Tactics mod = OVERKILL OF DIFFICULTY
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fable
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Sytze, I really think you should submit the entire document to Buck. With perhaps a good one paragraph introduction. It's really suitable for the website. See if he doesn't agree.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
Part 2
Back to the dungeon. Clear the first level, but do not venture into the library. Beat the Greater Otuygh by using a summon to distract it and its decay spell. Then have your party members attack the beast and withdraw all but one, who needs to finish the job, when it’s at near death. The insect plague can be quite annoying. Next go pick up Yoshimo and clear the entire second level, except for the vampire. That creature can be quite hard, but when you have Illyichs equipment you should be safe. You should especially beat the last group of thieves, which, I think, is an Improved Battles component. They are improved, thought not difficult and have a Dagger +2 and some Potions of Invisibility that are quite handy. By this time, Jaheira should already have levelled up, which gives her a few extra spells. Also, keep every spell you find. Don’t memorise it, unless your own mage really needs it or when the spell isn’t useful in the upcoming battle. Now you’re ready to face Illych and co. I haven’t rested until this point, barely used any Druidic spells or potions and lost only a few hit points. This was largely the cause of Minsc his hide in shadows ability (hit and run) and Immies spells.
Start from the round hall and place all the traps you can as far back as possible. Then cast a few spells that last a while, like stoneskin and call on woodland beings. What you should do now, is to hide in shadows and kill the memphit, which somehow can mess things up very well should it spot and attack you. Then lure the Glabrezu, which can see you even though you’re invisible, to the traps. Attack it with the enchanted weapons (the daggers +1, +2 and the staff +1). If you have a thief, let it backstab the creature, move out of sight and repeat the process. That way the Glabrezu will be dead way faster, because, even though it can see you while you’re invisible, the attack still counts as a backstab. Try to have the Glabrezu attack a mage, like Imoen, who can take quite a few hits with stoneskin or mirror image up.
Next, drink an Oil of Speed and try to lure the Golem. Alone. It should be possible, because a Golem is faster than the rest of the duergars and when you’re out of duergar sight, they don’t follow you (most of the time). The Golem is quite annoying, for it can only be hit with the staff +1 or with one of Illychs blunt weapons, but chances are you don’t have those yet. Lure it to the round hall and have Minsc attack it or have a thief backstab it with the staff (you can use the exact same tactics as with the Glabrezu). Make sure you don’t spoil a trap on this thing, because it won’t have any effect! Remember, it’s quite important to take these two creatures out first, because they can only be hit by certain weapons and, in turn, can hit quite hard themselves.
Now you should also try to lure your other opponents out one by one. Use the still lasting Oil of Speed while doing so. Hide in shadows, shoot at them, run back, shoot, run to the hall, you get the picture. If you pick them one by one they’re very easy. Walk around the pit in the middle of the room and have your ranged weapon characters take the duergars out. Should you be able to lure them out one by one, you barely need any spells to finish the job. Perhaps you can leave Immie behind and let her cast the occasional spell or summon a monster. Keep in mind that Illyich and co. run from the library to the armour room and therefore luring them one by one should be possible.
In my case I encountered the monk Rasputin and the cleric Zivago first. I hit the monk, who came running after Minsc and could follow him quite well, even though he had used the Oil of Speed. Zivago, in the meantime, summoned a Deva. So while Rasputin followed Minsc into the round hall, Zivago stayed behind, casting a spell. The monk was quickly dead, since he is quite vulnerable to ranged attacks. Then wait until the Deva is unsummoned. If you have a lot of luck, it will cast bladebarrier and might hurt Illiych and co. or one of the duergars on guard there. After beating the Monk there’s a chance one of your characters will level up. Perhaps you want to rest again, so you can refill your spells and the set traps ability.
After this, you can lure the rest quite easy. Summon a few monsters when you encounter Illyich and keep him distracted. Make sure he doesn’t use his slow ability on one of your characters, but use a summon instead. The slow ability can disable your party very easy, so watch out! Karamazov, the crossbow user, should be handled carefully. Again, have her shoot at summons while you shoot at her from a distance, or make sure she targets someone who has stoneskin, mirror image or ironskin up.
