To be or not to be

[DesR85]

As bad as this may sound, I don't think Lionhead should put a safeguard in the house or on the wife. The game does not really suggesting to go and abuse someone (however it was a very good point about divorcing your wife and killing her). It's more of what the players want. No one is telling us to go and abuse people, it's just the way the people behind the characters play. My evil character has three wives and isn't the perfect example of the male role model while one of my other characters never had a wife and never had sex and is a good person all the way though.

True. Same can be said about Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. You have the right not to get the Hot Coffee mod but still, concerned parties sued Rockstar for the pornographic content it contained. Take-Two was forced to retract all copies of that game from store shelves and have to release another version of GTA: San Andreas with the pornographic content removed. Since then, the ESRB have been very jittery after the incident. Oblivion was re-rated M as a result of this. I don't want something like this to happen to Lionhead and I really do hope that Lionhead will address this issue in the near future.

Come to think of it, the more open-ended a game is, the more controversy it creates at times, so, in my opinion, some things are not meant to be implemented.

The problem with Fable is that if you get a divorce you get 1500 evil points but if you kill your wife instead, you get just only 15 evil points. Very odd morality mechanic at work there and G4TV's X-Play did mention it when they reviewed that game.

That is indeed peculiar....
You'd think it would be the other way round. For that matter, why get evil points at all if you get a divorce?
Good God... we aren't living in the 1950s anymore.. (thankfully)

This is the first time I heard that divorce will net you evil points. I hope that this won't happen in Fable 2 and as for the wife/husband killing or abuse, I think giving more evil points like 1000+ would be much more logical seeing that it is a very evil action.

[Lady Dragonfly]

This is the first time I heard that divorce will net you evil points. I hope that this won't happen in Fable 2 and as for the wife/husband killing or abuse, I think giving more evil points like 1000+ would be much more logical seeing that it is a very evil action.

What if you are evil anyway and this +1000 shift towards evil alignment is welcome or at least does not matter?

And regardless of points, do you really think that the possibility of the wife/children killing/abuse is a good idea?

(And yes, divorce does net you evil points).

[DesR85]

What if you are evil anyway and this +1000 shift towards evil alignment is welcome or at least does not matter?

That, I'm not sure. I'm only offering a suggestion, which, I'm not sure if it is suitable or not. As I stated previously, the more open-ended games become, the more controversial they get, in my opinion. Sometimes, not everything can be implemented in the game.

And regardless of points, do you really think that the possibility of the wife/children killing/abuse is a good idea?

Personally, I don't think it is a good idea but at the same time, I am unsure as to how Lionhead will be able to deal with this issue. By the way, I think we should get back on track and drop this matter altogether. Don't want a flame war to ignite here.

[Lady Dragonfly]

Personally, I don't think it is a good idea but at the same time, I am unsure as to how Lionhead will be able to deal with this issue. By the way, I think we should get back on track and drop this matter altogether. Don't want a flame war to ignite here.

Never fear, I don't really breathe fire. :laugh:

[Crenshinibon]

I have never played any of the GTA games so I don't really know much about them, however, I am more than sure that Lionhead knows of what has happened and the potential scenarios if they aren't careful. Also, from what I've seen while playing Fable, a divorce is equal to a mini holocaust.

From a divorce I got 680 evil points.

From killing aguard I got 10 evil points.

From killing a trader I got 2 evil points.

I really do hope that they rate each crime more accurately.

Then again, we don't really know as to what system they will use.

[DarkOmen14]

I love Fable and gta and I completely agree I don't want to see lionhead go through the same thing and who knows they may make it so you can't hit or kill your wives and kids.

[Mandalorianx]

I love Fable and gta and I completely agree I don't want to see lionhead go through the same thing and who knows they may make it so you can't hit or kill your wives and kids.

no killing of your own wife....baahhh no fun then

[matthewd]

the featured option of hitting young kids was awsome... when u first enter bowerston on fable TLC there is a young girl screaming "Hero Hero" and even when just started there is a boy convincing u to smash the barrels... U can bash once to shut him up, Twice to scare him away....
It was a nice suprise and somewhat funny...

