[QUOTE=Frodo1]
..the following advantages:
1) Access to heavy weapons, armor, and shields with more than adequate learning bonuses to use any shield or weapon and wear Deathlord’s armor.
2) The learning bonuses in Arcane magic, by far and away the most powerful and effective offensive magic type. Plus, 2 learning bonuses in Nether magic, the most varied magic type and the second most powerful.
With this set of classes you’ll be an awesome fighter in addition to the most powerful mage possible, at least for a male.
Best female caster is a Mage-Fighter-Sorcerer-Valkyrie-War Witch. This is an even more powerful character than the above. War Witch is the most powerful caster class by far. It offers:
1) 3 learning bonuses of Arcane, 2 of Nether, 2 of Rune, and 1 of Celestial. Nuff said.
2) In addition to the above, it offers the same benefits for armor, shields, and weapons, with the addition of adding heavy pole arms to your arsenal.
My take on all this is that you need to melee often no matter how you set up a magic caster. It’s just a necessity. Having fighter instead of Adept allows you to max powerful magic classes and get just enough bonuses for the other stuff to be viable. A second point is who would want to basically throw away a Deathlord’s Plate, the Shield of the Dragon, or an awesome heavy weapon because you couldn’t possibly reach the requirements for equipping it without a massive penalty?
[/QUOTE]
I realize this is an older thread and post, but after reading numerous threads here this is one of the better ones (perhaps the best) I've seen on character creation for this game.
I have a few questions with regard to the logic here (and some interaction with the CE version). (Note that I haven't even started playing the game yet - But of course I want to plan an excellent character before playing, so please bear this in mind with regard to my novice questioning.)
Ok then, I like the idea of better magic than melee capability (say 65%magic/35%melee). ..And of course I want the best build possible to meet this paramater.
From various posts I've surmised (correctly or not) the following:
Magic Generally:
1. *casted* magic is weak early in the game, both in power and more importantly frequency (i.e. multiple spells).
2. as the game progresses *casted* magic is particularly usefull for eliminating large groups/enemy "swarms".
3. *casted* magic and high level opponents AND tight spots can be difficult, strongly suggesting the need for melee capability.
5. non-casted magic via many magic weapons overcomes the "frequency" limitation and scales in power with the magic user's class/discipline and skill as long as the magic user meets the prerequisites for that weapon (Magic Weapon skill), AND the weapon's effect is based on the magic user's discipline and skill (..i.e. an arcane weapon effect is *only* increased in power with an arcane specific discipline class level and/or increasing skill ability in the arcane discipline - not with say the nether discipline).
Classes, Tiers, Leaning Bonuses, Skills, Heraldrys, and Prerequisites generally:
1. The greater number of classes in a specific discipline, the stronger that discipline will be all else equal. (i.e. a character with a mage class and a battle mage class will be stronger in either arcane or nether magic than a character with just the mage class and other non-arcane/nether classes.)
2. The higher the class Tier in a specific discipline, the stronger that discipline will be all else equal. (i.e. a character with a mage class and the tier 2 battle mage class will be stronger in arcane AND nether magic, despite NOT having a learning bonus in nether magic, than simply a mage class character.)
3. The higher the skill points in a discipline, the stronger that discipline will be all else equal.
4. The higher the class Tier in specific discipline, the easier it will be to increase skills in that discipline (..though learning bonuses have more impact).
5. The more learing bonuses for a skill, the easier it is to increase that skill.
6. Learning bonuses are *extremely important* and are class specific, so choose your classes carefully to maximise their number in skills you deem important.
7. Certain skills are only available to certain classes, this is particularly important with regard to prerequisits. (i.e. the WarWitch class not only requires a female (and a second tier sisterhood class), but also requires skill points in Heavy Weapons, Heavy Armor, and Heavy Shields - all of which are available to only a few classes.) Note that this is NOT the case for earlier versions of the game (i.e. before 1.4).
