does that, however at a cost of 10 levels or so, imho those 10 levels cost too much arcane blasting goodness. (and buffing goodness) there are better fits unless you really want wings.Brynn wrote:That's exactly what I see as an advantage: it strengthens features that a Sorc normally wouldn't be able to gain.
evasionWhat do you gain with 1 Monk lvl?
wis bonus to a/c
flurry of blows
in class tumble skill.
ability to use monk items.
in the right build a sorc / pally / monk picks up many benefits on par w/ the rdd - at a cost of only 2 levels, and a lack of wings however it leaves your spellcasting almost intact - and there is great synergy w/ the cha statistic.
case by case...
rdd 10, draconic armor ac+3
monk 1, gain wis bonus to a/c + in class tumble. easily +3 (or better)
rdd 10, breath weapon 6d10
monk doesn't add anything like this, however you've a lot more sorc spells and chances are you can mix in a extra fireball.
hit dice, rdd eventually gets d10, d12 @ epic
monk and palladin get d8, d10 sorc d4, advantage dragon.
rdd 10 - wings!
monk / pally / sorc, saddly no wings.
rdd 10 - darkvision, immunity to sleep, paralysis and fire.
m/p/s - somehow forced to survive w/o darkvision. immunity to sleep is covered by the improved wil saves, fire isn't much of a problem b/c of evasion (or spells), paralysis is countered w/ higher saves or items.
ab progression - rdd has a slight advantage, unless m/p/s uses kama's then it's a little more murky.
dragon stats: really the only standout area for this entire class, can turn even a weenie sorc into an ok fighter otoh only the charisma bonus improves their casting.
m/p/s : forced to rely on spells can buff itself into an ok fighter. synergy around charisma allows player to max it out and improve casting + all saves concurrently.
also worthy of note, m/p/s can use monk & paladin items. also has the option of heavy armour / shield, all non exotic weapons (+ some exotics too) - however for the most part they are better attired in a collection of monk and wiz/sorc gear.
"all around you is tinder for the gods"
aww heck that went on too long: (and i didn't even get to the part where i explain how spells compensate for the lack of d/o criticals)
cliffs notes version:
monk/pally/sorc gains many abilities w/o much negative impact to the sorc. it's very much a pure blaster w/ upside.
sorc / rdd (+pm) = much different animal - gains many abilities including a much improved melee ability w/ negative impact to the sorc, this build is more self buffing ftr than pure blaster.
cliffs notes version:
monk/pally/sorc gains many abilities w/o much negative impact to the sorc. it's very much a pure blaster w/ upside.
sorc / rdd (+pm) = much different animal - gains many abilities including a much improved melee ability w/ negative impact to the sorc, this build is more self buffing ftr than pure blaster.
"all around you is tinder for the gods"
[QUOTE=koz-ivan]evasion
wis bonus to a/c
flurry of blows
in class tumble skill.
ability to use monk items. [/QUOTE]
Flurry is completely pointless for the Sorc 38/Monk 1/Pally 1. I have never had the need, either, to use Monk items. The Monk levels are purely for Defense while sacrificing almost none of your spell casting abilities. Usually the Sorc/Monk/Pally will also take Auto-Still, rendering the WIS bonus irrelevant also.
RDD is simply inferior to Monk (especially with the nerfing of Firebrand), I would much rather taking a few extra Paladin levels for the huge boost to AC from Divine Shield. In regards to the HP, it is only REALLY an important advantage if it pushes you over a Isaac's breakpoint, which it doesn't. The breath weapon is practically pointless. Darkvision and other immunities are also almost useless (use a spell if you want Darkvision or Immunity). Epic feats could probably make up the +2 CHA, and even the STR bonus can't make you a half-decent fighter.
[QUOTE=koz-ivan]sorc / rdd (+pm) = much different animal - gains many abilities including a much improved melee ability w/ negative impact to the sorc, this build is more self buffing ftr than pure blaster.[/QUOTE]
Sorc/RDD will simply not work as it gives up too much offensively (and defensively) to be effective. The RDD bonus in this build is almost negligable. All the buffs you need are Epic Warding and Imp. Invisibility (Energy Buffer shouldn't help as any good mage will be using Isaac's in most cases). It should also be noted that it has less skills then the Bard build and may not have enough for Discipline/Concentration etc.. Simply, and bluntly, put: it has been done and failed.
