GameBanshee Forums

@Raven Song

Thanks for the encouragement regarding the Hands of Fury. I played them to the yuan-ti portal and had no problem. If I hadn't horribly mislevelled them (from what I am planning to do) I'd just go from there.

Again thanks. I will let you know if I can beat HOF (or normal for that matter hehe)

@ Ravager and Dedigan

You have helped me a lot in shooting down some of my earlier creations and arriving at a better product. Ultimately I choose what is posted in colors (by me) because its fun to make your own choices and everyone has there own oppinion. I will look again and see if I have some specific questions (ie help to sort out thumbnail rules from fact from myth) for another post. I can see how much fun its going to be when I finally create my own party based on what fantasy icons etc grab me (with strategy and crushing the enemy in mind too)

Again thanks. Also I will try to respond more specifically to each of your ideas in another post.

[QUOTE=Ravager]Myrophine, I was looking at my startegy guide to check the class feats to help you decide when to multi-class. Are you sure you want to know all this stuff ? Normally when something is picked apart this much, for me, it just spoils some of the enjoyment.


ADDITION: I don't know if the spell Draw Upon Holy Might has a cap. Most of these spells that increase by level do.



I would go for the above on Makados, except change the Rogue to Bard - You already have have a high-level competent rogue.

Daheel: I really don' think theres a huge range of options...F4 for WS and 3 feats. He has no casting stat and impressive physical ones. I'd go



Maybe go for more Fighter levels and long as Daheel has reached level 20+. Then put points into weapon specialisations to increase his to hit chances.

Harbesh: I would cut out the Wizard levels and split equally between Fighter and Rogue. You should get some reasonable feats 10+ for the rogue. Probably stop with the rogue around level 20 max.

How many classes do you want Amraith to have?! Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Barbarian,Wizard?! . That will be a huge XP penalty for him. Stick with Fighter, Ranger and Wizard. Concentrate on Fighter and Ranger, and put points into his ranged weapon skills.

Mirai: Go Barbarian/Wizard for the HP boost. You won't be able to wear heavy armour, but that's bad for wizards anyway. Focus mainly on the wizard levels.


So basically, I agree with Dedigan .[/QUOTE]

I didn't know how to quote multiple times or I could've made it easier to read...

1) I know what you mean about analysis vs. playing... I find both fun but sometimes one over the other. One thing I've learned is that an ounce of planning and saving is worth a pound of replaying once your tired of the same orcs and goblins

2) AFAIK the Draw upon holy might (DUHM) has no cap till 30! That would be 10 to str con and dex or a tensors on steroids.

3) Makados - I guess great minds think alike? well at least I hope thats the reason I changed Mak to a cleric bard. He really didn't have the physical stats to make a good fighter mix (even considering the DUHM spell) IMO. He's better as the cleric (since he's stuck with 1 cleric level why not?). Add in bard for songs to help amraiths AC (ie war chant of sith) in HOF...and why not have the 1st bard song in normal mode and still where armor. So here I got a good idea from you ie switch him to bard NOT sorceror as I had intended.

4)Dahel - I don't understand why one would put more than 4 levels of fighter in? you CAN take WS feats at non fighter level ups (unlike NWN I think). By 30 levels You have enough feats for a pure warrior (see the great cleave thread for example...)

5) Mirai - I like Barb/Wizard for HP (she starts with con 14 too) but I might get 4 F levels for 3 feats if I need caster feats. Also 3 levels of Rogue is good since...you hear me right....it is possible to backstab with Mordenkainens (sic) sword from a distance.

6) Harbesh - I prefer to keep the wizard levels for defensive purposes since this guy is not a barb (HP/con bonus in rage/damage resistance). Otherwise I will need more resurrection than I have!!! 3 levels = mirror image 5 = blink...since I will need a lot of rogue levels to make a guy with 10 dexterity into a good thief why not take 10 rogue levels? Well we get xp penalty unless wizard is also high!! But that hurts our fighting right? But theres a nice 6th level spell to give you those fighter AB back (not BAB unfortunately). So we make it wizard11. What to do from there is quite bewildering for me but I can figure out what to do later hehe. How much mage to take? stop at 11/11? what about 15/15 for a serious mordenkainens backstab? Add fighter levels in the mix? Does WS swords help out with mordenkainens or black blade of disaster? Who knows?

Question: Any reason to take more than 11 levels of rogue in IWD? You already have a healthy backstab (remember not every attack constitutes a backstab) and access to slippery mind/improved evasion/crippling strike. You have all the rogue skills you need AFAIK since many get by with a Rogue1/WizardX? With 16 intelligence you would have enough skill points at "non-rogue" level ups to boost your search/disable skills to max. At HOF level you'll have high strenght for bashing and 1 - 2 knock spells to spare. I don't know what you get from pickpocketing except 1 item!! You'll have enough stealth. A 30 level rogue deals 15 d6 no save extra backstab damage. But they have no MI blink stoneskin blur tensors low HP lower feats than a fighter(and BAB).

7)Amraith - I needed a cleric (had to make fissera part sorceror to fulfill my dream of making an evil Merlin ) but I can wait untill HOF. Also wanted to experiment with ultimate AC (ie72+ in HOF). I'm not sure if I achieved both but I think the AC can get very high with mage/cleric self buffs + war chant from makados + barkskin from fissera + plus decanter arm bands + other generic ac items? + dodge and expertise set to 5 + high base dexterity and the super nifty armor with no dexterity max.