8. Heraldry's can offer some substantial bonuses - and should be HEAVILY factored into character planning. Note again, this is NOT the case for earlier versions of the game (i.e. before 1.4). Additionally, there is a maximum of 10 Heraldry's in the game, if an eleventh heraldry is gained it will replace the 10th Heraldry.
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1st question: Are these assumptions correct?
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With the above information (assuming its correct), planning a character (as desired: excellent magic 65% and melee 35%) suggests the following:
1. The desire for varied magic ability suggests having access AND stregth/power in all 4 magic disciplines (i.e. Arcane, Nether, Celestial, and Rune).
2. To obtain strength/power in each discipline, numerous class Tiers and Learning Bonuses are neccesary that complement each discipline.
3. The requirement from number 2 suggests magic oriented classes at the expense of melee oriented classes IF required.
4. Melee ability must be compensated for, AND that compensation must be appropriate as the character develops.
5. The requirement of number 4 suggests several things: A. that melee capability can be augmented via magic weapons and magic augmentation and defenses; B. that armor can be augmented via magic defenses; C. that mixed classes should be chosen with melee specific learning bonuses; D. that "timing" these is important for an efficient and effective character at any stage of the game.
The *best* method to plan charcter development is to start with where you want to end-up.. i.e. a "top-down" view (or which tier 3 class?).
So from a "top down" look at character creation.. the best tier 3 class to meet the requirements of #1 above is the War Witch.
http://www.gamebanshee.com/dungeonlords ... rwitch.php
It is the ONLY magic class with all 4 disciplines of study, additionally it also has emphasis on melee capability. Of course with such a multi-disciplined character it will be more difficult to optimize, and as a result more difficult to play for at least the first half of the game. With that in mind, which classes will augment this final class AND allow for a less difficult "first half of the game"?
Well first of all there is the issue of prerequisites for the War Witch (and in particular the "sticking" points):
A. Must be a female Character
B. Must have a second Tier Sisterhood class: (Valkyrie or Enchantress)
C. Must have the difficult to obtain skills: (Heavy Weapon, Heavy Armor, Heavy Shield)
For "A" there are only two solutions Human Female or Elf Female - and I'm not sure which will be better for this build.. so:
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Second question: which female is better and why when considering all aspects of the character build?
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For "C" we have ONLY these choices: (Paladin, Knight, Battlemage, Valkyrie)
http://www.gamebanshee.com/dungeonlords ... aladin.php
http://www.gamebanshee.com/dungeonlords ... knight.php
http://www.gamebanshee.com/dungeonlords ... lemage.php
http://www.gamebanshee.com/dungeonlords ... lkyrie.php
To fully assess the development path of the character we need to consider cumulative classes, learning bonuses, and available Heraldrys when looking at these 4 classes in relation to other class options. This is what Frodo1 did above - and where I question the build he had given (i.e. "Mage-Fighter-Sorcerer-Valkyrie-War Witch") - and not incidentally where others questioned it as well.
OK then.. all of these Tier 2 classes have these attributes in common:
A. Learning Bonuses: Armor Skills & Shield Skills
B. New Skills: Heavy Armor, Heavy Shields, Heavy Weapons
The Learning Bonus differences for each class are:
Paladin: Basic Weapon Skills, Parry, Rune Magic
Knight: Basic Weapon Skills
Battlemage: Arcane Magic, Magic Weaponry, Repair
Valkyrie: Pole Weapon Skills, Rune Magic, Weapons Skills
The New Skills differences for each class are:
Paladin:Channel
Knight: -nada-
Battlemage: Scribe
Valkryie: Heavy Poles
Just looking at the Learning Bonus differences I notice that Knight gets "hosed". That the other 3 have some form of Magic bonus: 2 Runes and 1 Arcane - which is of paramount importance over any melee bonus. Therefor the selection will be from one of the 3 classes (Paladin, Battlemage, or Valkyrie) with a magic learning bonus.