However, should you by any chance be attacked by the entire group, then you have to rely on your spells and summons. Don’t panic, for not all is lost. When you do have the entire group coming after you, try to have the melee duergars go after a character that’s hasted. Once again; make sure Illyich won’t use his slow ability on your own characters!! Use the wand of monster summoning right away. Try to keep spell casters away from the battle, so they can keep the summons, spells, and what else you like to throw at those duergars, coming. In the heat of battle you should try to activate your strongest spells and abilities. Also, have your characters switch to the weapons styles they’re best at. Concentrate on one duergar. You cannot afford to let the battle take too long! Kill the cleric Zivago first or make sure you disrupt his spells every now and then with arrows and magic missiles, perhaps even an acid arrow. Disable the monk Rasputin second, because his stunning blow ability can be quite annoying. Then go either after Illyich himself or Karamazov. It depends who is the most dangerous. Personally, I would go after Karamazov. Why? Because she does a lot of damage and unlike Illyich doesn’t need to chase anyone in order to kill. Furthermore, do not be afraid to use your potions immediately when you get hit. Those duergars do a lot of damage and a potion can barely make up for just one hit.
Once you’ve beaten Illyich and co. you’re pretty safe. The few areas you haven’t cleared in the dungeon will be quite easy from now on. Good luck!
@fable: very well. I do not have every battle written out though, only this one. Since I'm guessing Buck prefers to have everything in one go, instead of recieving a lot of parts, I think it will have to wait a while.
Back to the dungeon. Clear the first level, but do not venture into the library. Beat the Greater Otuygh by using a summon to distract it and its decay spell. Then have your party members attack the beast and withdraw all but one, who needs to finish the job, when it’s at near death. The insect plague can be quite annoying. Next go pick up Yoshimo and clear the entire second level, except for the vampire. That creature can be quite hard, but when you have Illyichs equipment you should be safe. You should especially beat the last group of thieves, which, I think, is an Improved Battles component. They are improved, thought not difficult and have a Dagger +2 and some Potions of Invisibility that are quite handy. By this time, Jaheira should already have levelled up, which gives her a few extra spells. Also, keep every spell you find. Don’t memorise it, unless your own mage really needs it or when the spell isn’t useful in the upcoming battle. Now you’re ready to face Illych and co. I haven’t rested until this point, barely used any Druidic spells or potions and lost only a few hit points. This was largely the cause of Minsc his hide in shadows ability (hit and run) and Immies spells.
Start from the round hall and place all the traps you can as far back as possible. Then cast a few spells that last a while, like stoneskin and call on woodland beings. What you should do now, is to hide in shadows and kill the memphit, which somehow can mess things up very well should it spot and attack you. Then lure the Glabrezu, which can see you even though you’re invisible, to the traps. Attack it with the enchanted weapons (the daggers +1, +2 and the staff +1). If you have a thief, let it backstab the creature, move out of sight and repeat the process. That way the Glabrezu will be dead way faster, because, even though it can see you while you’re invisible, the attack still counts as a backstab. Try to have the Glabrezu attack a mage, like Imoen, who can take quite a few hits with stoneskin or mirror image up.
Next, drink an Oil of Speed and try to lure the Golem. Alone. It should be possible, because a Golem is faster than the rest of the duergars and when you’re out of duergar sight, they don’t follow you (most of the time). The Golem is quite annoying, for it can only be hit with the staff +1 or with one of Illychs blunt weapons, but chances are you don’t have those yet. Lure it to the round hall and have Minsc attack it or have a thief backstab it with the staff (you can use the exact same tactics as with the Glabrezu). Make sure you don’t spoil a trap on this thing, because it won’t have any effect! Remember, it’s quite important to take these two creatures out first, because they can only be hit by certain weapons and, in turn, can hit quite hard themselves.
