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Followup: I took care of the gargoyle for Abrams. The quest listing mentioned talking to the Tremere regent, in whose chantry I'd earlier found the book on gargoyles. I don't recall it saying that when I first played the game (as a Ventrue), though that was over a year ago and I could be wrong. Anyway, I went and talked to Strauss, who gave me his bit of detail on the gargoyle and offered me the charm of protection, as well as explaining why having the gargoyle gone would be good for him. After I was done with the gargoyle, Abrams was pleased but didn't mention a reward - I'm pretty sure he's supposed to give you something. I returned to Strauss, who was very pleased and talked about my standing rising within the chantry. No mention of the haven, however. I loaded the pre-talk game and tried again, this time asking Strauss for 'cash' right out, rather than solely using the 'loyal Tremere' chats. He angrily answered that I'd been compensated by Abrams (pre-programmed, of course) but promised far greater rewards if I continued to serve the clan well. So... I'm not sure if there's something else I can do for him later to get the haven reward, or if this is it.

I've played this game a few times as a Tremere and never did get the haven. I too did the plaguebearer quest from Damsel rather than Strauss. Mentioned it him after the fact and took the cash. I guess I screwed up.

So lets say now I replay it and I get the Plaguebearer quest from Strauss first and after completing it, go tell him first and take the talisman this time instead of the cash.

Ok so then in Hollywood where Issac wants me to take care of the Gargoyle. If I let the Gargoyle live, and tell Isaac that, then what? Once I either kill the stonedude or let him stay stoned, am I supposed to go back to Strauss first and tell him or tell Issac first and then go to Strauss. I ask this because in my conversations with Strauss, never did the Gargoyle ever come up.

What a stupid ass I am playing as a Tremere a few times and was always wondering why LaCroix never gave me another haven. And never figuring out I was supposed to get it from Straus (or figuring out how to). Jeez, somebody bite me!

For the gargoyle I think you need to destroy it and talk to Strauss. Its also important that you do not tell Isaac that the gargoyle was made by Strauss.

It does matter what order you do them in, well it did matter.

Orginally it was crafted and written to compete chapter 2 before moving on to chapter 3 but Wesp5 is fixing it to allow that quest for the Tremere Haven to be completed in any order, coming with Unoffical patch 2.5.

The way the game seems to be writen (maybe due to the short develepment time) chapters often requre you compete quest or steps to be able to procede, afaik from looking at dialogue files.

Orginally it was crafted and written to compete chapter 2 before moving on to chapter 3 but Wesp5 is fixing it to allow that quest for the Tremere Haven to be completed in any order, coming with Unoffical patch 2.5.

In the release notes for the 2.4 patch is this.

Gaining the Tremere haven is now independent from the quests order

So it appears this has been done already? I wonder how this is going to be done being Downtown is not even available until completing the stuff in San Monica. I'm going to start my game over again as a Tremere and see how this plays out. Maybe my dumb ass will figure out how to get the Tremere Haven this time!

[QUOTE=Mike89]In the release notes for the 2.4 patch is this.
So it appears this has been done already? I wonder how this is going to be done being Downtown is not even available until completing the stuff in San Monica. I'm going to start my game over again as a Tremere and see how this plays out. Maybe my dumb ass will figure out how to get the Tremere Haven this time![/QUOTE]
First, I speak extant of anything past the 1.2 patch. Never been there, never done that. Having said that, beyond what I've already said, I note some concerns about leaving the Gargoyle alive. You can, and still get the Tremere haven. The rule with the Gargoyle is that you 'take care of it'. You don't have to kill it. If you can convince it to be loyal to Isaac, then you get the bonii from Isaac and the haven from Max. Hence, if you've got the stones to talk down an angry Gargoyle, it's the best way to go. Then you can try for a position as a hostage negotiator with the LAPD

I didn't know you could do both get the gargolye for Abrams and get the haven, intresting.

"then you get the bonii from Isaac"
What is a bonii?

[QUOTE=Acleacius]I didn't know you could do both get the gargolye for Abrams and get the haven, intresting.

"then you get the bonii from Isaac"
What is a bonii?[/QUOTE]

It's a latinization of the plural of "bonus", which is nominally "bonuses", a word that always looked very wrong to me, and sounded positively revolting.

<knowitall>
actually, it should be "boni" from latin ;-)
</knowitall>

now, a question, if I may: What exactly are the boni received from Isaac for talking the Gargoyle into loyalty to him? All I ever got was a pad on the back, along the lines of "maybe you cammy scum aren't all bad".
So, is that a matter of the unofficial patch (currently using 2.3 w/ 1.2) or are there conditions bound to it?

