Would you defend yourself against a member of the opposite sex?

[Darzog]

[QUOTE=Denethorn]@fable Then that mother needs professional help, and her child possibly taken from her, not a punch to the face?[/QUOTE]
Actually I think a punch to the face is exactly what they need. Followed by a kick to the face.

@Mag,
I come from a slightly different perspective. I am 5'7", 140lb. Most people that would be coming at me would be larger than I would and leaving 4 steps is a luxury I may not have. In circumstances where I am massively undersized, I would only use steps 1, 3 and 4. Once they actually attack, I usually don't have the option to cause pain before I'm in serious trouble. So I usually warn, then if they still come after me I jump to maim (especially if there are more than one person).

[Aramant]

I will have no problem hurting a girl/woman if she's trying to hurt me. I'm short and have a very slight build besides, so that whole "men are more physically powerful than women" thing simply doesn't apply. No matter who the person is, if I can stop him or her from hurting me, I will.

Besides, have you seen how pointy women's shoes are now?

[Magrus]

And why shouldn't a child be allowed to defend themselves against their mother, if that mother regularly beats them out of frustration? Is the child supposed to tell them to seek professional help? Do you think my mother would have stopped beating me when I was seven if I'd said such a thing--assuming I'd even been capable of knowing what to do--or simply renewed her attack more forcefully?

*Nods* I remember my talks with Cassie when she was 15. Her father used to beat her with a bamboo cane he got on a business trip. For...whatever reason he had, frustration, being drunk, his wife pissing him off, daughter asking too many questions...whatever. Normally, in a situation where a child is abused by a father, the child runs to the mother. Thats how it was in my family. Which...I will delve into after this....In her family, if she went to her mother with the intent to seek sanctuary, the mother would beat her so that she wouldn't herself be struck for protecting her child. An effort in appeasing her husband. She ran away from home the day she left school because of how sore she was from the beating her father gave her the night before. Her mother stopped by the house on her lunch hour, and did what? Screamed at Cassie, and started punching and kicking her saying she was a horrible child for skipping school.

Cassie snapped, broke her mothers jaw, 3 ribs, and her left arm. Then ran to her cousins house, and her aunt and cousin gave her the keys to her older cousins car and told her to leave the state. Why? Her father was friends with the chief of police in town, and the police would believe whatever the father said. If she hadn't have done that, I don't know...*shrugs* Maybe she's still be alive. But....maybe her father would have beaten her to death for skipping school? Who knows.

Myself, I always ran to my mother when my father hit me. Why? My father thought it was wrong to hit women. He always...always shouted that at us. Whenever he was frustrated with my mother, he would hit me, or if I wasn't nearby, my little brother. Whatever in his mind that made him feel it was good and proper to beat on a kid because the kid was male and not his wife when she made him angry, I don't know. Not that either option is a good way of reacting by any means, but still...it's always made me wonder. I have protective instincts in regards to women, in fact, if I am out with my female friends, and I have the money to do so, I tend to pay for their food if we have breakfast/lunch/dinner. I don't do that when dating someone as often, but it is just something that I feel is "right".

They tend to get upset, with the viewpoint I am implying they cannot pay for themselves, but that's not it at all. No, it is the fact, realistically, in most situations I know a male will make more money than a female in this world, and that, I feel obligates me to treat them occasionally. Knowing, if we got the same job at the same company, chances are my female friend and I would have differing pay, and mine being higher makes me want to occasionally show them that I do appreciate them, and find them worthy of going out of my way to do something simple, yet special for them. Anyhow, that doesn't have anything to do with this I don't think. I'm drunk and rambling.

@Mag,
I come from a slightly different perspective. I am 5'7", 140lb. Most people that would be coming at me would be larger than I would and leaving 4 steps is a luxury I may not have. In circumstances where I am massively undersized, I would only use steps 1, 3 and 4. Once they actually attack, I usually don't have the option to cause pain before I'm in serious trouble. So I usually warn, then if they still come after me I jump to maim (especially if there are more than one person).

*Nods* I do the same when outnumbered...When I am surrounded, that rule flies out of the window so to speak. Being outnumbered and attacked can easily end up as accidental fatal force being used. I warn them all, and once the first punch is thrown, I go all out. I distinctly remember times when I was punched and kicked by more than one person as I beat their friend into the ground. I then turned on one of them, and upon them seeing the state their friend was in, and my still being functional with all of them attacking me, they all ran off, leaving their friend on the ground. Sometimes you just have to be brutal, cruel and do your best to appear as frightening as you can.