Now you should also try to lure your other opponents out one by one. Use the still lasting Oil of Speed while doing so. Hide in shadows, shoot at them, run back, shoot, run to the hall, you get the picture. If you pick them one by one they’re very easy. Walk around the pit in the middle of the room and have your ranged weapon characters take the duergars out. Should you be able to lure them out one by one, you barely need any spells to finish the job. Perhaps you can leave Immie behind and let her cast the occasional spell or summon a monster. Keep in mind that Illyich and co. run from the library to the armour room and therefore luring them one by one should be possible.
In my case I encountered the monk Rasputin and the cleric Zivago first. I hit the monk, who came running after Minsc and could follow him quite well, even though he had used the Oil of Speed. Zivago, in the meantime, summoned a Deva. So while Rasputin followed Minsc into the round hall, Zivago stayed behind, casting a spell. The monk was quickly dead, since he is quite vulnerable to ranged attacks. Then wait until the Deva is unsummoned. If you have a lot of luck, it will cast bladebarrier and might hurt Illiych and co. or one of the duergars on guard there. After beating the Monk there’s a chance one of your characters will level up. Perhaps you want to rest again, so you can refill your spells and the set traps ability.
After this, you can lure the rest quite easy. Summon a few monsters when you encounter Illyich and keep him distracted. Make sure he doesn’t use his slow ability on one of your characters, but use a summon instead. The slow ability can disable your party very easy, so watch out! Karamazov, the crossbow user, should be handled carefully. Again, have her shoot at summons while you shoot at her from a distance, or make sure she targets someone who has stoneskin, mirror image or ironskin up.
However, should you by any chance be attacked by the entire group, then you have to rely on your spells and summons. Don’t panic, for not all is lost. When you do have the entire group coming after you, try to have the melee duergars go after a character that’s hasted. Once again; make sure Illyich won’t use his slow ability on your own characters!! Use the wand of monster summoning right away. Try to keep spell casters away from the battle, so they can keep the summons, spells, and what else you like to throw at those duergars, coming. In the heat of battle you should try to activate your strongest spells and abilities. Also, have your characters switch to the weapons styles they’re best at. Concentrate on one duergar. You cannot afford to let the battle take too long! Kill the cleric Zivago first or make sure you disrupt his spells every now and then with arrows and magic missiles, perhaps even an acid arrow. Disable the monk Rasputin second, because his stunning blow ability can be quite annoying. Then go either after Illyich himself or Karamazov. It depends who is the most dangerous. Personally, I would go after Karamazov. Why? Because she does a lot of damage and unlike Illyich doesn’t need to chase anyone in order to kill. Furthermore, do not be afraid to use your potions immediately when you get hit. Those duergars do a lot of damage and a potion can barely make up for just one hit.
Once you’ve beaten Illyich and co. you’re pretty safe. The few areas you haven’t cleared in the dungeon will be quite easy from now on. Good luck!
@fable: very well. I do not have every battle written out though, only this one. Since I'm guessing Buck prefers to have everything in one go, instead of recieving a lot of parts, I think it will have to wait a while.
"Sometimes Dreams are wiser than waking"
How can the staff+1 be the key to beating the JG when I imported a paladin from another save game who couldn't beat the one in the weapons and armor room with a 2H sword +2??? Are you telling me the JG can only be hurt by crushing damage? 'Cos one one try I had beat all but the JG, and I picked up the club +2 that (Illych?) one of the duergar had, and STILL couldn't hurt it!
D'oh! I'm an idiot... I didn't think about going to the second level before killing Illych and co....
D'oh! I'm an idiot... I didn't think about going to the second level before killing Illych and co....
Scribbles: http://vorgoeth.deviantart.com/
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every second of it
Thoughts: https://vorgoeth.wordpress.com/
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every second of it
But... But.... But.... Illych has this Club +2, right? So I beat the snot out of everything else than the JG, quickly loot the corpse of Illych and start attacking with the club. Now last time I looked clubs did crushing damage. So why the fsck didn't it DIE???
Ah nevermind... I did manage to beat it in the end... used jaheira's fire-blade thingy spell a few times, trapped JG in a doorway and rested and repeated the procedure.
Ah nevermind... I did manage to beat it in the end... used jaheira's fire-blade thingy spell a few times, trapped JG in a doorway and rested and repeated the procedure.