What is a bonii?

Well it could be a bonus or a boner, depending how you look at it. Or, if you are of that persuasion, a boner could be a bonus. Ok, I'm done, I'm out of Bonii jokes. I'm off to try out the Bonii on the wife, see if I can get a bonus!

*****spoilers*****

[QUOTE=Shizz]now, a question, if I may: What exactly are the boni received from Isaac for talking the Gargoyle into loyalty to him? All I ever got was a pad on the back, along the lines of "maybe you cammy scum aren't all bad".
So, is that a matter of the unofficial patch (currently using 2.3 w/ 1.2) or are there conditions bound to it?[/QUOTE]

If you can talk the gargoyle into being loyal to Isaac, you get additional XP for finishing the quest. That's speaking extant of anything after official patch V1.2, however. Lord only knows what they did with the quest after that. By 2.3 maybe you get a Lamborghini Countach or a Lancia Stratos with a lingerie model for a chauffeur. To that, I cannot provide any form of accurate reply. You have the 2.3 patch. You can tell me.

About this "maybe you cammy scum aren't all bad" dialog, I don't think I ever got that, but OTOH, I've never actually killed the gargoyle, either (no reason - he never did anything to me, and besides, pounding on rock ruins my nails). That might be predicated on your relationship with Isaac (maybe you took one of the *ahem* less respectful dialog options when you got to Hollywood?)

I'll plow through the patch readme as soon as I'm a bit less tired and thus a bit more attentive. ;-)

As for the dialog: Isaac used more polite words to express himself, but that was more or less the bottom line of what he meant.
Thanks anyway!

While you may be able to complete it by getting it to serve Issac, if by bonii you mean the Occult Dexterity amulet then you get that whether you kill it or convince it to serve Issac, after returning the Sarcophagus.

Though the best I can tell by looking at the experience chart you get more for convincing it to serve Issac.
Maybe someone with the orginal install or just official patch 1.2 will check there Experience_table.txt in the Vampire\vdata\system folder and let us know what it was orginally.

Under, > Gargoyle Quest, like you will see two set of experience one is recommmended, will have a less than sign next to it and likly right under the Gargoyle Quest name.

Second set of experience will have no less than sign before it and will be the actual experience being used by the game.

There is no difference between the 1.2 exp chart for the gargoyle quest and the 2.5 exp chart. In each file, the section for this quest looks like this:

>
> Gargoyle Quest
> Total Experience Value: 3
>
> Gargoyle01 | Destroyed Gargoyle | 601
> Gargoyle02 | Convinced Gargoyle to ally with Isaac | 901
> Gargoyle03 | Told Isaac about Regent and Gargoyle | 301
>
Gargoyle01 | Destroyed Gargoyle | 301
Gargoyle02 | Convinced Gargoyle to ally with Isaac | 301
Gargoyle03 | Told Isaac about Regent and Gargoyle | 201

I'm not sure how to read this, though. Is the total expereince value listed supposed to be the maximum possible exp? What's with all the 601, 901, 301 stuff?

I don't know the coding, I just play the game, but I'd think that those numbers affiliate to certain dialog responses from Maximillian Strauss or Isaac.

You get 2xp for telling Isaac Strauss's secret.

You can get the PlagueBearer quest from Cammy first. If you do, then go to Strauss before doing the quest. In the conversation the PlagueBearer subject comes up and you can tell him you are investigating it for Cammie. He expresses his displeasure but then there is an option where you tell him you can also do it for him. He agrees. Then when that quest is done, go back and tell him. (I told him before I told Cammie but I think it doesn't matter which one you told first, I didn't test that.) Then he offers either cash or the talisman. Take the talisman.

Later when Isaac mentions the Gargoyle quest (this doesn't come up until after you brought him the first tape), don't immediately go to the Gargoyle. Go back to Strauss first (if you do the Gargoyle and then go to Strauss, the Gargoyle subject won't come up). The Gargoyle subject comes up. He says that Isaac cannot know his involvement (that he created the Gargoyle). Then go back and deal with the Gargoyle. It doesn't matter if you kill the Gargoyle or not. Either kill him or make him Isaac's ally. Then go back to Isaac and tell him what you did regarding the Gargoyle. Do not tell him anything about Strauss. Then go back to Strauss and discuss the Gargoyle. It does not get specific what you did (either killing it or making it the ally), just that you took care of it. Then Strauss gives you the haven.