8) Fissera - You didn't mention him but I'll explain my reasons/assumptions. I've been told that Druid isn't as good as arcane in HOF since no WOB/lesser spell selection (I even have Weidu spell mod). Druid WOULD be good with Weidu shapeshift mod but I don't like that one as I never played a druid for combat shapes in PnP and won't start now (until I get bored/or curious).
ALSO the party needs another arcane caster since Makados shifted to bard and amraith to (mainly) cleric. Harbesh needs to be a rogue early and would take an xp hit anyway.

Triple posting now, Myrophine. Tsk.
I got told off for doing that in the Heathen Citadel thread .

triple posting, we don't like it. Place your head on the sacrifi... -eh- nice red table over here.

3) Makados - I guess great minds think alike? well at least I hope thats the reason I changed Mak to a cleric bard. He really didn't have the physical stats to make a good fighter mix (even considering the DUHM spell) IMO. He's better as the cleric (since he's stuck with 1 cleric level why not?). Add in bard for songs to help amraiths AC (ie war chant of sith) in HOF...and why not have the 1st bard song in normal mode and still where armor. So here I got a good idea from you ie switch him to bard NOT sorceror as I had intended.

Put in quite a lot of bard levels for better songs. The best one regenerates the party, I use that quite a lot . Just make sure it doesn't compromise his divine spells. Armoured Arcane feats may be useful so he can cast his bard spells while reasonably armoured.

4)Dahel - I don't understand why one would put more than 4 levels of fighter in? you CAN take WS feats at non fighter level ups (unlike NWN I think). By 30 levels You have enough feats for a pure warrior (see the great cleave thread for example...)

You are probably right. I contributed to that thread. I'm the one championing Great Cleave... You may get better THACO as a fighter though.

5) Mirai - I like Barb/Wizard for HP (she starts with con 14 too) but I might get 4 F levels for 3 feats if I need caster feats. Also 3 levels of Rogue is good since...you hear me right....it is possible to backstab with Mordenkainens (sic) sword from a distance.

I don't think the wizard feats are really worthwhile multi-classing to fighter for. Mordenkainen's Sword (I'm sure I spelt that wrong ) isn't like in Baldur's Gate is it? If it appears in the Wizard's hand then I suppose you would be able to Sneak Attack with it. Stay with Barb/Wiz/Rogue so you get 40% XP penalty rather than 60% and maybe get your feats in those classes. 60% penalty will REALLY make a difference later on.

6) Harbesh - I prefer to keep the wizard levels for defensive purposes since this guy is not a barb (HP/con bonus in rage/damage resistance). Otherwise I will need more resurrection than I have!!! 3 levels = mirror image 5 = blink...since I will need a lot of rogue levels to make a guy with 10 dexterity into a good thief why not take 10 rogue levels? Well we get xp penalty unless wizard is also high!! But that hurts our fighting right? But theres a nice 6th level spell to give you those fighter AB back (not BAB unfortunately). So we make it wizard11. What to do from there is quite bewildering for me but I can figure out what to do later hehe. How much mage to take? stop at 11/11? what about 15/15 for a serious mordenkainens backstab? Add fighter levels in the mix? Does WS swords help out with mordenkainens or black blade of disaster? Who knows?

If you multi-class him to fighter, as he is a dwarf the fighter class will be ignored under the XP penalty. Remember that Tenser's Transformation (your 6th level spell) deactivates your spells at the same time . One good combi is to use Tenser's Trans. and Black Blade which did wonders in the last battle for me . You shouldn't need too many wizard spells if you use your rogue more effectively. Stealth mode may help out more.

Question: Any reason to take more than 11 levels of rogue in IWD? You already have a healthy backstab (remember not every attack constitutes a backstab) and access to slippery mind/improved evasion/crippling strike. You have all the rogue skills you need AFAIK since many get by with a Rogue1/WizardX? With 16 intelligence you would have enough skill points at "non-rogue" level ups to boost your search/disable skills to max. At HOF level you'll have high strenght for bashing and 1 - 2 knock spells to spare. I don't know what you get from pickpocketing except 1 item!! You'll have enough stealth. A 30 level rogue deals 15 d6 no save extra backstab damage. But they have no MI blink stoneskin blur tensors low HP lower feats than a fighter(and BAB).

If you have already got all the special feats and all the points required for opening locks and disabling traps then I suppose you don't need more levels in Rogue. You should get Sneak attacks when you flank the enemy (2+ characters facing the enemy, rogue not being attacked- although it may be affected by stealth mode like in BG). The limit to the amount of points you can put in a skill increases each level, so even if you max it, there could still be higher-level obstacles. And don't think about putting them in the same skill for a diff. class- the limit is lower for cross-class skills.

7)Amraith - I needed a cleric (had to make fissera part sorceror to fulfill my dream of making an evil Merlin ) but I can wait untill HOF. Also wanted to experiment with ultimate AC (ie72+ in HOF). I'm not sure if I achieved both but I think the AC can get very high with mage/cleric self buffs + war chant from makados + barkskin from fissera + plus decanter arm bands + other generic ac items? + dodge and expertise set to 5 + high base dexterity and the super nifty armor with no dexterity max.