I'm bigger than you though, currently roughly 6 foot tall and about 220lbs. The chances of 1 person picking a fight with me with the hopes to succeed is small unless he/she is trained in a martial art or has a weapon. No, I've been attacked by groups since the age of 6, and I learned scare tactics when fighting.

[fable]

I think the case of a male child defending himself against an abusive mother or even in general an abusive female is arguably a different case.

The thread is set in terms of gender. How different is it, then? The mother is female; the female is the attacker.

Furthermore, would physical defense on the child's part prove any more successful than telling said parent to go and receive therapy?

Again, the thread was not set in terms of success or failure, but whether any attempt would be made at physical defense when the attacker was of the opposite sex.

But to answer your question: yes, if a child was capable of mounting a defense, any defense, it certainly could make a difference. That was the case for me. I honestly thought all other families were like my own and that I was pretty worthless, because my mother told me so from a very early age. It wasn't until I was in my mid-teens that I suddenly realized there was no need for me to simply take it. One day, she tried hauling off with another bitch slap, and I simply caught her forearm and said, "What do you think you're doing?" It was nothing I had even thought possible, before. Suddenly she looked foolish, my father (who only wanted peace in the house ) and my sister started chuckling. That was the last time she ever raised a hand to me. She found other ways to vent her anger (at one point she simply threw out everything I'd ever owned), but never physically, again.

[DaemonJ]

[QUOTE=Darzog]I come from a slightly different perspective. I am 5'7", 140lb. Most people that would be coming at me would be larger than I would and leaving 4 steps is a luxury I may not have. In circumstances where I am massively undersized, I would only use steps 1, 3 and 4. Once they actually attack, I usually don't have the option to cause pain before I'm in serious trouble. So I usually warn, then if they still come after me I jump to maim (especially if there are more than one person).[/QUOTE]
Same here except that I am 5'8" and 150 lbs.

[Aramant]

omg 5'7" 130 lbs.!

[fable]

*Nods* I remember my talks with Cassie when she was 15. Her father used to beat her with a bamboo cane he got on a business trip. For...whatever reason he had, frustration, being drunk, his wife pissing him off, daughter asking too many questions...whatever. Normally, in a situation where a child is abused by a father, the child runs to the mother. Thats how it was in my family. Which...I will delve into after this....In her family, if she went to her mother with the intent to seek sanctuary, the mother would beat her so that she wouldn't herself be struck for protecting her child. An effort in appeasing her husband. She ran away from home the day she left school because of how sore she was from the beating her father gave her the night before. Her mother stopped by the house on her lunch hour, and did what? Screamed at Cassie, and started punching and kicking her saying she was a horrible child for skipping school.

Cassie snapped, broke her mothers jaw, 3 ribs, and her left arm. Then ran to her cousins house, and her aunt and cousin gave her the keys to her older cousins car and told her to leave the state. Why? Her father was friends with the chief of police in town, and the police would believe whatever the father said. If she hadn't have done that, I don't know...*shrugs* Maybe she's still be alive. But....maybe her father would have beaten her to death for skipping school? Who knows.

This is a truly horrible story, and all too common. The traditional family structure has two adults ruling it (in one form, or another), and children subservient--literally so, since they have next to no rights under the laws of any nation, and are completely dependent for their existence upon the goodwill of those parents. Yet some parents see children, as both you and I have pointed out, as a means of venting, despite the fact that they may seem perfectly normal to their own friends. They may never even realize they've done anything wrong. My mother, who is now 82, still can't accept her own past conduct. Until fairly recently she would continue to disparagingly say things like, "You really didn't have it that bad," and that would lead me to state in a neutral voice a series of events in which she slapped or punched me around, or did other things on a regular basis just to be as mean as possible. She's stopped, now, but only because she thinks I'm a dreadful person when I respond in this fashion.

Myself, I always ran to my mother when my father hit me. Why? My father thought it was wrong to hit women. He always...always shouted that at us. Whenever he was frustrated with my mother, he would hit me, or if I wasn't nearby, my little brother. Whatever in his mind that made him feel it was good and proper to beat on a kid because the kid was male and not his wife when she made him angry, I don't know. Not that either option is a good way of reacting by any means, but still...it's always made me wonder. I have protective instincts in regards to women, in fact, if I am out with my female friends, and I have the money to do so, I tend to pay for their food if we have breakfast/lunch/dinner. I don't do that when dating someone as often, but it is just something that I feel is "right".

