Less used kits

Tain · Post by **Tain** » Sun Jan 14, 2001 3:10 am

I dislike the idea of the Robinhood, it makes me think of NAlia! :-(

Well, back on topic. Anyone use the Skald? Not a strong fighter type of course, but he's a good mix of bard n fighter.

And for the mage type...i don't see many diviners. I think most of the specialists are abjurers, conjurers or illusionists.

Osiris · Post by **Osiris** » Sun Jan 14, 2001 4:39 am

I've got a skald in my current party - quite useful.

Don't forget necromancers - I found these the most useful of the mage types.

Edwin · Post by **Edwin** » Sun Jan 14, 2001 6:16 am

I used a skald one time, but when you reach lvl 15 (?) your song is so powerful (-4 AC; +4 bonus) that if you have korgan and valigar + viconia with something to pump up her strenght you have no match with no one

Ron · Post by **Ron** » Mon Jan 15, 2001 12:00 am

Well 3rd edition thiefs are Rouges

------------------
Just a couple &cent from Ron!
[url="http://www.geocities.com/thesmh/"]Shadows of the Midnight Hour[/url]
My Ultima Online Guild Page

Black Hand · Post by **Black Hand** » Mon Jan 15, 2001 4:08 am

Many thieves are archetypical adventurers. They just know how to disarm traps and open locks, and the like. Some thief kits like the Swashbuckler may even have a code of honor.

And even a 'real' thief would most likely not introduce himself as "Hi my name is Jack, I'm a thief". So if the thief is sneaky enough the Paladin won't even realize that he's travelling with a cutpurse.

Rail · Post by **Rail** » Mon Jan 15, 2001 4:27 am

Thank you, Black Hand. You are correct, sir. A "thief" is one skilled in the art of deception, stealth, and subterfuge. A paladin may employ a thief to climb the walls of an evil knight's castle and find a way to lower the gate. How is this inherently evil? Thieves make the best scouts, as well as some of the ranger kits. Thieves *can* have ethics, and use their abilities for something other than stealing (whether to give to the rich or to thyself).

Besides, I find it ironic someone would balk at a paladin traveling with a thief, but most wouldn't think twice about a paladin plundering the beseiged elven city of gold and magic items. Those items rightfully should belong to the elves, shouldn't they. Or do paladins now include "finders keepers" in their code of ethics.

Lich_Lord · Post by **Lich_Lord** » Mon Jan 15, 2001 10:15 am

The beastmaster is a totally useless to all mankind kit. just the name strikes me as being some sort of whimpy barbarian type character but is a ranger. his statistics are worse...
can summon natural animals- who vcares about weak animals. I guess bears are ok
cannot use metal weaopns-well there you go the big flop of this kit. Imagine going around in a wooden club fighting Lich, Drow, Dragons and demons Good luck for whoever uses it because I shaw ain't going to use it :MAD:

------------------
" I can dance on a head of a pin as well!"

Saumerez · Post by **Saumerez** » Mon Jan 15, 2001 10:34 am

I am playing my way through as a Skald right now (my first time through). I think it was an excellent choice from what I have seen so far.

Anyone more knowledgeable have any opinions on this kit?

Gruntboy · Post by **Gruntboy** » Mon Jan 15, 2001 10:35 am

Beastmaster would be a cr*ppy kit to solo with - worse that the wizard slayer?!

Saumerez - what is it that is good about the skald? I have yet to try that kit.

Black Hand · Post by **Black Hand** » Mon Jan 15, 2001 10:42 am

The Skalds song is awfully powerful.
+4 to damage and to-hit, -2 AC, and immunity to confusion and charm for the whole party.

No spell has such an awesome effect, and you can use it unlimited times!

Lich_Lord · Post by **Lich_Lord** » Mon Jan 15, 2001 10:48 am

Yeah worst kit ever Beastmaster

------------------
" I can dance on a head of a pin as well!"

Saumerez · Post by **Saumerez** » Mon Jan 15, 2001 12:45 pm

Grunt, I am no expert so don't expect much but what I like about the Skald:

1. A bit obvious but Bard's in general add a great deal of versatility and he is a Bard.

2. +1 to hit, +1 Damage with any weapon. Since bards can not specialize this is huge. He is effectively specialized in any weapon he would normally be proficient in right? Same modifiers anyway.