Anyhow, Having a pragnant wife and a kid a family... ( talking about ingame perspective ) And actually being able to hit them or abuse them is not funny at all.... It is still a game but open up the pretty green eyes and look around, How many family's fell to pieces becouse of it in the real world... The fun stops somewhere... Eventhoug u might not think so, Becouse u dont feel it, there are people actually inspired by games and television for doing what they do...... Think about it

[DarkOmen14]

I have, but most of those people have some mental illness small big what have you.So it's not really the games fault I mean it has ratings and tells you whats in the games.

[DesR85]

I have, but most of those people have some mental illness small big what have you.So it's not really the games fault I mean it has ratings and tells you whats in the games.

I agree. I've been reading a lot of articles about videogame violence and from what I can tell, most of them always point to the mental state of the person or even past criminal records of that individual. Not only that but bad family background also contributed to drive these individuals to commit acts seen in videogames or even the movies. Yet, there are people like Jack Thompson (Florida-based lawyer) who sue game developers and publishers just because some troubled individual was influenced by a videogame to commit a crime. That is absurd. I have no idea why they never considered the background of the individual before jumping to conclusions.

[matthewd]

I have, but most of those people have some mental illness small big what have you.So it's not really the games fault I mean it has ratings and tells you whats in the games.

I get ur point... think about it, Then we where all mental ill Once..
I have a little brother that is about 9 years old, He adors the power rangers and plays nothing else.
He goes around the garden screaming that he is summoning the Red lion from PR Wild force... People do get influence and its a real fact... It is not only a fable, So little children is a weak exsample But i hope u get the point..

I have no idea why they never considered the background of the individual before jumping to conclusions.

As i mentioned Above... Why do u think the Need for speed games always use introduction like in NFS Underground 2:

Hello My name is rachel teller and i play *** in nfs underground two
When it comes to racing make sure U only doing it on the streets of underground 2, In real drive safley and responsible and wear ur seatbelt

Why do u think that is... ?? And even so, Having a game featuring the abuse of children, pregnant wifes and family is a lack of respect to me, Keep it real in there... There are many people experiencing the same thing in real life.... I have bin there

[DesR85]

As i mentioned Above... Why do u think the Need for speed games always use introduction like in NFS Underground 2:

Hello My name is rachel teller and i play *** in nfs underground two
When it comes to racing make sure U only doing it on the streets of underground 2, In real drive safley and responsible and wear ur seatbelt

Why do u think that is... ??

I've seen this also in Need for Speed: Most Wanted too. Not spoken but written at the beginning of the game (If I recall correctly). And yes, I fully understand why the developer wrote that. It is a warning to players not to imitate what was shown in the game. Those driving techniques so dangerous that only a trained professional can pull off. You will only get yourself into serious trouble and even get killed trying to perform the stunts shown in these types of games.

And even so, Having a game featuring the abuse of children, pregnant wifes and family is a lack of respect to me, Keep it real in there... There are many people experiencing the same thing in real life.... I have bin there

I am being realistic here. I also don't like games that feature violence against children, pregnant women and families. And by the way, the individuals I mentioned in my previous post are those that commit crimes because of being influenced by a videogame. Either it is because they cannot differentiate between reality and fantasy or they knew what they were doing was wrong but still decided to do it anyway. Those people really need counseling even though they're guilty of commiting the crime. Bashing the developer or/and the publisher is, to me, pointing fingers at another party not involved in the crime.

To put it this way, how do you feel if you're blamed for a crime you did not commit? For example, Guy A lends Guy B a hammer, thinking that he is going to use it to do some woodwork. Instead, Guy B murdered someone with Guy A's hammer and was caught. Instead of suing Guy B for the murder, they (victim's party) sued Guy A instead. How does he feel?

I wish people will take responsibility for their actions. But no. Instead, they did the opposite. Pass the blame unto others. From what I've been reading in a lot of the articles, it's exactly that. They go around suing game developers and publishers instead of the guilty person. Why? Games don't make people violent. It's the people themselves that do.