I naturally tend to favor the underdog, but I'm not likely to define the underdog until I've done a lot of research in any given situation. Abusive women is a good example of why cultural assumptions shouldn't be applied. I don't favor either sex, because I've seen too many instances of highly privileged women living in vapid private worlds where they did nothing but moan with their friends as they made small fortunes on alimony and spent too many fortunes on designer clothes. (Flip side: there are quite a few women who are abused by monsters, and others who are simply great nurturers. Stereotypes are invidious.) So I hold off making judgments, and look to see how things fall out.

[Chimaera182]

I would definitely defend myself from a woman. I'm not exactly Strongman, so it's not like some big strong bully beating a helpless person. Besides, I was raised to see genders similarly. I don't condone spousal abuse, but in the art of defense, you can be black, white, gay, straight, Jew, Gentile, man or woman, but if you attack me, you get equally dealt with.

[TonyMontana1638]

Hells no, what excuse am I then to give when my friends are all over me for getting beat up by a girl?

[fable]

[QUOTE=TonyMontana1638]Hells no, what excuse am I then to give when my friends are all over me for getting beat up by a girl? [/QUOTE]

So you're saying they're the kind of friends that wouldn't be able to tell the difference between an attack launched by you on someone defenseless, and an attack against you launched by someone with a weapon or strong fighting skills?

[TonyMontana1638]

[QUOTE=fable]So you're saying they're the kind of friends that wouldn't be able to tell the difference between an attack launched by you on someone defenseless, and an attack against you launched by someone with a weapon or strong fighting skills?[/QUOTE]
Nope, they'd never get past the gender part. *shrug*

... And how did me attacking some poor, defenseless soul come up? '

... And I meant that post mostly in jest if that wasn't, erm, picked up on.

[fable]

I read what you wrote originally as you beating up her, not the other way around. As you have it,

"Hells no, what excuse am I then to give when my friends are all over me for getting beat up by a girl?"

...I'm at a loss to understand how it belongs in this thread, which assumes you're being attacked in any case. So you either stand there and do nothing, or at least try to defend yourself.

[TonyMontana1638]

[QUOTE=fable]I read what you wrote originally as you beating up her, not the other way around. As you have it,

"Hells no, what excuse am I then to give when my friends are all over me for getting beat up by a girl?"

...I'm at a loss to understand how it belongs in this thread, which assumes you're being attacked in any case. So you either stand there and do nothing, or at least try to defend yourself.[/QUOTE]
Wait, what? I only meant it jokingly that if for whatever reason I were to get in a fight with a girl that I may not hit back because if I were and to still get my ass kicked, that'd be ultra embarrasing. My stance on not hitting a woman then would suffice as an excuse for my ineptitude. I suppose I'd stand there, at least that's what I joked about doing. I never mentioned that I was the one to be doing the attacking because this thread is about being attacked, as you said, so why would I imply otherwise? I'm not seeing where I did so, but I'm sorry if I was misleading.

... And as I said again that post was meant mostly in jest.

[fable]

Wait, what? I only meant it jokingly that if for whatever reason I were to get in a fight with a girl that I may not hit back because if I were and to still get my ass kicked, that'd be ultra embarrasing.

I see. So standing there allowing yourself to be beaten up would be less embarassing than trying to defend yourself, however poorly you succeed?

... And as I said again that post was meant mostly in jest.

Missed that. If you'll read the thread, which is a completely serious one, you'll find out why.

[TonyMontana1638]

[QUOTE=fable]Wait, what? I only meant it jokingly that if for whatever reason I were to get in a fight with a girl that I may not hit back because if I were and to still get my ass kicked, that'd be ultra embarrasing.

I see. So standing there allowing yourself to be beaten up would be less embarassing than trying to defend yourself, however poorly you succeed?

... And as I said again that post was meant mostly in jest.

Missed that. If you'll read the thread, which is a completely serious one, you'll find out why.[/QUOTE]
Yes, hence the miniscule amounts of humor implied, possibly by that little winking smilie face there.

Oh for Christ's sake, I'm terribly sorry if I popped a joke that was horribly misconstrued in a thread that has otherwise been mostly serious up to this point. I don't feel all that bad because I'm hardly the first to have done so before and it clearly was not meant to be offensive in any way shape or form. If anybody was offended then you have my sincerest regrets, but I'd implore you to just ignore what I said and know that my vote was for 'No'.

[fable]

[QUOTE=TonyMontana1638]Yes, hence the miniscule amounts of humor implied, possibly by that little winking smilie face there.

