How far would you go

Ravager · Post by **Ravager** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:38 am

With some shoelaces and chewing gum, you could have your very own nuclear reactor!

ch85us2001 · Post by **ch85us2001** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:41 pm

Hmm we could build a plasma cutter with the water bottle

Hill-Shatar · Post by **Hill-Shatar** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:21 pm

As for which bone to cut, your options are the humerus, the radius and the ulna, (you'd have to cut both the radius and the Ulna to free your lower arm.

Id go for the shoulder...seems to have the l;east resitance and the least traffic in that area...

Ill go and check my book again, but I was sure...

I went yesterday to check the book. Even if he did tie in very tight and cut off circulation, it would not block the pain. Your arm may feel numb, but it is not. He most likely passed out many times screaming while performing this procedure.

Youve read the book chus. How long after was he rescued,, while the gangerine was still treatable?

I'd call MacGyver

With some shoelaces and chewing gum, you could have your very own nuclear reactor!

Hmm we could build a plasma cutter with the water bottle

and maybe he could use his MacGyverness to magically transport the rock away with the cllimbing rope....

or make a mini bomb from some pinecones.

Another reason to always hike with a partner.

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:05 pm

You people are crazy. I can't see any reason to go through all of that to stay in this place.

ch85us2001 · Post by **ch85us2001** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:59 am

Im serious about the plasma cutter. The water bottle is clear. The carabiners are reflective. You know the way you burn ants with a magnifiying glass? There you go youre very own arm amputating lightsaber

Ravager · Post by **Ravager** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:50 am

I think you need glass not plastic to do that kind of thing. And it'd need to be flat so you'd have to cut up the bottle.

Hill-Shatar · Post by **Hill-Shatar** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:26 pm

[QUOTE=Ravager]I think you need glass not plastic to do that kind of thing. And it'd need to be flat so you'd have to cut up the bottle.[/QUOTE]

You guys are considering making a lightsaber....

Carry on...

Ravager · Post by **Ravager** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:29 pm

I didn't mean for a 'lightsaber'

. I meant the magnifying glass like idea.

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:08 pm

Oh yeah, no doubt at all it would hurt immeasureably.

As for the shoulder, the idea has merit, but there are a lot of supporting structures to deal with, though they wouldn't be as hard to cut through, but there are a lot of ligaments, tendons and muscles holding that bad boy in place.

I'm liking the laser idea, but I don't know if it would work.

Though I don't think the caribeners would be good for anything. Maybe by grinding one side you could make a cutting edge....

Hill-Shatar · Post by **Hill-Shatar** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:33 pm

Seems like the shoulder would be a better cut. Neater. Also, it comes to somewhat more together...

He might try displacing his arm. Anyways, he has a dull knife. I would rather cut through tendons and ligaments, which are muscles(you know how muscles are built. If I remember correctly this would make it easier), and not bones, so it should go faster.

Though I don't think the caribeners would be good for anything. Maybe by grinding one side you could make a cutting edge....

Or use it to turn something else into a sharp edge.

Uh oh, another person who thiks the MacGyver laser will be possible. Or the plasma cutter. Seems its changed names. Interesting how the plama is going to come from a water bottle.

you guys can be the MacGyver cult. Ill just watch...

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 5:52 am

I'm quite sure I would not be able to cut of my arm with a blunt knife, but if I were I would think it be worth it.

Burning your way trough wont work though. even if you had a very large mirror or similar I think the only thing you could accomplish is giving yourself a burn.

Cutting through the soulder isn't a very good idea either I think. It's less stuff to cut through at the elbow, and you also get to keep more of your arm.

Hill-Shatar · Post by **Hill-Shatar** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:54 pm

I think the entire arm was crushed. And the elbow may actually be more dangerous. Including the fact that gangrene can set in my easier in moveable limbs. Humans move them around too much.... plus, the tendons and all that are protected my sheaths in bone. The shoulder blades are in the back. If you can go down around the bend of the clavivce, and try to pry it away somehow from the local shpulder muscle, it should be easy to cut up will leaving the shoulder bone intact...

ch85us2001 · Post by **ch85us2001** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:15 pm

*cough* finished the book this weekend. He just cut it off at the forearm using blunt force and broke the bone with a rock.

Hill-Shatar · Post by **Hill-Shatar** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:33 pm

IMO hes a moron. But to each man his own...