What is the armour you're talking about? Your character seems alright to me. Now if only there were conical hats in IWDII (like in IWDI) then you could have an evil Merlin .

8) Fissera - You didn't mention him but I'll explain my reasons/assumptions. I've been told that Druid isn't as good as arcane in HOF since no WOB/lesser spell selection (I even have Weidu spell mod). Druid WOULD be good with Weidu shapeshift mod but I don't like that one as I never played a druid for combat shapes in PnP and won't start now (until I get bored/or curious).

I DID comment on Fissera. Unfortunately it didn't seem to make it to my post . I think I said you could take her out of the party occasionly to increase the rest of the party's XP shares. I think she is a moon elf, isn't she? If so, multi-classing to a wizard would incur no XP penalty.

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For quoting posts I just generally copy the text I want, open the new post, click on the quote bubble icon and past into the dialog box. If the quote is more than 1 paragraph, paste inbetween the QUOTE tags.

@ Ravager

Triple posting now, Myrophine. Tsk.
I got told off for doing that in the Heathen Citadel thread .

Oops! Well I guess I only learn the rules the hard way. I shoulda known but I guess I never really thought about it. These things happen to me at around 4 am... Sorry! I will refrain from posting thrice (and rarely twice)

Stay with Barb/Wiz/Rogue so you get 40% XP penalty rather than 60% and maybe get your feats in those classes. 60% penalty will REALLY make a difference later on.

The above is talking about Mirai multiclassing to barb rogue and fighter after she levels to 20th wizard. NO XP PENALTY!!! Human or half-elves the highest level (wizard) isn't counted. So all you got to do is keep rogue fighter and barb within a level of eachother. You said the feats of a 20 wizard are enough and thats probably true (5 bonus) I'll keep an eye on that one. I always want a lot: Combat Casting, GSF everything , spirit of fire,... Maybe wiz/barb then...

What is the armour you're talking about? Your character seems alright to me. Now if only there were conical hats in IWDII (like in IWDI) then you could have an evil Merlin .

Yes I want a Merlin hat for fissera (who's a human but should be a tiefling to be evil merlin). The armor is Drakkas fury and its pretty sweet. I still have to locate where to get it though. I did an AC calculation on Amraith though and He can only get to 63 or on a lucky tensors 64...Plus a shield but I wish he could dual wield with 72 ac. I think you should be part monk to get highest AC (and min/max stats).

Anywho the party is doing good. I just cleared the shaerngarn bridge. I was most dissapointed at the above AC calculation for Amraith but putting battallions of orcs to sleep/entangle while scewering the survivors with razor sharp arrows/bolts seems to cheer one up... watch the circles all turn yellow!

Oh and btw good input on the rogues. I'm afraid the backstab isn't as effective as in BG2 because A) the HP don't cap off (ie you hit but they don't die) B) no staff of magi C) it does scaling flat additional damage rather than pentuple your base hit + str...10tuple on a crit! and D) You don't have traps to back you up which was always fun fun

cheers

myrophine

Hi Myro,

Oops! Well I guess I only learn the rules the hard way. I shoulda known but I guess I never really thought about it. These things happen to me at around 4 am... Sorry! I will refrain from posting thrice (and rarely twice)

You know, I don't think there really is a rule, unspoken or otherwise. I think it was a joke... Anyway, why are you posting at 4AM?! I thought you would be in a different country posting at a more civilised time of day .

I always want a lot: Combat Casting, GSF everything , spirit of fire,... Maybe wiz/barb then...

That's just greedy . I think (Greater) Spell Penetration is in IWDII as well, which is certainly good at any higher Spell Resistance enemies such as drow.

Yes I want a Merlin hat for fissera (who's a human but should be a tiefling to be evil merlin). The armor is Drakkas fury and its pretty sweet. I still have to locate where to get it though. I did an AC calculation on Amraith though and He can only get to 63 or on a lucky tensors 64...Plus a shield but I wish he could dual wield with 72 ac. I think you should be part monk to get highest AC (and min/max stats).

I know I'll probably end up regretting this but...
Go for Ranger class if you want her to dual-wield - the feats are free after all. If only there were wings, horns and tails in IWDII.

Anywho the party is doing good. I just cleared the shaerngarn bridge.

I'm surprised you are not further on by now, you seem to have more free time than I do, which is kinda disturbing seeing as I have been on break from University since May .

Oh and btw good input on the rogues. I'm afraid the backstab isn't as effective as in BG2 because A) the HP don't cap off (ie you hit but they don't die) B) no staff of magi C) it does scaling flat additional damage rather than pentuple your base hit + str...10tuple on a crit! and D) You don't have traps to back you up which was always fun fun

I never got the hang of backstabbing in BGII . But then I never used Hide in Shadows and having a strategy guide and the knowledge from playing through at least 5 times does tend to ruin the surprises .
I guess I never really took the full thief experience in BG, I only used them for traps and locks. Sneak Attack is at least less complicated for me .

I wish you continuing good luck on the party and I'll see what I can contribute to the other two threads you started

- Ravager

Yet more feat info.

Yes, I'm double posting posting and I've probably become hypocritical .

I looked through the feats for you and I'm probably beginning to run out of ideas. By now, I should be as more an expert on this game as anyone!

