Perfect four member party

rbeverjr · Post by **rbeverjr** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:47 am

@cwell
I agree with your party - mostly. However, I typically reserve triple class characters for when I play less than 4 characters. I would change the FMT to a half-orc FT hero. Eventually, the FT will be able to use scrolls and items to give himself the beneficial mage spells when absolutely necessary. This character will in some ways be more powerful than the FM. This party is also very effective in ToB.

If I was just going to play ToB, I may also choose the FMT; so, he could easily buff himself. Hmmm, hard choice whether FMT or FT. For me, I choose to face some of the toughest challenges in SoA early (makes them even more challenging); so, I need a lot of ability early. The triple classes really blossom in power later.

Because I need power early, I prefer multiclass to dual class parties. A group of fighters (typical first class of the dual class) only is not optimal for the challenges I take. (Another reason I prefer multiclass is that multiclass gets HLAs quicker and more of them in ToB.) The racial stat/ability advantages are nice too.

I personally favor using the NPCs. It adds to the atmosphere and keeps the cheese level down. I also use them stock to keep the cheese down (and because I don't like to take the time to alter the NPCs). I typically favor a 5 member party with the sixth slot open to fulfill NPC quests. This allows me to experience the greatest diversity in spells and equipment, and is chosen for my own enjoyment. You can beat this game with 1-6 characters and pretty much any class you want. I think the designers wanted you to be able to do so.

Any way, the 5 members I use are very powerful too, but I have a long list of strictures I play by to increase the challenge. I use a fighter-thief hero, Edwin, Keldorn, Jaheira, and Viconia. (Note: not considering NPCs from mods here - some of which are overwhelmingly cheesy.) Edwin is the most powerful mage. It's arguable which is the best cleric (Anomen, Aerie, or Viconia), but I believe that Viconia is the most powerful throughout most of the game. (Aerie is probably the most powerful later in ToB.) Jaheira's druid spells, supplemented by some fighting ability, are very useful. Inquisitors are excellent against enemy spell casters, responsible for some of the toughest battles. The fighter-thief can make many tough battles easy through back stab and in-character-knowledge trapping.

rbeverjr · Post by **rbeverjr** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:49 am

[QUOTE=Cwell the fine]I'm a fan of the 4 person party. If I were to create all of the NPC's, my party would look something like this:

Half-Elf Cleric/Ranger
Elf Fighter/Mage/Thief
Gnome Fighter/Illusionist
Human Paladin (Inquisitor)

The Cleric/Ranger is your main healer, and makes a great tank. The Fighter/Mage/Thief is your utility back-up guy, used mainly as an archer and can handle all of the thieving duties as well as some buffing magic. The Gnome Fighter/Illusionist is probably the most powerful character. He makes a great tank, is an awesome spellcaster, and resists most spells. The Inquisitor is for taking down enemy mages -- fast.[/QUOTE]

@cwell
I agree with your party - mostly. However, I typically reserve triple class characters for when I play less than 4 characters. I would change the FMT to a half-orc FT hero. Eventually, the FT will be able to use scrolls and items to give himself the beneficial mage spells when absolutely necessary. This character will in some ways be more powerful than the FM. This party is also very effective in ToB.

If I was just going to play ToB, I may also choose the FMT; so, he could easily buff himself. Hmmm, hard choice whether FMT or FT. For me, I choose to face some of the toughest challenges in SoA early (makes them even more challenging); so, I need a lot of ability early. The triple classes really blossom in power later.

Because I need power early, I prefer multiclass to dual class parties. A group of only fighters (typical first class of the dual class) is not optimal for the challenges I take. (Another reason I prefer multiclass is that multiclass gets HLAs quicker and more of them in ToB.) The racial stat/ability advantages are nice too.

I personally favor using the NPCs. It adds to the atmosphere and keeps the cheese level down. I also use them stock to keep the cheese down (and because I don't like to take the time to alter the NPCs). I typically favor a 5 member party with the sixth slot open to fulfill NPC quests. This allows me to experience the greatest diversity in spells and equipment, and is chosen for my own enjoyment. You can beat this game with 1-6 characters and pretty much any class you want. I think the designers wanted you to be able to do so.

Any way, the 5 members I use are very powerful too, but I have a long list of strictures I play by to increase the challenge. I use a fighter-thief hero, Edwin, Keldorn, Jaheira, and Viconia. (Note: not considering NPCs from mods here - some of which are overwhelmingly cheesy.) Edwin is the most powerful mage. It's arguable which is the best cleric (Anomen, Aerie, or Viconia), but I believe that Viconia is the most powerful throughout most of the game. (Aerie is probably the most powerful later in ToB.) Jaheira's druid spells, supplemented by some fighting ability, are very useful. Inquisitors are excellent against enemy spell casters, responsible for some of the toughest battles. The fighter-thief can make many tough battles easy through back stab and in-character-knowledge trapping.

