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I don't care what Cernd can do, he has to be the most boring character in the game. The way his voice just drones on.....and on.......and on...........

Imagine if the Avatar from the unseeing eye quest had been an NPC, dear God! I'd dread every interaction.

Soooooooooooooo Jaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhheeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrriiiiiiaaaaaaaaaaaa IIIIIIIIIIIIIII heeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrr.......

and so on.

Mumbling Ranger boy isn't much better I might add

@ UserUnfriendly: I agree. Not only does Cernd abandon his wife and child, he does it twice (if you've ever finished the game with him). Now, for all of his Wisdom, you'd think he wouldn't pull the same stupid crap twice, but he did. And after the second time, he ends up having to kill his son (also getting killed himself). What a moron!

Well I think if you don't want to take Cernd just because you have never played with him than the choice really depends on your party. If your party is top heavy with warriors, you know your PC is a warriors type (A paladin, ranger, fighter or even a monk backed by people like Keldorn, Mazzy and maybe Minsc or Valyger) than I think Cernd might be a better choice. But if you have a lot of spell casters than maybe Jahiera might be a better choice. But to keep Jahiera for harper call is pointless. I say that if you have atleast one mage in the party you should consider buying or getting a rod of resurrection. Fully charged they have ten charges, its faster than a spell and so you can cast it in the middle of a battle with minimal delay to bring back you fallen warrior or two and they are ready to rejoin the fight after they pick up there weapons. I mean I know you can't put on armour during battle but if you have good shields and bracers even without your armour ac can go really down. Plus lets not forget that a rod would free up spell slots for other spells and you don't have to heal the people like you have to after raise dead or harper call (you also have to heal Jahiera after harper call). In short ROD OF RESURRECTION RULES. That's my two cents.

In every one of my five parties, I've always had a rod of resurrection. You never can be too sure that your priest or Harper isn't going to die first. The rod is really worth it.

Just to clear up a few misconceptions-
Minsc, Like all rangers gets spells at high levels. His Low wisdom should mean a good degree of casting failure, but it apparently wasn't programmed in.
Cernd can apparently wear the shadow dragon armour, although there is no reason why he should. Same sort of thing that lets certain monks wear Keldorns armour.
Jaheira gets immunity to poison and resistance to elemental damage at level 14, like any druid. The problem here is that it doesn't occur in a full party until the last stages of ToB.
One would take Cernd to have access to high level Druidic abilities faster, as Cernd will hit lvl 14 Druid at the beginning of ToB, while Jaheira won't usually until the end.
I intend to include Cernd in my party of the least popular characters, with Nalia, Haer Dalis', Mazzy, and Valygar.

You guys are actually missing the point of rod of ressurection. Its not really for raising chars, its an emergency quick heal! Sat a fighter or a mage is taking massive hits, use the rod and get all its hits back immediately. Far better to keep chars alive than to raise them. I have my clerics load up on as many as I can, and when soemone is about to bite it use that. works as fast as a wand, and potions can still take too long. you need to get that chars hit points up to max now. That is why I like mass raise dead, never had to use it yet, but it should work like mass cure. greater restoration, with Tob installed, soes the same thing, a combat "oh crap, everyone is dying" emergency heal for everyone.

Sorry about the off topic. another reason to keep jaheira, besides the fact Cernd is a total loser.

Greater whrilwind. That and spear of impaling, later spectral brand, is what makes jahiera so cool. also, greater elemental transform is a special ability, not uing up her precious spell slots. Transform to a greater fire elemental, and involk greater whirlwind. this is in my opinion better than the werewolf form. now if there was fighter shapeshifter, that would rock!

Greater werewolf with greater whirlwind would be a killer combo. Jahira can also cast 4 armor of faith, with 100% protect from slashing, piercing, magical fier, magic damage and blunt, then cast greater whirlwind to attack a target with the best fighter ability and total immunity to the target attacks.

Well, I WOULD really like to say Cernd.. but I think Jaheira.. I mean, Cernd is good and all, and it would be a NICE and tough challenge to keep him around.. but I mean, for beginners, take Jaheira as the Druid. She's got quite a lot of spells.. so yeah.

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly:
<STRONG>You guys are actually missing the point of rod of ressurection. Its not really for raising chars, its an emergency quick heal! Sat a fighter or a mage is taking massive hits, use the rod and get all its hits back immediately. Far better to keep chars alive than to raise them. I have my clerics load up on as many as I can, and when soemone is about to bite it use that. works as fast as a wand, and potions can still take too long. you need to get that chars hit points up to max now. That is why I like mass raise dead, never had to use it yet, but it should work like mass cure. greater restoration, with Tob installed, soes the same thing, a combat "oh crap, everyone is dying" emergency heal for everyone.</STRONG>

You have a point--provided the knowledge of having such a rod doesn't make you take greater chances. After all, I don't want a cheese prop. The rod's expensive to sell and buy back, and only carries 10 charges. And I'm not going to sell and steal it, since that's the ultimate in unrealistic, break-the-illusion-of-reality tricks.