Right, Druids get new animal forms up to level 15 (at the rate I described in the earlier post) so that may be a good cut-off point.

Like in NWN (and to an extent BGII) Fighters are the ONLY class to get Weapon Specialisations (that's 3 points in the skill) which adds 2 to damage in addition to the +1 to hit from Weapon Focus. This doesn't seem that great when compared to other feats but the really good news is coming up...

Maximised Attacks Feat which requires 4 Concentration and 2 Weapon Specialisations maximises the damage you can do for 10 seconds per day. Unfortunately it is limited to Fighter due to the Specialism .
You could probably put your feats in a barbarian class and then finish them off in a fighter class e.g. put 2 points in 2 diff. weapons as a barbarian then multi-class to fighter for 3 feats (2 Weapon Spec. + Maximised Attacks ).

Other feats you may want to take into account when raising stats are Expertise (req. 13 INT), Power Attack (13 STR) -> Cleave -> G. Cleave, Dirty Fighting & Rapid Shot (Both 13 DEX).

Something I didn't know about Cleave was that once you kill a creature and move onto the next, the same bonus is kept. So a high random bonus roll could lead to many kills in one go especially coupled with a high enchanted weapon and high THACO.

Envenom Weapon sounds like a good feat for rogues too- 8 Alchemy required and 1 level of rogue.

That armour has got to be a random drop (both the best and worst point of the IWD series ). It may only be available in HOF mode too. Stockpile your gold just in case one of the HOF merchants has it. Good luck on finding it, you'll need it .

You should tell me if you are having any specific ingame problems, such as requiring more melee or spell casting and I'll see if I can advise based on that. There's not much else I can say based just on classes, stats and feats (unless you can think of anything else).

Hey Ravager,

I'm surprised you are not further on by now, you seem to have more free time than I do, which is kinda disturbing seeing as I have been on break from University since May .

Yes I'm off from University too...Yay! I would be further along (at the fortress now) but I'm so busy triple posting at 4am that I have little time to play (just kiddin).

A fun thief in BG2 is the fighter/mage/thief. (Since we were comparing b-stabbing in IWD2 and BG2). You get the 5x b-stab after not too long. You can also get invis. free whenever you re-equip the staff of magi. And with MI/stoneskin and higher hp than mage/thief you can stand up to the aftermath of your backstab. Its also nice to be able to do something else than thief skills...I remember having Yoshimo hide in a corner against Firkraag as he died in 2 consecutive reloads after doing zero damage.

myro

Yes I'm off from University too...Yay! I would be further along (at the fortress now) but I'm so busy triple posting at 4am that I have little time to play (just kiddin).

You too eh? What Uni. do you go to? Aren't these long breaks fun? I look forward to the 13- week first term(!)

It does beg the question... why are you posting at 4AM anyway? Aren't you supposed to sleep in?

I was looking at your colourful post... Copycat!

You should take Makados to level 12 Bard to get the regenerative song (can save some healing spells by using it).

Daheel- Get Weapon Focus in 2 weapons in Barbarian, Take Fighter and get Weapon Spec. in the same levels and then take Maximised Attacks as either Fighter/Barbarian.

Mordenkainen's Sword spell probably gives you proficiency for the duration of it. I can't remember- is it like the one in BGII, or does it appear in the caster's hand. Independent floating swords are cooler . I'll check the description later.

Fissera- Go up to 15 Druid for more Wild Shapes (and if you like them take the extra Wild Shapes feat)

Harbesh- You're quite low on melee, so I would take him as a fighter. Use Studded leather or chain armour to take advantage of high rogue dex. Flank your enemies to get good sneak attacks. The high CON should help him survive and the high reflex means he can be used as a lure. Eg spells such as fireball or others that have a special reflex save can be used when he is in the area of effect.

More about Mordenkainen's Sword - I looked into the descriptions in IWDII and BGII. It sounds pretty cool...

In IWDII it acts like the Spiritual Hammer spell (attacking from a distance), is considered a +3 weapon, has a bonus to attack equal to caster's level plus 4 and does 4d6+3 damage.

In BGII it is +4, caster has thac0 of a fighter (half caster's level) and inflicts 5-20 damage every sucessful hit. Completely independent of caster.

Sounds pretty good to me...

You too eh? What Uni. do you go to? Aren't these long breaks fun? I look forward to the 13- week first term(!)

I'm at U of Florida and I don't have true insomnia but sometimes I wake up and move around/do stuff at night...including video games! How 'bout you? I can tell from your spelling of colour that you must be overseas from me...I won't make a guess and risk labeling you as a native of a rival (for football and stuff)

I was looking at your colourful post... Copycat!

Color is good! Mordy's sword is too. In both games. On the one hand its independent and practically imune to damage in BG2 but in IWD2 its like a ranged attack and it can't be hurt by anything (even MM and Horrid Wilting) AFAIK.

I've tried maximized attacks and you need only put 4 fighter levels in (too qualify for WS). Unlike NWN you don't need a fighter "level up" to pick up a WS feat in IWD2 (and I could be wrong about NWN...its been awhile). Max attack is good too. Killed a white dragon with it on a critical with the short sword of brilliance!

On cleave: If its your first attack of 5 at say BAB 25 your cleave attack (and for that matter any great cleave attacks) roll with BAB 25 (no -5 for next attack). Is that what you are saying?

