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[QUOTE=Maharlika]The way I see it, top-level positions would always call for more than just a two-page CV... [/QUOTE]

I completely agree. We always use 2 page CV:s, even when applying for top positions and multi-million international grants. I do however think this practice varies with culture and with type of job.

[quote="Hill]
On this side of the pond"]

Typically North American, you like to use a lot of words But it illustrates what I wrote above. I see quite a lot of CV:s, and something as long as 5 pages goes directly into the paper recycle bin.

For the job you are applying for, @Rookierookie, I would suggest something like this:

Personal information

Name: Rookierookie
Date of birth: xxxxxx
Adress: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Phone: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
E-mail: xxxxxxxxxx

Education

Level of education: Form 5 (Grade 11/12)
Courses: courses you have taken that are part of formal education

Qualifications

Excellent English, good Chinese language, some French and Japanese
whatever other skills you may have

Other activities

Courses or activities you've been participating in, like sports, art, school activities, clubs, appointments

Then end the CV with one single line that contains a brief description of yourself, like your interests and some good sides you wish to mention (like that you are punctual and that you have good social skills, which all employers like to hear).

[QUOTE=Darzog]So make with the whole EC-form. [/QUOTE]Just a little bit too big... (104 kB)

[QUOTE=C Elegans]But it illustrates what I wrote above. I see quite a lot of CV:s, and something as long as 5 pages goes directly into the paper recycle bin.[/QUOTE]

If I asked for your CV and you sent me a piddly 2 page resume, it would be dropped into the recycle bin as well. When I ask for a CV, I ask for your entire record of educational content and accomplishments. A resume is short and geared towards a job. CVs here actually follow the meaning of the latin words and are usually much longer.

Typical Europeans, always trying to cut corner's wherever they can.

[QUOTE=Hill-Shatar]When I ask for a CV, I ask for your entire record of educational content and accomplishments. A resume is short and geared towards a job. CVs here actually follow the meaning of the latin words and are usually much longer.

Typical Europeans, always trying to cut corner's wherever they can. [/QUOTE]

Bah, you North Americans just can't differentiate between what's important and not

Seriously though, this difference interest me - do you think the difference is due to geographical culture or differences in research fields? In my field, longish CV:s are only for junior researchers, who are unestablished in the area and wish to show everything they have ever done. For qualified positions and for major grants applications, long CV:s are viewed as unnecessary since your important accomplishments can be summed in a very short space. For instance, my prof uses a 1.5 page CV where, apart from formal degrees and major positions, he uses descriptions such as ">250 original articles in reviewed international journals" and ">200 invited speaker/chairman at international reviewed meetings" etc. Usually, you only list your 5 or 10 most important papers and your most important (read: prestigious) commissions of trust and international awards. This goes for all senior researchers I know who's CV:s I've seen.

C Elegans wrote:Bah, you North Americans just can't differentiate between what's important and not

Curriculum Vitae (Latin) = Course of Life. We follow the actual term of the word, woman. I'll just drop this for you.

Wikipedia wrote:In American English usage, a CV will include a comprehensive listing of professional history including every term of employment, academic credential, publication, contribution or significant achievement. In certain professions, it may even include samples of the person's work and may run to many pages. In contrast, a résumé is a summary typically limited to one or two pages highlighting only those experiences and credentials which the author considers most relevant to the desired position. CVs are the preferred recruiting tool for academic and medical professions while résumés are generally preferred for business employment.

As I've said, it's a North American thing. So that pretty much answers this little bit here...:

Seriously though, this difference interest me - do you think the difference is due to geographical culture or differences in research fields?

....which, unfortunately cuts off the rest of your posts, but I'll answer it anyway, to give myself a sense of accomplishment.

From what I've seen, some jobs have had a series of lengths in CVs. Given that most of us still have access to at least some of our co-worker's CVs when they seeked employment with us and sent it via e-mail, I can tell you that looking around the lab many of us have different sizes of CVs. We actually had to ask the two British and Australian people working with us to send us more along the lines of a Profile.

In my field, longish CV:s are only for junior researchers, who are unestablished in the area and wish to show everything they have ever done.

We prefer it. We have to know if this person has a history of scientific achievement throughout schooling and experience, or if they are just starting and what fields thay seemed to have the most experience in. If I can reference enough things together, the happier I am. I know a lot of people in Canadian universities thanks to me phoning up Professor's and asking on their students. Half know who it is, since I usually call the same time every year, before they pick the phone up.

