Is this a good character?

Ravager · Post by **Ravager** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:13 pm

[QUOTE=Hill-Shatar]I would wait until Ravager or Fljotsdale answers this one, however. Both reside in the English timezone, and it is 2 o'clock AM there. I'll mention this in passing if I see either of them online, though.

[/QUOTE]

Actually, it's 3am (yeah, why am I still up?

), but you did well.

@BallofFire, well, I think that if you have one of those items equipped when you level up the game takes the current skill at face value - so if it above a borderline that means the skill takes 2 or more points to increase then that's how much it will take. In such cases it may be best to unequip the item before increasing the skill.
The best way to be sure is to test it out, I think that it would be 'cheaper' if the item was unequipped before levelling up and equipped again after the process.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:57 am

[QUOTE=BallOfFire]Thank you too Fljotsdale! I feel like I already know you after having read all the Lionheart topics while waiting for Ravager to respond =P.

So I really just have one question that is preventing me from starting at this point: can perks that raise attributes other than "Gain ___" bring them above 10? Once I figure that out I plan to actually choose all the perks I'm going to get before I start, so I don't make any mistakes. This is starting to feel like homework.[/QUOTE]

GOSH! You read all the Lionheart threads!? I'm impressed!

Remember to check the requirements for the Perks you want! For example, if you wanted the Slayer Perk (Unarmed fighter only), you HAVE to have 8 Agi and 8 Str.
Many of the other Perks also have Attribute requirements, as well as a character level requirement, a skill level requirement, and, sometimes, NOT having a particular Perk! So you need to fix your attributes to match the Perks you want.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:09 am

[QUOTE=Ravager]Actually, it's 3am (yeah, why am I still up?

), but you did well.

@BallofFire, well, I think that if you have one of those items equipped when you level up the game takes the current skill at face value - so if it above a borderline that means the skill takes 2 or more points to increase then that's how much it will take. In such cases it may be best to unequip the item before increasing the skill.
The best way to be sure is to test it out, I think that it would be 'cheaper' if the item was unequipped before levelling up and equipped again after the process.[/QUOTE]

I agree.
@ BallofFire
And I always save game after I have reached level-up and before I start allocating points/perk, so that I can reload if necessary, to re-allocate, in case things didn't work out as I expected. It's a good way of checking the effects of equipment on your skills, etc.
I also EQUIP any items that increase skill points on level-up as soon as I notice I am within 300 to 500 skill points of leveling. This will almost certainly leave your character weaker for a short time, but is well worth it, imo.

Only don't forget to re-equip your good stuff afterwards!

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:22 am

[QUOTE=BallOfFire]Lol no problem, I appreciate how much time you've spent on me.

What will happen if I only get two charisma?...

I finished my character. Hopefully. Here'es his stats

S 5 (6)
P 8 (9)
E 8 (9)
C 2
I 8 (9)
A 8 (9)
L 2 (3)

Feralkin

Wolf Hide

Ascetic
Gifted

Fortitude
Ranged
Evasion

Elemental Spirit[/QUOTE]

As Ravager said: A lot less Mana, and consequently a lot less spell-casting capacity. And you won't get the advantages that can come with a higher charisma - but a Feralkin with Wolf Hide isn't ever going to be a popular guy! :laugh:
Er... you have noted that he will be susceptible to disease and poison? You will probably be wise to get lots of antitdote and cure-all potions; AND items that enhance his protections to disease and poison. Did you take the Inherited Resistance Perk at level 2?

BallOfFire · Post by **BallOfFire** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 3:34 pm

I didn't get Inherited Resistance because I decided to save the point to put in something better when it became available. As for my disease weakeness, I figured I would just get Disease Ward to become immune to disease.

Fljotsdale, I'm a bit confused by your second post. You said "I also EQUIP any items that increase skill points on level-up as soon as I notice I am within 300 to 500 skill points of leveling. This will almost certainly leave your character weaker for a short time, but is well worth it, imo." I'm assuming you meant to say unequip, but why do that before a level up? I was just going to do it right after leveling but before distributing skills, just in case skill increasing items increased the skill point cost per level.