Not smart... might as well have screamed to predators with screaming *tasty treat under rock*

ch85us2001 · Post by **ch85us2001** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:12 am

Wow, if I ever cut my arm off Ill hang it above the mantle

He did class five climbing after he cut it off

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:17 am

This would depend on a lot of things, mostly on where the main damage on my arm was. If it was below the elbow, I would certainly want to cut at the elbow not at the shoulder, since above-elbow amputations severly limits the possibility for a good prosthesis and also is associated with much more issue problems later on. Cutting at the shoulder is not only more complicated considering stopping blood flow and your body positition if one arm is stuck under a rock, it also means you will definitely loose all mobility in that arm.

Hill-Shatar · Post by **Hill-Shatar** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:35 pm

He had a rusty knife. Id be more worried about the fact that no matter where he hit it, it would be infected. If I remember my med clursed correctly, limbs are more susptible to injury, and since the body shunts blood down the arm and not through the shgoulder, Id cut it off from there. Your limb would most likely need to be amputated anyways...

I also read a paper somewhere about immune responce to invasion through an open arm or torso wound. Being an immunologist, and microbiologist, and knowing this resaerch close to heart, since a close frined of mine did the study, I can honestly say that it makes perfect sense. Immune responces to any diesease into open blood was stronger closer to the core (some of you may be thinking duh, but the body is a very complex thing. Im just happy I didnt go into neuroscience... Id probably pass out from exertion... I overwork myself)... although the body would trigger an immune responce toi invaders in the later part of the arm... the shunting effect makes that almost impossible.

If this isnt making sense, PM me. Im too tired to be trying to make sense out of things right now...

Ill come back on later and provide an avctual intuitive answer, to which CE will have found a flaw in my argument almost immediately... since looking back I already see gaping holes in it...

I shouldnt be night schooling...

But ill get my degree... sooner or later... most likely later. Theres a reason why many rarely have more than one degree. Two was exhausting...this third is a pain in the butt!

EDIT

Sorry, CE, made the typical neruology/neuroscience mistake again. I need a nap.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:08 pm

Too bad with the rusty knife, but I've learned always to save as much as possible of the limb when you perform an emergency amputation, and it's also much more difficult to stop the bleeding at the shoulder than at the level of your elbow. I am however no surgeon, just a medical researcher, so I should actually ask any of the surgeons I know.

[quote="Hill]
Im just happy I didnt go into neuroscience... Id probably pass out from exertion... I overwork myself)[/quote"]

I am overworking myself

Hill-Shatar · Post by **Hill-Shatar** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:14 pm

You do that. I dont trust the ones I work with... they tend to be hurtful and joking, so you cant trust what they say.

Your overworking yourself!? In the medical field!? Especially as a researcher!? What a surprise. I think Im pulling close to 100 hours this week now... whatever made me go into this?

Oh right, thats why Im going back to uni again.

Saving the limb is less inportant than saving your life. If you bleed to death, there wasnt much of a point of having more of a stub, now was there. Or if it becomes infected. Or if the smell of so much blood (surprisingly, losing a limb has less smell involved. Who knew. I certainly didnt) doesnt attract the native wildlife.

EDIT: Dont ask a surgeon. I just remember that they ramble about the off topic stuff, such as, what would he do if this patient was on my table? More than, What would you do in the wilderness?

Thats worse then me. And all molecular biologiists of all trades can ramble.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:08 pm

hill1 wrote:You do that. I dont trust the ones I work with... they tend to be hurtful and joking, so you cant trust what they say.

Ok, the conclusion of my enquires are that it's always best to cut as distal as possible, even if you have a rusty knife, even if it means cutting through bone, even if you get a worse immunoresponse later, even if...anything. The reason for this is that the major problem you are going to face, is the bleeding. It is easier to stop the bleeding the more distal you get. Thus, I stay with my cutting at the elbow.

On a side note, a friend of my grandfather was out in the forest cutting trees in a remote area in the north of Sweden, when a log of wood fell over one of his legs. He was completely alone, there was no mobile phone coverage and it was several kilometers to the next village. The guy cut his leg with the chainsaw, just above the knee (the knee was stuck, crushed under the log). He survived

Your overworking yourself!? In the medical field!? Especially as a researcher!? What a surprise. I think Im pulling close to 100 hours this week now... whatever made me go into this?

Oh right, thats why Im going back to uni again.

I am at a university (or do you mean go back to uni as a student?) and I work more than any of the so called researchers in the industry

But I seldom do 100 hours/week. It happened often some years ago, not it happens only occationally...it was at least 2 months since last time (but that was fun!)