Now, I've also gone through some similar experiences like imitating a videogame character's action when I was young and was laughed at for doing so. I managed to shake off that habit eventually. In addition, I did not go up till a point where I am tempted to do a horrible act upon someone I really hate. I used to have those kinds of feelings before (nowadays, I still do but I can overcome it due to past experiences), I admit, but I always try to reason with myself as to why it's impossible to do so. It's hard, yes, but I persevered.

[matthewd]

I've seen this also in Need for Speed: Most Wanted too. Not spoken but .......to perform the stunts shown in these types of games.
So they came to the cunclusion that poeple also treid to immetate that what they saw on Game or TV.
Anyhow this is still a fact where race games go out on preventing it from happening, Other games Ignore the fact that people are still independable beings ( And On NFS:MW it was josie marron That pronounced it at the beginning of the game )

I am being realistic here. I also don't like games that feature violence against children, pregnant ....... of commiting the crime. Bashing the developer or/and the publisher is, to me, pointing fingers at another party not involved in the crime.
I agree with u that a sick mind need counceling But still... Also a healthy mind immetate's... So why would u immetate a cooking program that shows how to finish a meal.... And not do the same thing with a Movie that supports Gang fights and all these things
For Exsmaple: A guy sees a bodybuilder on TV and dicedes to go to a GYM to get the same look, What is the diffrence in this time.... ( Also The Callumbine Tragic is a great exsample for it)...

To put it this way, how do you feel if you're blamed for a crime you did not commit? For.........suing Guy B for the murder, they (victim's party) sued Guy A instead. How does he feel?
Then He would probebly feel swindled, But it was naiv giving a man a hammer U know or dont know, anyway i get ur point , But for a game developer it is not entirly shure wich kind of people or going to Play the game... And here in holland... the age rating Doesnt mean JACK.

I wish people will take responsibility for their actions. But no. Instead, they did the opposite. Pass .......... person. Why? Games don't make people violent. It's the people themselves that do.
It is entirely treu, People never take responsability.. The always give the Blame away... And still What ever happens is not the foult of the gamemaker, But the player himself.
But in this time, In this world, Procusion is recuired..

Now, I've also gone through some similar experiences like imitating a videogame character's..........it due to past experiences), I admit, but I always try to reason with myself as to why it's impossible to do so. It's hard, yes, but I persevered.
Growing Up is a Great part of loosing ur act of immitating characters on Games or Tv... For so far, I dont Blame anyone except the one that needs to Be blamed, But all we need in this world is respect for one and each other.
What i Ment to say is that people do get influance ( Wicked or not ), But when a man dicides to abuse his family it is his responsibility, But what about the wife and kids.. They Become another victome of the situation

.

[Lady Dragonfly]

I wish people will take responsibility for their actions. But no. Instead, they did the opposite. Pass the blame unto others. From what I've been reading in a lot of the articles, it's exactly that. They go around suing game developers and publishers instead of the guilty person. Why? Games don't make people violent. It's the people themselves that do.

This argument is along the same lines as "guns don't kill, people do", "drink responsibly", "surgeon general warns that smoking is..." and so on.
It is difficult to argue against something so obvious that a person should assume the responsibility for his/her actions. People use ropes and kitchen knives and other common things to commit crimes and nobody would sue the manufacturer. People drink and smoke and hunt and that is fine. Most of us live in a free society.

However, at least here in USA selling a pack of cigarettes or a bottle of beer to a minor is a crime, and you can't purchase a gun legally without a background check. You can't abuse a minor or a spouse without a possible severe outcome as well. Five years ago I knew a guy who punched his pregnant step-daughter because he did not like her boyfriend. That guy is stll in prison as far as I know. This is a safeguard our society employs. The measures are far from perfect, of course.

The current videogame rating (M, R etc.) is another example of a feeble attempt to restrict "adult fun".
The problem as I understand it, and please tell me if I am wrong, is that the game rating is a total crap that begins and ends in the left lower corner of the game box. The laws and regulations are so vague and the popularity of the "game is not a culprit, you are" argument is so high that it makes almost impossible for a game developers to lose a legal battle against a few weirdoes and their attorneys.