Celacena · Post by **Celacena** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:17 am

First Non-Good Party

at the moment, my party is the PC, N, Viconia LE, Yoshimo N and Korgan CE

Jaheira pops in and out at the moment.

while I am doing the Thieves guild quests I probably keep those 4 as they seem to work OK.
PC is a figher dualled at 10 to mage, mage level now 11
Viconia - lvl 12 cleric - using mauler's arm to get str18 (from 10)
Yoshimo - lvl 11 (I think) pure thief - balanced across abilities
Korgan - lvl? hired muscle but given an axe and armour from my cache so he can be cannon fodder.

Jaheira - went AWOL as she does from time to time - druid lvl 12 fighter 11 (I think) - insect plague is such a great disrupter of attackers that I might well keep her around for that.

If I took the 6 party option, I may add Edwin as a 2nd caster for a while, but I don't know how well he fares.

as a N, I don't disagree with Korgan's right to be CE, but that alignment doesn't help the PCs plans. Viconia is much better as a party member, but you do need muscle as well.
Keldorn is so much more use, but there isn't an anti-paladin to take on your crew if you aren't good. I wouldn't mind the Saverok under geas as the E-inclined muscle.

Da_venom · Post by **Da_venom** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:10 am

this are the facts
6 beat's 4

all is on level depended with more charachters you have more spells more hp and such

in early stages less than 6 would be nice giving more xp and such
but later on things would get harder

there is just a drawback of it
but playing with 4 is fun

i agree

Amran_X_Kaiser · Post by **Amran_X_Kaiser** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:11 pm

Reply

All this 4 v 6 talk is interesting.

Wonder what playing with 5 would be like....

Da_venom · Post by **Da_venom** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:47 pm

same as 4
a same level 6 party say all lvl 10
will still kill a 4 party of lvl 10
it's just for the challenge to do it

Sytze · Post by **Sytze** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:46 pm

Except for the fact that that 6-member party will not be at level 10, while a 4-member party will. That's why four are stronger than six. You level up faster, get better spells faster, have more XP faster, etc.

Amran_X_Kaiser · Post by **Amran_X_Kaiser** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:54 am

Reply

By that logic it seems that all the 4's would be level 10 vs the 6's level 9.

Level 4 would win in the end.

But I guess that puts the end to my 5 party - they would all be level 9 1/2 and would get wasted by both parties probably.

Da_venom · Post by **Da_venom** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:33 am

[QUOTE=Sytze]Except for the fact that that 6-member party will not be at level 10, while a 4-member party will. That's why four are stronger than six. You level up faster, get better spells faster, have more XP faster, etc.[/QUOTE]

what makes you think that?
1-2 levels apart really doesn't that make of a big difference...

besides your 2 characters extra will have hp and spells too so it would be pretty fair better think slightly advantage of the 6 party since they have more to keep the 4 characters occupied

but then again equipment is also a factor
besides level's ain't all
since player skill is a very depending skill

Amran_X_Kaiser · Post by **Amran_X_Kaiser** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:20 pm

Reply

It seems alot of users are forgetting about class - whilst a 4 member party may have a level 10 fighter/mage/theif, a 6 member party may a level 9 assassin and level 9 kensai/mage - the roles of classes also play an important factor in my opinion. Same effect - melee, mage and theif orientated factor but with the slight difference of the 6 member party not requiring to be forced into a situation where a class is a must due to limitation of options.

Da_venom · Post by **Da_venom** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:43 am

classes are just a small factor
skill of the player and equipment is a far more interesting part
especially in 4-5-6 parties
although at higher level for casters the equipment will be less and less interesting but still for the melee types it will

Amran_X_Kaiser · Post by **Amran_X_Kaiser** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:19 am

Reply

Afraind im going to have to disagree with you there, on some level the classes that a 4 member party uses is more selective as it as to cater for more needs and thus may not be as flexible as a 6 member party considering the varying party member classes.

