GameBanshee Forums

Don't underestimate the dwarf bonus. +5 saves is 25 percent less chance to get held, charmed or outright killed.

Jordoo wrote:Once created you have already maxed out in experiance. I am talking about from start to finish. Your character doesn't just appear a dualed level 7 fighter level 8 theif. The character has to get there and its harder earlier on without spells, once you are at full power like I said good character.

Like I said twice earlier, this character is not meant to be easy to create... it is meant to be good at the end.

Jordoo wrote:Still not perfect. None of them are.

Well, that is true. No one character has every single bonus that all other characters have... they all have weaknesses. I think this build hides it's weaknesses well (by having awesome offensive capabilities), though.

Jordoo wrote:Cleric/ranger can do everything your character can due except backstab. Plus has access to all druid and cleric spells. Can summon an army of skelotons and pre buff as well as cast something as simple as doom whick makes a huge differance. Might not deal out as much damage with each hit but does plenty and has spells. Also would you get a strength modifier to damage with slings. Plus your racial enemy bonus. Yet this character is not perfect.

Yes, I agree, Cleric/ranger is a very good build. You loose some hp, 2 ac, 3 thac0, and 3 dmg bonuses, but are able to trade theif skills for cleric/druid spells. It's actually a very nice build.

kmonster wrote:Don't underestimate the dwarf bonus. +5 saves is 25 percent less chance to get held, charmed or outright killed.

Yea. I didn't realize the dwarf bonus was so much. Dwarf is definiatly better at killing groups of two or more mages.



Hm. I guess a Human Fighter/Theif is only best at two things -- dealing damage quickly and surviving physical damage attacks. With so much damage, it is able to *hide* it's weaknesses.

Hoe exactly does a cleric/ranger have worse armor class than a dualed fighter thief. Its the same given the same Dexterity. Both lose certain abilities with heavy armor but both can wear any armor and use any sheild or Ac bonus Item. Less Thaco 3? should be only onewith the same strength. Then you would get and extra from the defender sword which is +3 to hit and the best cleric weapon would be +2 to hit. Thats still only 2 difference and one to base.

Plus if you play TUTU cleric?ranger getts an automatick two in two weapon style. Add a third still have 5 prof. left can still specialize in two weapons (mace,hammer both have +2 available and staff mace is 2D4+2 damage +2 thaco.) Dual wealding would do as much if not more damage per round than your character who would have to waste three prof to dual weild. Still your backstab would be formadable so overall asuming you hit with first attack as a backstab you would dod more damage but not as much as it appears.

Jordoo wrote:Hoe exactly does a cleric/ranger have worse armor class than a dualed fighter thief. Its the same given the same Dexterity. Both lose certain abilities with heavy armor but both can wear any armor and use any sheild or Ac bonus Item. Less Thaco 3? should be only onewith the same strength. Then you would get and extra from the defender sword which is +3 to hit and the best cleric weapon would be +2 to hit. Thats still only 2 difference and one to base.

Not being able to use long sword means that you can not use the Defender (+2 AC, +3 enchantment), and the best one handed item you can use is a +2 weapon (no AC mod, +2 enchantment). The difference is 1 thac0/dmg and 2 AC. Also, multi-classed characters that include a type of fighter are restricted to a maximum of ** proficicy, which means you loose 2 thac0/dmg. The total is 2 AC, 3 thac0, and 3 dmg.

Jordoo wrote:Plus if you play TUTU cleric?ranger [...]

Obviously if you change the rules, the strategies will change.

Can't imagine sitting through BGI without tutu to speed it up. But thats off topic.

Ok I see where you are getting you AC now. But cleric ranger can cast protection from evil, defensive harmony, bless, chant and aid, to name a few basically giving it better AC and saves as well as thaco. Also if you have your bow equiped you cannot use a shield. Where as a single weapon wielding Cleric/ranger would even with the sling in one of the weapon slots. +2 large sheild is a -3 to AC. Its a hard arguement for you to make that your build could protect itself better than a cleric/ranger (who can also hid in shadows) because its not true plane and simple.

I was counting on your extra proficiency as what would give you a better base thaco. I would argue Power Of Holy Might to increase my strength and bonus to hit and damage but obviously your character has to be good to use the defender and would have that as an inate ability so thats a wash. So your build truely would dish out more damage than a cleric/ranger that much is clear. But there is always command, hold person, entangle, silence as well as many others that offset this differance.

Moving from **-*** only lowers your thaco by one. You get +1 to hit with ** and then it goes to plus +2 to hit with ***. That is a net of 2 lower on you thaco not 3. And only one to base like I said before.

Jordoo wrote:Moving from **-*** only lowers your thaco by one. You get +1 to hit with ** and then it goes to plus +2 to hit with ***. That is a net of 2 lower on you thaco not 3. And only one to base like I said before.

No, not in BG1. You are thinking of BG2 rules.

Read page 93 in your BG1 manual if you don't beleive me.

Your right I looked it up. I have honestlynot played BGI in years, I play tutu and then carry the player through to BGII.

I still prefer some sort of multi or dualed spell caster as a better all around character. It has been fun discussing with you without getting nasty and I certainly have relized how much difference there is between BGI and TUTU. But I AM STILL NEVER GOING BACK. LOL. I may just build your power character if I have the time certainly enjoyed my multi fighter/theif. Its just that this character would not be carried over to BGII since if that were the case You would want to go in the opposite direction. Like Level ten theif then dualed to fighter to continue to grow more powerful. Hmmm now thats a thought.

Jordoo wrote:Your right I looked it up. I have honestlynot played BGI in years, I play tutu and then carry the player through to BGII.

I still prefer some sort of multi or dualed spell caster as a better all around character. It has been fun discussing with you without getting nasty and I certainly have relized how much difference there is between BGI and TUTU. But I AM STILL NEVER GOING BACK. LOL. I may just build your power character if I have the time certainly enjoyed my multi fighter/theif. Its just that this character would not be carried over to BGII since if that were the case You would want to go in the opposite direction. Like Level ten theif then dualed to fighter to continue to grow more powerful. Hmmm now thats a thought.

Assuming TUTU doesn't change BG2, I would reccomend being a pure Fighter in BG1 (make sure you are neutral good or lower so you can be a thief) and dual classing to a Kensai/Thief (lvl 24/28) in BG2. It has the most proficiencies possible in the game -- 21. You can get *** in two weapon style and 9 other skills to **. The +8 dmg/thac0 you get from being a kensai is "free" once you finish dual classing to theif because you can get Use Any Item, which removes the Kensai's restrictions. A Kensai is very easy to level with a mage in the group. Since the Kensai has no armor, he receives full benefit from Spirit Armor; cast it on him after every rest. Also use Improved Haste before dificult battles. Not only is the Kensai good in BG2, but leveling a pure Fighter in BG1 is good, too.

Kensia is not a bad idea but would certainly be a theif first in BGI collect all the tomes and beet the game and start BGII. Then continue as a theif untill I had all the skill points that I wanted . Then Dual to fighter because I would rather continue to develop the warrior aspect of the character than the theif.
Especially if we are going for overall power.

you have something against hit points?

BTW, Kensais arelly aren't thAt good. I'll take a Berserker myself.