Personally, if you want to come to this lab, I like to see which fields you have had paper's published in, which books and whether or not I have access to this paper or if I can speak to past co-workers on conduct and the like through the contact information in the CV.

I do the same, if I get a call asking on a co-worker, I simply ask them to send an e-mail so that I know the call is authentic through the adress and follow through with questions they might have, although I usually send any information they might require from me ahead of the applicant arriving if I know where they are going.

For qualified positions and for major grants applications, long CV:s are viewed as unnecessary since your important accomplishments can be summed in a very short space.

I typically want to know the paper's name and assosiates, etc, involved in the production of paper's and other accomplishments, before I consider anything. If your asking me to employ you in my lab, and another person asks as well, and both send me a CV which only has the difference of what the paper's are on, then I might choose whoever did more work or has more experience in the field.

For instance, my prof uses a 1.5 page CV where, apart from formal degrees and major positions, he uses descriptions such as ">250 original articles in reviewed international journals" and ">200 invited speaker/chairman at international reviewed meetings" etc.

All listed. I don't care in numbers as much as you Europeans seem to, I want to know what they are. This is a record of these achievements for us.

This goes for all senior researchers I know who's CV:s I've seen.

Same for me. Research techs and assosiates, right through to Doctors, including myself. Nice, thorough education and accomplishment records, basically.

Here's a nice thought for you... my father is a Geologist, and his CV is similar to my mother's and mine (she's also in the medical field, my twin is self-employed) as he lists his major accomplishments along the lines of importance to companie's of wells he's worked on, wells he's overseen and major decisions (millions of dollars) that he has made that have been successful.

Hill-Shatar wrote:Curriculum Vitae (Latin) = Course of Life. We follow the actual term of the word, woman. I'll just drop this for you.

So you are simply being Aspergic, right? Unable to grasp the meaning of a word in at a conceptual level?

As I've said, it's a North American thing. So that pretty much answers this little bit here...

Funny, this with "resumé" and "CV" in the academic vs business world is the other way around here, except we don't usually use the expression resumé. In the business world, it's much more common with long CV:s also for top positions but in the academic world it's not desired.

Personally, my only experience of North American CV:s are for NIH grants applications, but I have never been PI since you need to be at least ass prof to apply for NIH grants as a non-American - maybe they ask for longer CV:s for the PI:s. At my lab, we currently have two American PhD students at the moment, but they were recruited by NIH in our shared PhD-program, so I have never seen their CV:s.

Personally, if you want to come to this lab, I like to see which fields you have had paper's published in, which books and whether or not I have access to this paper or if I can speak to past co-workers on conduct and the like through the contact information in the CV.

Personal references from co-workers and former supervisors are considered to a large extent in Europe too, but for publications, we only count what is published in peer-reviewed press, the rest is counted as zilch except for PhD-students of course.

All listed. I don't care in numbers as much as you Europeans seem to, I want to know what they are. This is a record of these achievements for us.

Here, our reason is that we find it in Pubmed, so no need to list all papers Just the really important ones and the recent ones. Very often you will see something like 5 most important papers from last 2 years + 10 most important papers throughout your career.

Here's a nice thought for you... my father is a Geologist, and his CV is similar to my mother's and mine (she's also in the medical field, my twin is self-employed) as he lists his major accomplishments along the lines of importance to companie's of wells he's worked on, wells he's overseen and major decisions (millions of dollars) that he has made that have been successful.

Uh? Sorry, this I don't understand at all...do you mean it's the same in all fields in North America?

I'm not sure, the CV thing seems consistent throughout Europe/Asia. However, my father has to document his accomplishments, just like we have to document ours. Geology is, after all, a science, which was listed in the Wiki article above. His skills at finding fault-lines and wells is important to any company, if he can calculate and estimate where a good well would be.

Personal references from co-workers and former supervisors are considered to a large extent in Europe too, but for publications, we only count what is published in peer-reviewed press, the rest is counted as zilch except for PhD-students of course.

Pretty similar here.

Here, our reason is that we find it in Pubmed, so no need to list all papers Just the really important ones and the recent ones. Very often you will see something like 5 most important papers from last 2 years + 10 most important papers throughout your career.

We enjoy the rough copy a fair amount. We check through PubMed, but we also prefer a quick glance copy, without having to bring up the same page into a browser each time, as we don't always have time to go through all of them in an orderly fashion.

They are usually listed in chronilogical order here, not from importance, at least, in many CVs they are.

(ie, We have to have this done when!? )

So you are simply being Aspergic, right? Unable to grasp the meaning of a word in at a conceptual level?

I have no idea what you mean. [/male defense mechanism]