@Brynn: The importance of PM 10 can not be underestimated. If you are going into melee, you will die very often (especially as a spellsword) to Devastating Critical.
wis bonus to a/c
flurry of blows
in class tumble skill.
ability to use monk items. [/QUOTE]
Flurry is completely pointless for the Sorc 38/Monk 1/Pally 1. I have never had the need, either, to use Monk items. The Monk levels are purely for Defense while sacrificing almost none of your spell casting abilities. Usually the Sorc/Monk/Pally will also take Auto-Still, rendering the WIS bonus irrelevant also.
RDD is simply inferior to Monk (especially with the nerfing of Firebrand), I would much rather taking a few extra Paladin levels for the huge boost to AC from Divine Shield. In regards to the HP, it is only REALLY an important advantage if it pushes you over a Isaac's breakpoint, which it doesn't. The breath weapon is practically pointless. Darkvision and other immunities are also almost useless (use a spell if you want Darkvision or Immunity). Epic feats could probably make up the +2 CHA, and even the STR bonus can't make you a half-decent fighter.
[QUOTE=koz-ivan]sorc / rdd (+pm) = much different animal - gains many abilities including a much improved melee ability w/ negative impact to the sorc, this build is more self buffing ftr than pure blaster.[/QUOTE]
Sorc/RDD will simply not work as it gives up too much offensively (and defensively) to be effective. The RDD bonus in this build is almost negligable. All the buffs you need are Epic Warding and Imp. Invisibility (Energy Buffer shouldn't help as any good mage will be using Isaac's in most cases). It should also be noted that it has less skills then the Bard build and may not have enough for Discipline/Concentration etc.. Simply, and bluntly, put: it has been done and failed.
@Brynn: The importance of PM 10 can not be underestimated. If you are going into melee, you will die very often (especially as a spellsword) to Devastating Critical.
"Heya! Have you been to Baldur's Gate? I've been to Baldur's Gate... Oops, stepped into something. Have you stepped into something?"
[QUOTE=Noober]Flurry is completely pointless for the Sorc 38/Monk 1/Pally 1. I have never had the need, either, to use Monk items. The Monk levels are purely for Defense while sacrificing almost none of your spell casting abilities. Usually the Sorc/Monk/Pally will also take Auto-Still, rendering the WIS bonus irrelevant also.[/quote]
a lot of things are completely pointless for a build w/ 38 sorc levels, doesn't mean that they aren't helpful to get to that point.
the problem i have w/ posts like this is that it's focus is on the end point at level 40 and it ignores the process of getting there.
@ level 40 monk robes aren't the best thing going, but imho for the first 15 levels or so a sorc could do much worse than darkmoon robes and boots of sun soul or striding. it's not a need at the same time it's an added bonus.
a lot of things are completely pointless for a build w/ 38 sorc levels, doesn't mean that they aren't helpful to get to that point.
the problem i have w/ posts like this is that it's focus is on the end point at level 40 and it ignores the process of getting there.
@ level 40 monk robes aren't the best thing going, but imho for the first 15 levels or so a sorc could do much worse than darkmoon robes and boots of sun soul or striding. it's not a need at the same time it's an added bonus.
"all around you is tinder for the gods"
[QUOTE=koz-ivan]the problem i have w/ posts like this is that it's focus is on the end point at level 40 and it ignores the process of getting there. [/QUOTE]
Perhaps then you overlooked that fact that to take advantage of Class Skill Tumble you must take Monk last (i.e. at level 40).
Perhaps then you overlooked that fact that to take advantage of Class Skill Tumble you must take Monk last (i.e. at level 40).
"Heya! Have you been to Baldur's Gate? I've been to Baldur's Gate... Oops, stepped into something. Have you stepped into something?"
I hate to extend this conversation which has little or nothing to do with the title of the thread, but why not sacrifice another 2 levels of Sor levels, so that Monk and Pally levels can both be raised to 2. You get the ability to dodge missles(once/round) and immunity to fear(which is something, compared to nothing)
All you lose is a epic sorceror feat.
All you lose is a epic sorceror feat.
"To die is nothing, but to live defeated is to die every day."
-Napoleon Bonaparte
-Napoleon Bonaparte