Enenom Weapon: Ok if you have no other feat to pick... But its not too strong (HOF opponents make a fort save) and its expensive for a once a day use...

Bard/Cleric multi-class (Makados): Only needs level 11 Bard to get last song in IWD2. So its a trade off in extra cleric spells (19th level) or extra bard spells (12th level). Cleric wins I think...

Druid/Sorceror (Fissera): I'm still in doubt to what levels to take him too. I was thinking of going to 18th sorceror for 9th level spells. I don't think melee wildshapes are that important unless you have the weidu mod and are using the elemental dragon (21st level druid). I recommend the weidu mod for spells but I don't feel a druid is a combat shifter from Gary Gygax's creation. The true power doesn't come across to a CRPG which is the imagination of the druid...You can turn into ANY natural animal. You can talk to ANY natural animal (limited by that animals knowledge and intelligence...I should say empathize). Sooo you can scout things out in wilderness better than a thief. Your mages know what to prepare. You avoid ambushes, surprise, and death. You can tell the evil Dukes knights' horses to throw their riders! You can escape from a messy spot by flying.

BUT a 7th level fighter in plate armor can still thrash a druid who is shifted into a brown bear. And shifting never got better untill hierophant druids elemental forms...but then Gygax wasn't interested in level 20 characters anyway and considered them to be retired.

Harbesh: So far he is a 3/3 thief/mage and is holding up the thief duties while managing to flank and dish out damage with his high str/con. If he's in trouble he casts MI. He has a few trick spells too. And he handles the Mage Armor if not expecting to fight for longer than 3 hours before rest (ie storming the actual horde fortress = less than 3 but the whole grounds take many rests).

I'm gonna see if Dahel can handle the damage dealing with Amraith as an AC spellsword tank or archer. Harbesh will be a high con mage/thief spellsword who deals flanking damage and casts MI on self plus buffs others or summons. With Mirai tailoring her spell list to situations and fissera as an evocation machine the party will roll to kuldahar. Makados casts the cleric spells and sings level one bard song (I mention him last but he's not least).

I'm at U of Florida and I don't have true insomnia but sometimes I wake up and move around/do stuff at night...including video games! How 'bout you? I can tell from your spelling of colour that you must be overseas from me...I won't make a guess and risk labeling you as a native of a rival (for football and stuff)

I would say that the spelling of 'colour' is a typo, but the location (opposite the user name) does tend to give it away .
I go to the U of Greenwich in SE London and study Computing. Eventually I'll start the second year, when the Uni. gets it's act together.

I've tried maximized attacks and you need only put 4 fighter levels in (too qualify for WS). Unlike NWN you don't need a fighter "level up" to pick up a WS feat in IWD2 (and I could be wrong about NWN...its been awhile). Max attack is good too. Killed a white dragon with it on a critical with the short sword of brilliance!

That's odd. I'm sure I read in IWDII you could only put in 3 points as a fighter (maybe it meant dedicated melee classes). NWN definitely has the limit. Anyone could kill a dragon with a critical hit (on any weapon), it depends on the amount of damage done and how injured the dragon was before the hit.

On cleave: If its your first attack of 5 at say BAB 25 your cleave attack (and for that matter any great cleave attacks) roll with BAB 25 (no -5 for next attack). Is that what you are saying?

The attacks rolls are generally '(skill + weapon bonuses) + bonus roll' aren't they? So any THAC0 and weapon enhancements go to the first number and then there is a completely random second roll (which would determine whether you get a crit. miss or hit).
So, if that's true and you get a great bonus roll and kill a monster, then you commit major carnage with Cleave + Greater Cleave.

Enenom Weapon: Ok if you have no other feat to pick... But its not too strong (HOF opponents make a fort save) and its expensive for a once a day use...

Makes sense, barbarians and guards must be even stronger against it. There must be enemies with low fort. saves out there. From what I've seen in HOF mosde in IWDI the enemies seem to have equal resistances, just a lot more HP and damage-dealing, so the spells would still work. I don't know if saves are also hiked in IWDII though .

I don't think melee wildshapes are that important unless you have the weidu mod and are using the elemental dragon (21st level druid)

In my startegy guide it says 'use these shapes for anything beyond a simple fight'. Granted this probably refers to normal mode and I steer clear of anything non-elemental myself, but the shapes do have potential against the right foes. I suppose some will have low AC though, so ensure they are not targeted. I haven't tried the weidu mod for IWDII (only BGII) .
I would say the 'Shifter' prestige class in NWN is probably the best approximation of a druid's power (in a game I've seen) though creating dialogue for each animal could turn into a mammoth task, though some could be re-used.

Harbesh: So far he is a 3/3 thief/mage and is holding up the thief duties while managing to flank and dish out damage with his high str/con. If he's in trouble he casts MI. He has a few trick spells too. And he handles the Mage Armor if not expecting to fight for longer than 3 hours before rest (ie storming the actual horde fortress = less than 3 but the whole grounds take many rests).

So, you're not following my advice to go fighter . Hmm... does Mage Armour add to the current AC or take it to a certain limit, I can't remember. Oh well, I suppose I'll check that later. The Warrens under the Fortress are a great place for a rogue, if you are confident in his stealth skills. I don't know if you have played through before so I'll spoiler this (and for anyone who has just stumbled on it)- You gain XP on the first level of the Warrens for sneaking past camps unawares. You get the XP when entering the 2nd level.