Da_venom · Post by **Da_venom** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:34 am

just see it like this
you have the four character party

and you have to six character party the six party has the same classes as the four character party only the party of 6 has to extra classes
so why would an 4 party be better?

as i said before
in the beginning 6 party is stronger during the beginning he four level party will become stronger not long though, since the party of six will eventually gain in on the strenght of the four member party
so either way
it's the party's of 6 end

Celacena · Post by **Celacena** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:46 am

Levelling the land

with 6 levelling is slower

if you want to zip ahead, it can be worth playing some missions with 1 or 2 - providing that you don't face too strong a team opposing. saying that, for the XP and the Staff, yesterday I solo'd the Twisted Rune having bought the scroll of Protection from magic and stocked up with extra healing potions. just as well I had the amulet that the shadow theif guy gives you to protect against level drain - took some while to dispose of the TR - summoning help kept me out of trouble to some extent - but it was really tough - the efreet (plural) that were summoned against me could have finished me off even after Shalangar had fallen.

so - for XP the smaller the party the quicker the rise - but if you are just enjoying the RPG, 6 offers more.

Amran_X_Kaiser · Post by **Amran_X_Kaiser** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:20 am

Reply

Nah I still believe that 6 npcs can kill 4 npcs (based on - the 6 character party wouldn't have the same classes, they'd have variation to allow for maximum utilization of their npcs - although its the tactic used by each that will ultimately, including the use of wands, spells, combat abilities that would win the day.

Basically its dependant on the user skills more than anything.

Try seeing it like this;

6 Member Party consisting of:

Undead Hunter, Assassin, Archer, Barbarian, Priest of Helm, Conjurer

vs

Berserker/Cleric, Fighter/Mage/Thief, Fighter/Druid, Sorcerer

- its the need to be able to allow for every part of the game to be covered - melee, healing, theivery, offensive and dispelling magic. If the 4 member party would only choose one, regardless of racial bonuses, they would be severely weakened. Although the 4 member party does allow for levelling up to be quicker, thus making the dual-classed or multi-class npcs on par with the 6 member party specialists - the 4 member party would also give the benefit of being able to cover every aspect of the game as a 6 member party.

Ok class what have we learned ?

If you dual/multi-class for a 4 member the class would be able to cover two aspects of a 6 member party, but the specifics - hp bonuses, having cannon fodder or another backup etc is out of the question - but that only requires greater tactics to be utilized. Although the Sorcerer would level up quickly and become powerful in a 4 member party.

Also, for the remaining users who have opinions - would a party of 5 have the same prospects as the 4/6 party members in terms of ability and tactic utilization.

Posts appreciated.

Da_venom · Post by **Da_venom** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:50 am

what exactly are you asking for?
most questions are already answered
it really doesn't matter if your party consist of 1or 6 or whatever

it's the player's skill that makes a party usefull or not
it's the equipment what makes a party strong

and the facts are the less party members the more XP you will gain, In the beginning It wil benefit you GReATLY but the longer you go around with 4 the less benefits it has
in the end the party which has more member will win cause of the extra characters

but this has already been said before so why keep going on?

Amran_X_Kaiser · Post by **Amran_X_Kaiser** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:00 pm

Reply

No idea maybe on of the following; boredom, a burning need to exhaust the topic, curiosity - who knows

But also maybe, a final note that you gave at the end of what the entire thread was about without requiring to read through the entire thread to gain the outcome of the discussion. But that's all semantics so its time for something new

Da_venom got this whole thread in a nutshell

'End Thread' (or is it Fable that does that?

)

Thrifalas · Post by **Thrifalas** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:57 am

Well, think three powerhouses and a side-kick. Something like this:

Ranger/Cleric (for obvious reasons)
Sorceress (Boo-yah.

)
Kensai->Mage (kickin' some ass!)
Thief->Fighter (supporting the powerhouses)

Give or take a class or two. I'm guessing this one won't let you down though.

rbeverjr · Post by **rbeverjr** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:34 am

I think it is the skill of the player that is the most crucial factor in how easy the game is. In late ToB, the large party should technically be more capable than the small party because progression of power (attack bonus, saves, HP, etc.) are slowed. However, I sometimes wonder if the game adjusts the opposition to the hero's party. (I've not done any tests, but often I have felt that the opposition was less with a party of 4.) At any rate, a party of 4 can certainly dominate. The best equipment is shared by 4 instead of 6. You have skeleton warriors and time stop sooner, etc. I'm not sure that 6 characters are better than 4 throughout SoA.

Elmonster is a good example of how a solo character can dominate the game. Several other characters have soloed the game. That being the case, I suggest that everyone play with the number of characters that they are comfortable with. You certainly don't need 6 or 4 or any particular number of characters to win this game.

Cwell the fine · Post by **Cwell the fine** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:26 am

6 v. 4

I think 6 is more powerful, but 4 makes it a bit different for a grizzled veteran, so therefore more fun.

The first time I beat BG2 all the way was with 5 members, and added Sarevok in ToB.