I'm level 9 already and still going ^^. This is almost too easy with this character, because half the things that attack me die before they reach me, and the other half just plain can't hit me.

Ravager · Post by **Ravager** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:39 pm

[QUOTE=BallOfFire]I didn't get Inherited Resistance because I decided to save the point to put in something better when it became available. As for my disease weakeness, I figured I would just get Disease Ward to become immune to disease.[/QUOTE]

Are you saving perks when you gain them at a level up?
Inherited Resistance is definitely worth taking, it provides a good bonus, can be combined with Disease/Venom Ward and most importantly it has a maximum level that it can be taken, so it can't be left for later...or not much later on anyway.

[QUOTE=BallOfFire]Fljotsdale, I'm a bit confused by your second post. You said "I also EQUIP any items that increase skill points on level-up as soon as I notice I am within 300 to 500 skill points of leveling. This will almost certainly leave your character weaker for a short time, but is well worth it, imo." I'm assuming you meant to say unequip, but why do that before a level up? I was just going to do it right after leveling but before distributing skills, just in case skill increasing items increased the skill point cost per level.[/QUOTE]

Every time you level up you get an amount of skill points to allocate to skills. The amount of skill points you get can differ depending on certain items equipped (such as items of Voodoo) and the Intelligence attribute. This is different from other items that increase specific skills such as Find Traps. Those affect your character all the time whereas the item that provide skill points per level only affect the level up procedure.
Basically, unequip any items that increase points to a skill, but do not provide bonus skill points per level.

[QUOTE=BallOfFire]I'm level 9 already and still going ^^. This is almost too easy with this character, because half the things that attack me die before they reach me, and the other half just plain can't hit me.[/QUOTE]

*nods* Ranged weaponry can certainly pack a punch.

BallOfFire · Post by **BallOfFire** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:11 pm

I didn't know there were items that increase skill points per level. Are they common? Are there unique ones that are always in the same spot, or all randomly generated? Now my powergaming side is going to feel guilty for not picking those up before getting all these levels I have. I read something about books in that super long thread you guys have going. Do those increase skills permanently? If so, could I just import my character to get more skills by getting the books again, so I don't have to worry about this missed skill points?

Is there a limit to how much skill costs increase? Like will it take 4 skill points to increase a skill by one point, and then never take 5?

By the way, I had the weirdest dream the other night, and I have to share it with someone. I kinda floating in the air looking down at this island, and a huge shockwave of water or something appeared in the middle and rippled outward, then I went flying horizontally and lurched all over the place as I skimmed over the island, seeing it from all these beautiful angles. Then had no control over myself, and flew outward, but it felt more like falling. As I zoomed away from it, it started to resemble what was in my dream the Black Isle logo, and I instantly recognized I was watching the little video at the beginning of a game. But then I lurched backwards, and turned around, finding myself in a plane looking out the window at the island. I looked around the plane, and all of a sudden it started diving down toward the water. The captain said remorsefully, "Here we go . . .," and we dove toward the water. I thought to myself, "This is it. I'm about to die," at the same time I had this elated adrenaline feeling. The plane plunged into the water, and I thought, "I need to get out now or I'm going to drown! How can I get out!? Oh no, while I'm thinking we are going hundreds of feet further down! . . . It's too late. What am I thinking!? I can't give up. I'm going to drown down here, and there is nothing I can do about it." So I just let the adrenaline rush of my final moments take me over, and accepted my fate.

Ravager · Post by **Ravager** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:44 am

Well, you should be able to find a Belt and a Necklace of Voodoo somewhere in the game, they're not really common but I've always found them in some treasure of a merchant's inventory at some point. When you wear both of those items at the same time, they grant you an extra skill point per level.

Once, I got a Helm of Focused Logic that increases Intelligence by 1 (and grants an extra skill ptper level due to that) but those are rare.
There are probably other items that increase skill points too, just keep an eye out for them, visit merchants regularly etc.

I can't remember off the top of my head, but I think there is something in the manual that describes how many points are needed to upgrade a skill when it gets to a certain level. That might describe some kind of cap to how many points are needed to upgrade a skill.
One thing I found out relatively recently was that if you get a perk that increases a skill by X points, that also complies to however many points to upgrade a skill, e.g. it takes 2 points to upgrade a skill by 1 and you get a perk that raises a skill by 15, the skill would skill wouldn't be upgraded by 15 but closer to 7.