Bard/Cleric multi-class (Makados): Only needs level 11 Bard to get last song in IWD2. So its a trade off in extra cleric spells (19th level) or extra bard spells (12th level). Cleric wins I think...

I agree, you have a lot of arcane stuff in the party anyway, and bard spells are more limited than magi.

-Ravager

On Harbesh: Its kind of a tricky situation because I have already invested in mage 3 levels...If I want to get him to level as a rogue I HAVE TO level as a mage to avoid xp penalty. I plan on eventually adding 2-8 fighter levels but I'm not sure how many and I'm waiting till that magic level of rogue10 mage11 to make a decision. Then I'll level to anywhere from W11R11F8 to W18R10F2 (or such). I could add 2 fighter levels soon for feats but I'm not satisfied with rogue yet...I'll wait untill rogue6/mage5 at least as a good stopping point. I wish I could be W17R10F4 but I'll have to give up A) Rogue special skills? B) Weapon Specialization or C) 9th level wizard spells. The mix also affects how I build stats of course (ie minimum intelligence to cast the spells).

the hardest decisions I'm making are regarding the sorceror (Fissera got turned into one....will be 18/12 sorc/druid) spell selection.

I get 5 5 4 4 4 3 3 2 1 of the respective spell levels.

1st level I chose: sleep (to make beginning EASY) + MM + chromatic orb + shield + 1 more

2nd level: Mirror Image + Eagles Splendor + 3 more: (Melfs Acid, Aganazzers, or Snillocs), Blur, Invis, or Web.

3rd level: Fireball and 3 of: Skull Trap, Slow, Invis Sphere, Ice lance

etc...I'm looking for guidance in a search of this site next...

Myrophine

I'll add some suggestions for sorceror spells in this thread as we are practically making it our own .

I really should bring my strategy guide and the spells part of the manual to this computer. I save money by using my parent's respective Internet connections .

Off the top of my head (I'm sure I'll have more for you tomorrow ) any spell that increase by the level is generally good such as Magic Missile. Other invaluable spells to pick should be area effects that do not harm your party even when you are in the centre, such as Horrid Wilting and Wail of the Banshee. Skull Trap is quite good as it can effectively cover an approach or retreat. Chromatic Orb increases in power, so it should be useful. Stoneskin is a must for your sorceror and to cast on your melee fighters. Tenser's Transformation. True Sight. Protection From Fear (It might be Resist Fear). Hopelessness and Symbol/Power: Word Spells (I don't think there is any save ). Dispel Magic. Haste. Most of these spells I have chosen above are universally useful, but I'll have a look to see what spells get more powerful in the Strat. guide.

I wouldn't recommend Slow really. There are more useful spells for limiting enemy movement.

Oh, if you want to look for a guide, my one is the 'Prima' version. It's pretty detailed and worth a look at.

I recommend the weidu mod for spells but I don't feel a druid is a combat shifter from Gary Gygax's creation. The true power doesn't come across to a CRPG which is the imagination of the druid...You can turn into ANY natural animal. You can talk to ANY natural animal (limited by that animals knowledge and intelligence...I should say empathize). Sooo you can scout things out in wilderness better than a thief. Your mages know what to prepare. You avoid ambushes, surprise, and death. You can tell the evil Dukes knights' horses to throw their riders! You can escape from a messy spot by flying.

Do you mean the Greyhawk setting (ToEE is based in that setting, and the manual says he created it)?

This isn't related to your sorceror spells, but check the divine spell Exaltation, there is no low-level equivalent in BG and it can be essential, I think it removes states of fear, feeblemindedness and confusion. Better than Dispel Magic due to the focus.


Why the different posting time ?
At the goblin fortress yet?

I almost NEVER want to cast a dispel magic! You are usually walking around with tons of buffs and enemies with that in their script are your worst nightmare.

Otherwise good suggestion on sorceror spells. I am so limited in a max 18 sorcs spell selection that I have to be very careful (and save the game ) at level ups.

I've just killed Sherincal for 5400 xp I've got a whole level squatting table prepared as my characters are all ECL + 0 characters. Always keeping the total levels to 6n - 1 and planning ahead (ie if you squat too much you will have to unsquat either all at once meaning little xp once you do this or a few characters at a time leaving you with very mulish characters).

myro

Good morning, myro.

Anything instresting happening in Florida? Any hurricanes ?

I almost NEVER want to cast a dispel magic! You are usually walking around with tons of buffs and enemies with that in their script are your worst nightmare.

Dispel Magic is always a risk, true. But you HAVE to keep it on standby, just for when armageddon erupts! One good case is when you have stunned or hopeless characters. I know there's lots of good level 3 spells but please, take it. You'll end up regretting it otherwise .

I looked at the sorceror spells thread, I wouldn't recommend shade summoning spells - they are weaker than regular summons. See if you can find any longer duration summons too, they can be quite useful lasting more than one battle (hopefully ).

I've just killed Sherincal for 5400 xp I've got a whole level squatting table prepared as my characters are all ECL + 0 characters. Always keeping the total levels to 6n - 1 and planning ahead (ie if you squat too much you will have to unsquat either all at once meaning little xp once you do this or a few characters at a time leaving you with very mulish characters).