Scribbles: http://vorgoeth.deviantart.com/
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every second of it
Thoughts: https://vorgoeth.wordpress.com/
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every second of it
To paraphrase Sytze's comment from a prior thread:
[QUOTE=Sytze][When using the Tactics Mod,] basically, it's a matter of summons, invisibility/hide in shadows, patience and luring the enemies one by one.[/QUOTE]
Yep, Sytze, I think you've crystalized the gist of the overall strategy.
I especially agree with the patience and luring part.
And if I may, I'd also like to add another: running away.
From my own limited experience as a neophyte solo player (I'm currently attempting my first solo game of SOA, Tactics mod installed, using a low-level F/M/T that is currently too weak to contest multiple-foe battles successfully), I've found no shame at all in running away while under attack on multiple fronts, especially if this strategy provides the chance to isolate the attackers and bump them off one by one.
In fact, notwithstanding the undignified appearance of running off, I've found it a perfectly sensible strategy to employ in Tactics mod battles, particulary in the early chapters of the game as a first-time solo player, due to the fact the median level of Tactics fighting is so challenging and en masse melee battles frequently result in messy death.
When my character reaches the higher levels, the running away might cease. [Or maybe not. I'll see.]
[QUOTE=Sytze][When using the Tactics Mod,] basically, it's a matter of summons, invisibility/hide in shadows, patience and luring the enemies one by one.[/QUOTE]
Yep, Sytze, I think you've crystalized the gist of the overall strategy.
I especially agree with the patience and luring part.
And if I may, I'd also like to add another: running away.
From my own limited experience as a neophyte solo player (I'm currently attempting my first solo game of SOA, Tactics mod installed, using a low-level F/M/T that is currently too weak to contest multiple-foe battles successfully), I've found no shame at all in running away while under attack on multiple fronts, especially if this strategy provides the chance to isolate the attackers and bump them off one by one.
In fact, notwithstanding the undignified appearance of running off, I've found it a perfectly sensible strategy to employ in Tactics mod battles, particulary in the early chapters of the game as a first-time solo player, due to the fact the median level of Tactics fighting is so challenging and en masse melee battles frequently result in messy death.
When my character reaches the higher levels, the running away might cease. [Or maybe not. I'll see.]
My opinion is that tactics is not for everyone. I personally like to be the hero and don't like using exploits. I prefer to have the most kills rather than summoned monsters. I don't like the divide and conquer strategy because I feel like it would be improbable vs a more experienced opponent. "Hey, someone is escaping. All the rest of you guards enjoy your coffee and donuts, I'll take care of it by myself." ??? Do you think that you could really kill them one by one without alerting the rest that something is wrong? Again, I think that is improbable. It's also a little tedious to lure and ambush.
Still, Tactics is a series of installable mods. I don't like the idea of the computer making it easier on me when I choose to play with 3 characters instead of 6. One of the submods makes sure that you always face the toughest random encounters. I install this when I enter (spoiler)
the Underdark. By then, I don't have to run from adamantine golems. Other mods can introduce new challenges and make boring territories more interesting.
Still, Tactics is a series of installable mods. I don't like the idea of the computer making it easier on me when I choose to play with 3 characters instead of 6. One of the submods makes sure that you always face the toughest random encounters. I install this when I enter (spoiler)
the Underdark. By then, I don't have to run from adamantine golems. Other mods can introduce new challenges and make boring territories more interesting.
[QUOTE=rbeverjr]My opinion is that tactics is not for everyone.[/QUOTE]
It certainly isn't.
Those who've played the vanilla game and desire a greater challenge might be the ones to give the Tactics mod a try.
But it does require patience.
[QUOTE=rbeverjr] I don't like the divide and conquer strategy because I feel like it would be improbable vs a more experienced opponent... Do you think that you could really kill them one by one without alerting the rest that something is wrong? Again, I think that is improbable. It's also a little tedious....[/QUOTE]
Since the Tactics mod and all its component parts are difficult to beat, I'll seize any advantage it grudges me, no matter how meagre, especially as I'm currently playing solo with a Fighter/Mage/Thief that is still relatively weak and vulnerable at level 10.