Interesting dream, though a little fatalistic.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:48 am

[QUOTE=BallOfFire] I didn't get Inherited Resistance because I decided to save the point to put in something better when it became available. As for my disease weakeness, I figured I would just get Disease Ward to become immune to disease.[/quote]

Potty, my dear, if you don't mind my saying so! :laugh: If you are not taking a Perk on the levels they become available, that is! Of course you can do without Inherited Resistance if you prefer, but did you take another Perk instead? I do hope you did! :speech:

[QUOTE=BallOfFire]Fljotsdale, I'm a bit confused by your second post. You said "I also EQUIP any items that increase skill points on level-up as soon as I notice I am within 300 to 500 skill points of leveling. This will almost certainly leave your character weaker for a short time, but is well worth it, imo." I'm assuming you meant to say unequip, but why do that before a level up? I was just going to do it right after leveling but before distributing skills, just in case skill increasing items increased the skill point cost per level.[/quote]

As Ravager said in his post: you can get items that increase skill points if YOU ARE WEARING THEM when you level up: Necklet and belt of Voodoo, Helm of Focused Logic, armour of Skill (or something like that. Some increase weapon skills, or Mana; some increase your skill points by 1 on level-up.) It is worth keeping such items in your inventory to equip just before leveling.

[QUOTE=BallOfFire]I'm level 9 already and still going ^^. This is almost too easy with this character, because half the things that attack me die before they reach me, and the other half just plain can't hit me.[/QUOTE]

Congrats!

And here are the stats Ravager mentioned were in the Manual (Page 65):

skill
0-75 costs 1 skill point to raise 1
76-125 costs 2 skill points to raise 1
126-175 costs 4 skill points to raise 1
176-225 costs 6 skill points to raise 1
226-300 costs 8 skill points to raise 1

So you can see why we are obsessed with the number of skill points we get! Which is why I only used Gifted once.

BallOfFire · Post by **BallOfFire** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:38 pm

Ooooo thanks. Page 65 of the manual was one of the few I didn't memorize before I lost it. And no I did not get a skill in place of inherited resistance, I'm saving up perks to get 3 Gain attribute perks at once ^^.

There doesn't happen to be any way to alter a character to cheats or third party programs does there? I used to use ShadowKeeper for Baldur's Gate, and it was so nice because whenever I made a mistake I could just fix it with that instead of starting over. Right now I'm not progressing in the game because, believe it or not, I feel too guilty not maxing my strength and charisma, since those are the only attributes you can't increase infinitely through importing characters. My powergaming side is taking me over completely now *_*. Also, I'm trying to decide whether to roleplay or use the GameBanshee walkthrough, because I want to have fun with this but I know I won't if I miss out on something through choosing the wrong dialogue options or something.

By the way, I'm never flying on a plane again because that dream was way too real. I tend to have dreams about things and then they come true . . .

Hill-Shatar · Post by **Hill-Shatar** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:03 pm

Also, I'm trying to decide whether to roleplay or use the GameBanshee walkthrough, because I want to have fun with this but I know I won't if I miss out on something through choosing the wrong dialogue options or something.

The nice thing about RPGs is that they are always replayable. So Ravager and Fljotsdale may have shown through that thread of theirs that they have both made it through the game often.

Although, it might be nice for those two to divulge some of the more secretive sections of the game in the area your around right now...

Otherwise, beat the game, read the walkthrough, figure out just how much you really missed

o) and play through again. It's worth it.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:26 pm

[QUOTE=BallOfFire] Ooooo thanks. Page 65 of the manual was one of the few I didn't memorize before I lost it. And no I did not get a skill in place of inherited resistance, I'm saving up perks to get 3 Gain attribute perks at once ^^.[/quote]

Ok. Your game.