You certainly have been making progress! How did you kill Sherincal, I lured off her allies, went in the temple through the back, exited via the front doors, surrounded her with summons and picked her off mostly with bows .

'6n-1'- Sounds like algebra to me . What does n stand for, then ?

What do you study at Uni. then? I told you what I study, after all.

Sorcerer Spells

Hi myro, next installment...

Here's a long list for you...

I'll try to colour code it for you.

Aegis (9)- Takes the place of other lower level protection spells- Stoneskin, Freedom of Movement, Minor Globe of Invulnerabilty.15 point elemental resistances, +2 saves, + 3 SR
Anti-Magic Field (6) – 10 rounds/level - Immune to magic but cannot cast either.
Ball Lightning (Level 5)- 5 balls per round, no. of rounds increase each level. Ignores all physical armour – Great against high AC enemies
Beltyn’s Burning Blood (4)- 1 round/ 2 levels - Avoid for use against fire-resistant creatures
Black Blade (9) – 1 round/leveldoes full damage regardless of DR
Blink (3)- 1 round/level– Bad for spell-casting & hitting. Good defense
Blur (2)- 1 min./levelIncreases saves too
Stat Increasers (e.g. Bull’s Strength) – Hour per level
Carrion Summons (6) – 7 rounds + 1/level– Useful for paralysing enemies
Chaos (5) – 1/level
Planar Bindings – 3 rounds + 1/level
Contagion – Permanent Use against Fighters and Sorcerers
Delayed Blast Fireball + Skull Trap Good for ambushes
Emotion: Hope – 50 round duration – Saving throw increase. Use before battle so enemies don’t get bonuses
Fire Shields – Red has greater duration (3 rounds/level) than Blue (1 round/level) Odd.
Globe of Invulnerability (6) – 1 round/level - Protects from 4th and lower level spells
Hold Monster (5) - 1 round/level More powerful as it is higher-level
Horror Good for use when retreating (like Ghoul Touch)
Horrid Wilting – Extremely effective against water-based creatures
Improved Haste (6) – 3 rounds + 1/level Spellcasting NOT sped up. Good counter to slow spell
Invisibility Sphere (3) – 10 minutes/level + later Mass Invisibility (8)
Iron Body (8) – 10 rounds/level – Super DR no spell casting, but character slowed down
Lance of Disruption – Use like Lightning Bolt
Lich Touch (6) – 1 round/level – Paralysis touch
Lower Resistance May be resisted when cast
Malavon’s Rage Use when spellcaster surrounded by enemies
Malison (4) – 2 rounds/level Only affects enemies
Mass Dominate (8) – 1 round/level Use against large groups of mid/low level enemies Melf’s Minute Meteors – A missile for each level of the caster - Last up to 8 hrs after cast. Cast pre-combat Melf’s Acid Arrow – Another round duration per 3 levels (and the extra damage) - Always hits – Good for causing spell failure.
Mind Blank – Protection against Mind-Affecting spells/items - Can be used like Non- Detection for rogues in particular.Mirror Image – 3 rounds/level
Mordy’s Force Missiles – 1 at 7th level +1/ 3 levels
Phantom Blade - No proficiency in blades required to wield effectively. Particularly effective against undead
Power: Word Stun
Power: Word Hopelessness
Seven Eyes - Excellent defense and poss. offense
Shield – 5 rounds/level- Protects against Magic Missile + Force Missiles
Snilloc’s Snowball Swarm – First effective damage area effect Especially good against fire creatures Soul Eater- Bonus to caster for each killed (1 turn each effect) + creates undead
Spider Spawn – Creature summoned gets more powerful
Suffocate - Effective against breathing enemies
Choose alternate Summon Monsters starting at III
Sunfire- Fireball from caster – Consider as lower level ‘Malavon’s Rage’
Tenser’s Trans
Trollish Fortitude .
Vitriolic Sphere – Increases to max. of 12 d4 and does damage based on saves.
Vocalize (or equivalent feat)
WoftB - Does not damage your party
Wyvern Call (6) – 1 round/level

White - Spells that sound good, but haven't really tried out.
Yellow- Spells that work well and have tried
Turquoise- Tips from my Strategy Guide

I know there's way more then you can have for now, but you can still refer to the list anyway and experiment.

Anything instresting happening in Florida? Any hurricanes ?

Hurricane myrophine just went through the ice temple! Survivors - 6 priests to spread fear and terrror through enemy ranks (after removing 11 eyes leaving 1 to find the way).

Also hurricane girlfriend got accepted to school (pharmacy) with me. She was so nervous she was driving me berserk!

6n-1? n is any integer... Sooo if you have a 6th, two 10th, a 7th, a 9th, and a 11th level character (My party) it fits the 6n-1 rule (6*9 -1 = 53 = total levels). If you play with four or five characters its the 4n - 1 or 5n-1 rule...

I looked at the sorceror spells thread, I wouldn't recommend shade summoning spells - they are weaker than regular summons. See if you can find any longer duration summons too, they can be quite useful lasting more than one battle (hopefully ).

Shades gets a lot better at high level...I tested it using the xp giving cheat console and found that you get various shade demons at high level (cornugans!) rather than yeti etc. BUT my sorceror only takes 18 levels so I will have to find something else...