Therefore, if I can divide and conquer (or in other words, lure away individual foes and bump them off),
I'll gladly do so.
Matter of fact, as I play deeper into my first solo SoA effort (which is also my first solo game, period), with the Tactics mod installed, that's pretty much what I've been doing, with the action tending to follow the below pattern:
a) I encounter the enemy in location X. Right away, I reload from a game-save point just prior to the encounter (I do a lot of game saves), then I rest, buff up, save the game again and move forward until the enemy attacks.
b) If it's a multiple enemy that attacks me en masse, I run away, leaving the brunt of the opposition behind, while luring just one opponent out of range of the others into one-on-one combat, where I bump it off.
c) I reload, rebuff, and creep back toward the enemy incrementally until the lead foe blinks into view and turns red. I then run away with he/she/it chasing, and stop when I'm out of sight of the other foes, whereupon I engage the pursuer and bump it off.
d) After doing a game save, I reload, rebuff and repeat C until the enemy is destroyed.
I find this A,B,C,D approach to be relatively straightforward, albeit repetetive, especially at the start, but certainly not difficult.
Patience is definitely key.
Roleplay purists might frown on it.
Me, I'm more liberal in that regard.
As I said above, if the Tactics mod allows me to play a game this way and win, especially a solo game, I'll gladly do so.
For example, here's what I did in the Druid Grove while seeking out the marauding rakshasha for the genies back in Trademeet.
1) Using A,B,C,D, I successfully cleared out the trolls that infested the pathway half the distance to the rackshasha's house at the other end of the grove.
2) In order to travel safely the rest of the way there, I changed strategy and used invisibilty/hide-in-the-shadows, which allowed me to slip past the remaining massed enemies and enter the rakshasha's house undetected. Inside, I bumped off the rackshasha and her minions in a brisk fight, snagged her head for the Trademeet genies as proof of job well done, did a game-save and sneaked back the way I came, hiding in the shadows, unscathed.
I found this action to be relatively straightforward, albeit repetitive, especially at the start, but certainly not difficult.
Patience is definitely paramount.
Caveat: before you say, "Hey, great, Elvis. I'll install the Tactics mod and try the Druid's Grove right away," keep in mind that the other major action there, confronting Improved Faldorn, reaches a higher plane of difficulty altogether. In fact, I'd go so far as saying that fighting Improved Faldorn straight up, solo, with no cheating, is insanely hard to impossible. Luckily, one can choose to avoid that fight without affecting the game's overall story arc.
Fight Improved Faldorn if you must, but be warned: it's maddening.
Note: Unlike the many distinguished BG lore masters who contribute to this board, I'm strictly a BG hobbyist who plays the occasional game for fun. I don't claim to possess any profound knowledge of the finer points of game play. Ergo, if you've read this far, thank you for your interest, but take care to digest my comments with a grain of salt.
It certainly isn't.
Those who've played the vanilla game and desire a greater challenge might be the ones to give the Tactics mod a try.
But it does require patience.
[QUOTE=rbeverjr] I don't like the divide and conquer strategy because I feel like it would be improbable vs a more experienced opponent... Do you think that you could really kill them one by one without alerting the rest that something is wrong? Again, I think that is improbable. It's also a little tedious....[/QUOTE]
Since the Tactics mod and all its component parts are difficult to beat, I'll seize any advantage it grudges me, no matter how meagre, especially as I'm currently playing solo with a Fighter/Mage/Thief that is still relatively weak and vulnerable at level 10.
Therefore, if I can divide and conquer (or in other words, lure away individual foes and bump them off),
I'll gladly do so.
Matter of fact, as I play deeper into my first solo SoA effort (which is also my first solo game, period), with the Tactics mod installed, that's pretty much what I've been doing, with the action tending to follow the below pattern:
a) I encounter the enemy in location X. Right away, I reload from a game-save point just prior to the encounter (I do a lot of game saves), then I rest, buff up, save the game again and move forward until the enemy attacks.
b) If it's a multiple enemy that attacks me en masse, I run away, leaving the brunt of the opposition behind, while luring just one opponent out of range of the others into one-on-one combat, where I bump it off.
c) I reload, rebuff, and creep back toward the enemy incrementally until the lead foe blinks into view and turns red. I then run away with he/she/it chasing, and stop when I'm out of sight of the other foes, whereupon I engage the pursuer and bump it off.
d) After doing a game save, I reload, rebuff and repeat C until the enemy is destroyed.