Oh for Christ's sake, I'm terribly sorry if I popped a joke that was horribly misconstrued in a thread that has otherwise been mostly serious up to this point. I don't feel all that bad because I'm hardly the first to have done so before and it clearly was not meant to be offensive in any way shape or form. If anybody was offended then you have my sincerest regrets, but I'd implore you to just ignore what I said and know that my vote was for 'No'.[/QUOTE]

I suspect that's why we ask people to read threads, before replying to them. You think? You never know who you'll be offending; but no harm done. At first I figured it was an attempt at humor, because of the wink, but then realized the humor didn't make any sense. As I'm high nobility (if not the king) of non sequitur, off the wall humor, I figured if I couldn't make it parse, maybe it really wasn't intended as humor.

In any case, since you did vote, and voted "no," I'm curious why you did so, Tony. Serious answer (well, mostly), please. Or did you really mean that you think your friends would view you worse for defending yourself against any serious attack, regardless of the sex of the attacker? What would they think if a sixth dan in some martial arts started wailing away on you? That you were more noble to lie there and act the role of a demolition commercial dummy?

[TonyMontana1638]

[QUOTE=fable]I suspect that's why we ask people to read threads, before replying to them. You think? You never know who you'll be offending; but no harm done. At first I figured it was an attempt at humor, because of the wink, but then realized the humor didn't make any sense. As I'm high nobility (if not the king) of non sequitur, off the wall humor, I figured if I couldn't make it parse, maybe it really wasn't intended as humor.

In any case, since you did vote, and voted "no," I'm curious why you did so, Tony. Serious answer (well, mostly), please. [/QUOTE]
Well I did frankly, every post minus some of the longer ones (a habit of mine, sorry )... And I still don't think the humor was too hard to understand, but that's hardly a defense since I was the one who wrote it. In any case I'm sorry if the humor was misplaced but moreso that it was obviously confusing.

I suppose I answered "No" in all seriousness because I don't know if I could ever bring myself to hurt a woman unless she truly meant somebody harm who didn't deserve it, at least in my knowledge. I say it like that because I'd assume I probably did something to deserve being beaten with a pitching wedge, and probably wouldn't fight back except to try and get that golf club out of her hands without the intention of hurting her. If not and this was something I did nothing to deserve... I don't know what I'd do. Still get her under control somehow, maybe a bit more roughly I suppose, but... Meh, the thought of hitting women at all just bugs me. I don't even like hitting men and can't see myself doing that except in self-defense (I'm much too non-confrontational) for that matter. The only fights I've ever gotten in have been in defense and I plan on keeping it that way, violence is not somehting I was made for.

Edit: This was from my post above and pretty much explains what I jokingly meant.
I only meant it jokingly that if for whatever reason I were to get in a fight with a girl that I may not hit back because if I were and to still get my ass kicked, that'd be ultra embarrasing. My stance on not hitting a woman then would suffice as an excuse for my ineptitude. I suppose I'd stand there, at least that's what I joked about doing.
Here's an exchange for example (pardon the corniness):
"Dude I heard you got whupped by a girl... What's all that about?"
"Yeah, she stronger than you? Can't take a chick's punch?"
"Well, erm, guys she was a girl... I couldn't hit back really."
"Hahahaha, whatever dude."

[fable]

I say it like that because I'd assume I probably did something to deserve being beaten with a pitching wedge,

It would appear that most of us are taking this as simply a serious physical attack by someone of the opposite sex, but we've had one forum member who interpreted defense as physical aggression, and now this. I'm not attacking your seeing the question this way; I suspect it was deliberately framed in as vague a fashion as possible. But I find it interesting. I don't want to put you in a position of having to explain everything, but it's curious that you see yourself as deserving a physical attack, for whatever reason. I know that physical restraint is sometimes necessary, and of course violence is required under some conditions--armed robbery, etc. But to assume you're guilty of something, and that the only way to resolve this is to be physically attacked, strikes me as unusual. And I don't mean that in any nasty sense, either.

[Rookierookie]

I would most certainly hit back, and won't even bother with moderation.

[Aztaroth]

Wow, am I the first passive type to reply here? I haven't voted yet, I need some time to think about it... but I am generally a very non-violent person, partly because of my weak body I have a grand total of once hit someone in anger... I don't regret it, that bastard deserved it, but my hand was sore for weeks I can still remember his face clearly, though... he was a bully at school, and he knew I'm not violent... needless to say, he was VERY shocked.

I'd write more, but I've gotta go