3. His song is the best by far IMO.

At 1st level: +2 to hit, +2 damage, -2 to AC

At 15th level: +4 to hit, +4 damage, -4 to AC, Immunity to Fear.

At 20th level: +4to hit, +4 damage, -4 to AC, and Immunity to Fear, Stun, and Confusion.

I have had a lot of fun with him so far. Looking forward to level 15

Curdis · Post by **Curdis** » Mon Jan 15, 2001 5:56 pm

TRANSMUTER!

Opposition school is abduration so you can't disable any opposing mage's protections...Try that solo. - Curdis

Rail · Post by **Rail** » Mon Jan 15, 2001 9:46 pm

Ouch, curdis, never thought of transmuters problems. That would suck.

On beastmasters, I have one dual-classed to a cleric. Dual wields club Gnasher +2 and club Blackblood +3. He pounds pretty well. Weapons are okay, but he can't seem to wear any metal armor, either.

I put him in the shadow dragon scale, however, and his AC is -8. Pretty cool character. Add cleric spells and he rocks. I'd take that kit even with the armor restrictions over the wizard slayer, IMO.

Madison the Gray · Post by **Madison the Gray** » Mon Jan 15, 2001 10:30 pm

In my first game I went with the Undead Hunter, figuring I might need a lot of firepower until I get the feel of the game. This time through I decided to try a more challenging and "unimpressive" character so I am playing with a female Halfling Swashbuckler (C-G). So far she is hanging in there really well, especially with the great thief skills. The biggest downside I have found so far is that backstab damage does not multiply, but that is offset by the racial and class bonuses to thieving skills.

As far as the "good" thief thing goes, I also wondered whether a thief could be good. To sort of compromise, I have only performed outright theft against evil aligned characters or institutions. If the mark is evil then my chaotic nature says they are fair game. I also do not wantonly kill, unless confronted with a situation that forces me into it. I have even left enemies alive after I got what I wanted from them.

------------------
Go for the Eyes! - Minsc

geh4th · Post by **geh4th** » Tue Jan 16, 2001 1:02 am

A spin-off on this "good thief" discussion: I think it is a better question to ask why any paladin would or could tolerate being in the same party as Korgan, Viconia or Edwin. These NPC are obviously evil (and not just from alignment, their actios support it...) and IMHO no Paladin would even CONSIDER allowing them to join. Note that NONE of the thieves in the game are actually "evil" (NG, CG, TN, CN.)

And yet I have read numerous posts about "what's your party" that have happy mixes of Paladins (PC's and Keldorn) with these evil NPC's. I know Keldorn does not get along with these evil NPC's, and may come to blows with them, but you can easily control the situation by manipulating your reputation. Not very realistic....IMO a Paladin would ALWAYS strive to have the highest reputation possible, even an NPC like Keldorn.

Finally, afaik, if you have a PC Paladin, the evil NPC's are no problem at all unless your reputation "angers" them (I'm leaving the swearing to the "dumbest poll" thread....)

BTW, this thread finally gave my my signature line, thanks guys.....

------------------
"If you prefer, you could say EXPERT treasure hunter!"
--Gandalf the Grey, the Hobbit

Rail · Post by **Rail** » Tue Jan 16, 2001 1:36 am

I mentioned the same thing in the "Paly stronghold..." thread. Kinda makes me laugh. A paladin strolling happily side by side with Korgan, romancing Viconia, cats and dogs living together...

geh4th · Post by **geh4th** » Tue Jan 16, 2001 1:40 am

I completely forgot the possibility that a paladin could romance Viconia. To quote from a certain movie:

"In-con-THIEVE-a-ble!!!!"

------------------
"If you prefer, you could say EXPERT treasure hunter!"
--Gandalf the Grey, the Hobbit

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Tue Jan 16, 2001 1:45 am

To bad they didn't put a Anti-Paladin in the game.

------------------
'Weasel the Most Holy of the Holy Cavaliers'.

Rail · Post by **Rail** » Tue Jan 16, 2001 1:48 am

They did! They just chose to limit it to enemies you encounter.
Too bad they didn't put a lot of classes in. You have to admit, though, it's a big step up from the classes available in BG1 or IWD. They're moving the right direction.