You certainly have been making progress! How did you kill Sherincal, I lured off her allies, went in the temple through the back, exited via the front doors, surrounded her with summons and picked her off mostly with bows

.

First I scare her off by charming her barb helper and ganging up on the soarsman. Then I summon 4 barbarian warriors with the bard horn that you buy from the werewolve guy. The fighters and clerics and barbarians deal with any other minions. Meanwhile the mage and sorceror follow Sherincal (she goes up the stairs and shoots chromatic orbs). Then Fireball machine for sorceror and mage too untill runs out then magic missile. If she comes down the stairs distract her with mirror imaged spellsword (Harbesh) and continue blasting with Magic Missiles.

Your way sounds downright sneaky and lots of fun too!

Thats a good list of spells. I like them or would like to try just about all of them out.

The only one I'd cross off is phantom blade...The only thing going for this spell is damage to undead (I think) and there are better items you can find for whacking undead (green flash) (Poof) (Undead Gone).

So far my sorceror has

1: magic missile, chromatic orb, sleep, grease, shield
2: web, mirror image, eagle's splendor
3: fireball, invisibility sphere (I value a good defense and the summons decoy trick...summon a bunch of nasties then invis sphere your party to safety and let the summons take the hits)
4: stoneskin

cheers

myrophine

Good morning, campers!

Hurricane myrophine just went through the ice temple! Survivors - 6 priests to spread fear and terrror through enemy ranks (after removing 11 eyes leaving 1 to find the way).

Also hurricane girlfriend got accepted to school (pharmacy) with me. She was so nervous she was driving me berserk!

That's not exactly what I meant, I was talking about the natural disaster type . Like the mini-tornado this country had a couple of days ago. Now that's odd. Good luck for your girlfriend.

6n-1? n is any integer... Sooo if you have a 6th, two 10th, a 7th, a 9th, and a 11th level character (My party) it fits the 6n-1 rule (6*9 -1 = 53 = total levels). If you play with four or five characters its the 4n - 1 or 5n-1 rule...

Too much maths for me. Used up my maths knowledge last year - I got 89% in a maths module exam for my course (86% overall). Maybe my results got switched .

Shades gets a lot better at high level...I tested it using the xp giving cheat console and found that you get various shade demons at high level (cornugans!) rather than yeti etc. BUT my sorceror only takes 18 levels so I will have to find something else...

Tsk. Using the cheat console. *shakes head despairingly*. I think there are 3 shade summoning spells aren't there? It may be better because there are less of them than monster summoning (so a more random choice), I didn't know that they increased in power as well, though. Monster Summoning IX is probably quite good, when I went through IWDII I was forced to cast level 9 spells from the scrolls, I didn't quite make it to the necessary level.

First I scare her off by charming her barb helper and ganging up on the soarsman. Then I summon 4 barbarian warriors with the bard horn that you buy from the werewolve guy. The fighters and clerics and barbarians deal with any other minions. Meanwhile the mage and sorceror follow Sherincal (she goes up the stairs and shoots chromatic orbs). Then Fireball machine for sorceror and mage too untill runs out then magic missile. If she comes down the stairs distract her with mirror imaged spellsword (Harbesh) and continue blasting with Magic Missiles.

Sherincal has the only wand of Chromatic Orb so she certainly has enough of those spells available. The direct approach has always been quite tricky, especially with the stairs that fold up if a switch is hit .

Your way sounds downright sneaky and lots of fun too!

And then I roll her up in a carpet and throw her off a bridge. *hee hee*

*ahem* Sorry, I've been watching too much of The Simpsons . Anyway where's the nearest bridge ?

Anyway, back to other matters:

Thats a good list of spells. I like them or would like to try just about all of them out.

The only one I'd cross off is phantom blade...The only thing going for this spell is damage to undead (I think) and there are better items you can find for whacking undead (green flash) (Poof) (Undead Gone).

I suppose it's just a lower level Mordy's Sword, it seemed alright when I occasionly used it in BGII. Moonblade (the spell & the sword) are good vs. undead (what few of them there are). Talking about Disintegrate? I thought it sounded great when I first saw it in BGII, but I steered clear thinking I would lose the XP and whatever the enemy was carrying .

What you like the whole list? I spent half of the afternoon copying down virtually all the mage spells . I really do need something different to do, though, so I appreciate doing it. Hopefully I'll have some new things to do after my birthday (3rd August).
BTW, I posted my photo in the SYM 'Photo Album' thread if you want to look.

Talk to you later
Ravager

P.S. I added more to the spells list at the top of the page. A couple new spells and tips from my strategy guide. Hopefully the colours are all right. It was a bit complicated .

Hi myro,

Any other interesting stories from Florida?

Today, I carried on HOF mode in IWDI and found a good battle for the mode. 2 Sword Spiders soaked up 3 fireballs, 1 lightning bolt, 1 chain lightning bolt, 1 skull trap, 1 cloudkill (that killed one) and a melf's acid arrow. That's without any other melee or ranged damage, and they they were worth 10000 XP each (5 times the value in BGII )

That just shows the power of HOF mode . Looking forward to it ?

You do know that if Harbesh takes any Fighter levels they are completely ignored under the XP penalty, right? His race has fighter as a favoured class.

myro, hi!

That's it. I'm officially a hypocrite. I've triple-posted now .

How's your progress. Made it to the dragons and wyrms yet?