[QUOTE=BallOfFire]There doesn't happen to be any way to alter a character to cheats or third party programs does there? I used to use ShadowKeeper for Baldur's Gate, and it was so nice because whenever I made a mistake I could just fix it with that instead of starting over. [/quote]

I've never used cheats. Could never see the point. You don't actually win the game if you cheat, you just get to the end of it - and what satisfaction is there in that?
So - I don't know any cheat codes. I just save game a lot so I can reload if needed, without having to replay too much. Though one nice thing about replaying an area is you get a second bite at the chests - though you may also lose something good you found in one of 'em!

[QUOTE=BallOfFire]Right now I'm not progressing in the game because, believe it or not, I feel too guilty not maxing my strength and charisma, since those are the only attributes you can't increase infinitely through importing characters. My powergaming side is taking me over completely now *_*. [/quote]

Don't you get any fun out of playing a weak character and WINNING in spite of it? I do.

[QUOTE=BallOfFire]Also, I'm trying to decide whether to roleplay or use the GameBanshee walkthrough, because I want to have fun with this but I know I won't if I miss out on something through choosing the wrong dialogue options or something.[/quote]

Personally, I like my first experience of a game to be totally fresh and new, so I don't read walkthoughs until I've had several goes on my own. I haven't read all the Lionheart walkthough, even so, just bits of it. I learned more from Ravager than from the walkthrough, but I did pick up a few bits from it I hadn't found out myself.

[QUOTE=BallOfFire]By the way, I'm never flying on a plane again because that dream was way too real. I tend to have dreams about things and then they come true . . .[/QUOTE]

I've never been on a plane. Not scared - just not had the opportunity or the cash to travel much. I prefer books and computers, anyway! :laugh:

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:30 pm

[QUOTE=Hill-Shatar]The nice thing about RPGs is that they are always replayable. So Ravager and Fljotsdale may have shown through that thread of theirs that they have both made it through the game often. [/quote]

Ravager much more often than me!

[QUOTE=Hill-Shatar]Although, it might be nice for those two to divulge some of the more secretive sections of the game in the area your around right now...

[/quote]

Happy to, if he asks the questions, lol!

[QUOTE=Hill-Shatar]Otherwise, beat the game, read the walkthrough, figure out just how much you really missed

o) and play through again. It's worth it.

[/QUOTE]

I agree.

BallOfFire · Post by **BallOfFire** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:46 pm

Sadly, I get neither satisfaction nor enjoyment from games. They just give me another world to enter for a while to forget about the real one, which is exactly what I need. So playing a weak character isn't very fun, and I don't miss out on any satisfaction by cheating (though I only do very minor cheats, just to save me from having to load an old saved game). Maybe I'll try going without a walkthrough and see how long it takes before guilt overcomes me and I have to give it up. Lol. At the moment I am trying to recruit my online friends from Warcraft III to play Lionheart on multiplayer with me, to make it more fun and so I can have a second character going since I can't stop thinking about how much I want to start over as a mage of some sort.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:52 pm

[QUOTE=BallOfFire]Sadly, I get neither satisfaction nor enjoyment from games. They just give me another world to enter for a while to forget about the real one, which is exactly what I need. So playing a weak character isn't very fun, and I don't miss out on any satisfaction by cheating (though I only do very minor cheats, just to save me from having to load an old saved game). Maybe I'll try going without a walkthrough and see how long it takes before guilt overcomes me and I have to give it up. Lol. At the moment I am trying to recruit my online friends from Warcraft III to play Lionheart on multiplayer with me, to make it more fun and so I can have a second character going since I can't stop thinking about how much I want to start over as a mage of some sort.[/QUOTE]

No satisfaction or fun...:speech: Sheesh! What's the point? I'd rather read a book than play a game I don't get any fun or satisfaction from! Well - I read a lot as well as playing games, lol!

Well - start over with a mage, then!

If I'm unhappy with a char, I ditch her and start over.

BallOfFire · Post by **BallOfFire** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:51 pm

I'd never finish with a mage unless it was multiplayer. And I can't read, I'm too ADHD. Honestly I find every author I've ever read boring because either they don't write as well as me so I am always thinking about the problems with their writing, or they just aren't intelligent enough to be worth my time. I finally decided to read A Brief History of Time by Stephen Hawkings, but even that was far too simplistic and dull ><. So much for reading.