The game industry is under constant pressure to outdo their competitors and offer something "extra" and "revolutionary" for reasons beyond the scope of this thread.
Some choose better graphics, some more graphic violence and sex; some make a clone with an "extra" features. Supply and demand thing, I suppose.
Sometimes I feel like a part of the surfeited Roman plebs in the Circus, if you know what I mean.

I don't know what Lionhead will give us to munch on in Fable2 but I can only hope that they will use more discretion in their choices.

[DesR85]

The current videogame rating (M, R etc.) is another example of a feeble attempt to restrict "adult fun".
The problem as I understand it, and please tell me if I am wrong, is that the game rating is a total crap that begins and ends in the left lower corner of the game box. The laws and regulations are so vague and the popularity of the "game is not a culprit, you are" argument is so high that it makes almost impossible for a game developers to lose a legal battle against a few weirdoes and their attorneys.

The game ratings (ESRB, PEGI, or others) are set up in order to make users aware of the content a game contains. It is not a system meant to impose any standard on any game. I agree that they need to be more informative and detailed about the content of a game but getting rid of them is not a good idea. Without it, how can we tell which games are suitable for children and which ones are only for the older audience?

That's where they come in. And you have to be glad that almost all the videogames in stores have an ESRB or any other rating system at the front of the game box. They would be in very big trouble if almost all the games have no ratings on them. An article relating to game ratings systems can be found at FiringSquad ([url="http://www.firingsquad.com/features/esrb_ratings/"]link[/url]). If you want to know more, I advise heading there.

P.S. Let's just drop this discussion, please. Not for my sake but for the sake of everyone here. Thank you.

[mr_sir]

P.S. Let's just drop this discussion, please. Not for my sake but for the sake of everyone here. Thank you.

I agree, this thread was started to discuss the introduction of pregnancy etc. into Fable 2. Discussion about the game rating systems (and their pros and cons) and arguments for and against the link between video games and violence would probably be best in somewhere like [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/speak-your-mind-16/"]Speak Your Mind[/url]

Please can we get this thread back on topic. Thanks

[Lady Dragonfly]

That is the fate of any controversial topic: to sprawl and to branch out and to elicit perhaps a heated argument about morals and evils, real or imaginary.
The idea of "pregnancy" and "children" in a game like Fable is raising many questions and I don't see a problem with people discussing different aspects of the issue. That is why this thread was started.
I absolutely agree with Dragon Wench and matthewd that spouse/children abuse is unacceptable in any shape and form.
Some people disagree. Both points of view are presented in this thread and the tone is respectful, thanks Avo. I wish more people would participate, especially the younger guys who play Fable 24/7.

[DarkOmen14]

I'm one of those guys and I think it would be great to have kids so you have more responsibility for example, you go to the tavern if they have one and get drunk and come home and your kid sees you that way and possibly grows up to be a drunk.So you'd have to be careful the way you act around them.

[mr_sir]

That is the fate of any controversial topic: to sprawl and to branch out and to elicit perhaps a heated argument about morals and evils, real or imaginary.
The idea of "pregnancy" and "children" in a game like Fable is raising many questions and I don't see a problem with people discussing different aspects of the issue. That is why this thread was started.

I have no problem with this thread discussing that. But this is not the place to discuss the validity of the game rating system and any possible connection between violence/crime and video games in general, which is the direction in which this thread was heading. Discussion about the above in relation to the threads topic is not a problem, but if you just want to discuss ways in which the game rating system should changed or how lawyers are taking legal action against game developers these days then this is not the place.

Edit: This is also not the place to discuss this. If anyone has issues with a moderating decision made by myself then take it to PMs.

[matthewd]

Anyway to go back to the root of the topic,
After doing some thinking.. Having children is having fun, As we already talked about the abusing part we know how we feel about it, However for the choice of a heroine or a hero and the childeren feature.
People should stay and remain on same level, also a heroine should have childeren.... But fighthing balverines with a pregnant belly is something unlogical and strange to get used to