I find this A,B,C,D approach to be relatively straightforward, albeit repetetive, especially at the start, but certainly not difficult.
Patience is definitely key.
Roleplay purists might frown on it.
Me, I'm more liberal in that regard.
As I said above, if the Tactics mod allows me to play a game this way and win, especially a solo game, I'll gladly do so.
For example, here's what I did in the Druid Grove while seeking out the marauding rakshasha for the genies back in Trademeet.
1) Using A,B,C,D, I successfully cleared out the trolls that infested the pathway half the distance to the rackshasha's house at the other end of the grove.
2) In order to travel safely the rest of the way there, I changed strategy and used invisibilty/hide-in-the-shadows, which allowed me to slip past the remaining massed enemies and enter the rakshasha's house undetected. Inside, I bumped off the rackshasha and her minions in a brisk fight, snagged her head for the Trademeet genies as proof of job well done, did a game-save and sneaked back the way I came, hiding in the shadows, unscathed.
I found this action to be relatively straightforward, albeit repetitive, especially at the start, but certainly not difficult.
Patience is definitely paramount.
Caveat: before you say, "Hey, great, Elvis. I'll install the Tactics mod and try the Druid's Grove right away," keep in mind that the other major action there, confronting Improved Faldorn, reaches a higher plane of difficulty altogether. In fact, I'd go so far as saying that fighting Improved Faldorn straight up, solo, with no cheating, is insanely hard to impossible. Luckily, one can choose to avoid that fight without affecting the game's overall story arc.
Fight Improved Faldorn if you must, but be warned: it's maddening.
Note: Unlike the many distinguished BG lore masters who contribute to this board, I'm strictly a BG hobbyist who plays the occasional game for fun. I don't claim to possess any profound knowledge of the finer points of game play. Ergo, if you've read this far, thank you for your interest, but take care to digest my comments with a grain of salt.
I got one question guys:
Since one week I'am planing my perfektambushIMBAasskick party with 6 self created characters for one more BG2+ToB run with several balanced mods. One of the mods will be tactics!!! So now I got the question which difficulty I should chose? Last time I played the game on "extremly difficult" without any mod but that was quite easy... in my option just a few fights were very hard with 20 tries until i finally won... the rest ok. Now with tactics???? Shall I got for "extremy difficult" again or better try "normal" or "core rules" first???
Since one week I'am planing my perfektambushIMBAasskick party with 6 self created characters for one more BG2+ToB run with several balanced mods. One of the mods will be tactics!!! So now I got the question which difficulty I should chose? Last time I played the game on "extremly difficult" without any mod but that was quite easy... in my option just a few fights were very hard with 20 tries until i finally won... the rest ok. Now with tactics???? Shall I got for "extremy difficult" again or better try "normal" or "core rules" first???
"Easy" tactics is harder than "impossible" vanilla game, no doubt. Most of the time, the only difference between core and impossible is the damage output of the enemies that, let's face it, in a game such as BG doesn't matter all that much.
In all due respect, there are few players able to go from vanilla game to playing tactics right away, even if they're used to playing on impossible. Certain encounters, like Illyich, Kuroisan, improved liches and mindflayers is difficult in a way nothing in the vanilla games comes close to.
But it's BG2, a game where you can change the difficulty instantly. Play whatever you like and modify it if it's too easy/difficult. Ain't that hard.
In all due respect, there are few players able to go from vanilla game to playing tactics right away, even if they're used to playing on impossible. Certain encounters, like Illyich, Kuroisan, improved liches and mindflayers is difficult in a way nothing in the vanilla games comes close to.
But it's BG2, a game where you can change the difficulty instantly. Play whatever you like and modify it if it's too easy/difficult. Ain't that hard.