BallOfFire · Post by **BallOfFire** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:58 pm

I have an idea. If there aren't too many things, could someone just list the quests where you get the best items (attribute increasers, unique powerful bows, etc) or perks or whatever my powergaming side will kill me for if I miss, so I can roleplay the game with the exception of when it is time to get these items? Then I could avoid the walkthrough almost completely. Might be too big of a task though so don't bother if it is.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:55 pm

Ah... I suspicioned you thought a lot of yourself, ROFL!!! :laugh: Personally, I didn't find A Brief History of Time dull. Simple, yes, because it was written for the general public, but not dull.
Go read a Philip Pullman book if you want good story-telling skills. Or a Terry Pratchett if want a laugh. He's not a bad writer, either. But you won't, I'm sure, if you have ADHD!!

It ain't that the writers are bad, dear, it's you who can't give sufficient attention to see how good they are. Not your fault, your misfortune. You may grow out of it, though. I believe many ADHD people do, though I have only had personal experience with one grandchild, who HAS almost grown out of it at age 14.

As for telling where good items are... yes there ARE some you will only find in specific places, or with specific merchants/people, but there are not that many of them, and you are unlikely to miss them if you complete each map and location.

There are 3 nice bows and one hammer that I know of. There may be other stuff I don't remember off-hand.

One bow you can get on the Douro Plains map, from the trader.
One is on the Montaillou map, below a stone head.
One is in the Final location behind a secret door.
The hammer is Everlasting which you can get from Bounty Hunters in a small map near the bottom of the Goblin map when you do the Dryad's quest.

BallOfFire · Post by **BallOfFire** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:25 pm

Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for those items. I am actually going to college right now, so I'm reading several hundred pages per day, but it requires all my effort and is pretty torturous. I just can't stand to spend that much time in someone else's head who has less going on there than myself =P. I'm told it's arrogance, but I prefer "recognized intellectual superiority." ^^

By the way... Terry Pratchett... isn't that the person who wrote the Shanara series? I loved those books back in Junior High, but I doubt they could retain my interest these days. My problem is I started reading for pleasure at a young age, so by Junior High I was already reading adult level books, including many that not even most adults would understand. I just kept reading harder and harder books until there was no where to go from there. Any harder and its just purposeful obscurity on the part of authors in a conceited attempt to disguise their own shortcomings.

Fljotsdale · Post by **Fljotsdale** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:42 am

[QUOTE=BallOfFire] Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for those items. I am actually going to college right now, so I'm reading several hundred pages per day, but it requires all my effort and is pretty torturous. I just can't stand to spend that much time in someone else's head who has less going on there than myself =P. I'm told it's arrogance, but I prefer "recognized intellectual superiority." ^^[/quote]

Well, of course you would, lol!:laugh:

[QUOTE=BallOfFire]By the way... Terry Pratchett... isn't that the person who wrote the Shanara series? I loved those books back in Junior High, but I doubt they could retain my interest these days.[/quote]

No no NO!! :speech: That's Terry BROOKS - dreadful writer! I never could imagine why he was so popular. I only ever read two then decided not to bother any more. Urgh.
Terry Pratchett is a different kettle of fish altogether! He is The Discworld writer.

[QUOTE=BallOfFire]My problem is I started reading for pleasure at a young age, so by Junior High I was already reading adult level books, including many that not even most adults would understand. [/quote]

You and me both. Though I find it hard to believe an ADHD child could be persuaded to do much reading...??

[QUOTE=BallOfFire]I just kept reading harder and harder books until there was no where to go from there. Any harder and its just purposeful obscurity on the part of authors in a conceited attempt to disguise their own shortcomings.[/QUOTE]

I always preferred fiction when I was young; but as I got older I started reading as many factual books as fiction. Heh. The teaches at school always looked to see what book I had brought with me to read at playtime, because they were constantly amazed at the huge age range of the material I read - anything from Fairy Tales and Enid Blyton to Dickens and Chaucer. At ages 8-11.
I never went looking for difficult books. It was just that I was growing up during WW2 and afterwards and I didn't have many books of my own, so read my parents' and grandparents' books, because they were there, and because I was an obsessive reader.