Originally posted by Eleshar:
<STRONG>Well, I WOULD really like to say Cernd.. but I think Jaheira.. I mean, Cernd is good and all, and it would be a NICE and tough challenge to keep him around.. but I mean, for beginners, take Jaheira as the Druid. She's got quite a lot of spells.. so yeah.</STRONG>

Sure! But if you want to try something different, after having won the game once or twice (or four times), Cernd makes a great challenge.

Here's my current party, fifth time around, and this one's good/neutral:

Keldorn
Anomen
Cernd
Jan/Imoen
Aerie
Sorc (me)

I've been considering dropping Aerie for Haer'dalis, whom I've never tried before. Again, I'm not looking to powerplay, but just attempting to try out a bunch of different abilities. Any thoughts on the matter?

I think the party looks good the way it is - you have 3 mages 3 clerics - lots of spells + Keldorns awesome dispels and true sights. A little light in the tank dept. with just keldorn, but it's been pointed out that Cernd can change into a tank, I know that Anomen is not bad (flail of ages), and people have even made the case for Aerie, although her low HP is a drawback IMO.

One thing I notice is that your two obvious front liners, Keldorn and Anomen, both have unfortunate DEX problems...so who gets the gauntlets? I would assume they go to Keldorn, so Anomen is not going to be able to achieve his best AC...I went through a game with both of them and just had Anomen use a potion of agility in some of the worst battles. It's too bad theres no DEX (or CON) equivalent of Mage spell "Strength".

Anyway, if you've never played with Haer Dalis before, I say use him. You'll lose out some in the cleric category, but you'll gain a sort of frontliner/support guy. The only downside? All men in the party! (except I don't know about the PC)

@Jaker writes:
I think the party looks good the way it is - you have 3 mages 3 clerics - lots of spells + Keldorns awesome dispels and true sights. A little light in the tank dept. with just keldorn, but it's been pointed out that Cernd can change into a tank, I know that Anomen is not bad (flail of ages), and people have even made the case for Aerie, although her low HP is a drawback IMO.
One thing I notice is that your two obvious front liners, Keldorn and Anomen, both have unfortunate DEX problems...so who gets the gauntlets? I would assume they go to Keldorn, so Anomen is not going to be able to achieve his best AC...I went through a game with both of them and just had Anomen use a potion of agility in some of the worst battles. It's too bad theres no DEX (or CON) equivalent of Mage spell "Strength".

I was thinking of removing Keldorn for a while, just to make things a bit tougher: imagine Haer'dalis as your tank! But I figured that both muscle and magic in vast quantities are necessary for ToB. I may just drop Aerie, and add in Haer'dalis.

Anyway, if you've never played with Haer Dalis before, I say use him. You'll lose out some in the cleric category, but you'll gain a sort of frontliner/support guy. The only downside? All men in the party! (except I don't know about the PC)

The PC's female, because I'd never read Anomen's romance plot beyond the first two chapters. Like the others, it's surprisingly well conceived and executed. (Surprisingly so, because what could have been no more than a cliche is given depth and motivation by bringing in personal background.) They're also well-integrated with the storyline--all, that is, except Aerie, as we never really get to see any other members of her old culture.

Originally posted by Quitch:
<STRONG>Imagine if the Avatar from the unseeing eye quest had been an NPC, dear God! I'd dread every interaction.

Soooooooooooooo Jaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhheeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrriiiiiiaaaaaaaaaaaa IIIIIIIIIIIIIII heeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrr.......</STRONG>

LOL

Originally posted by Mr. Sprinkles:
<STRONG>Not only does Cernd abandon his wife and child, he does it twice</STRONG>

Ouch. Now there's a ToB spoiler if I ever saw one. I'm glad I'm already spoiled rotten myself.

Fable, engage!

Originally posted by fable:
<STRONG>The rod's expensive to sell and buy back, and only carries 10 charges. And I'm not going to sell and steal it, since that's the ultimate in unrealistic, break-the-illusion-of-reality tricks.</STRONG>

But what if you sell it back to another merchant? Before you've stolen the same Rod of Resurrection from every merchant in Faerun, you should be more than filthy rich already.

Originally posted by fable:
<STRONG>imagine Haer'dalis as your tank! </STRONG>

Actually, he's a bit of a Fighter/Mage. Those make the best tanks, IMHO.

Haer is an awesome tank with his defensive spin ability, although he is rooted in place when thats used. The only drawback I found about him was his low Constitution, but givingh him the belt of fortitude should fix that (constitution to 18 for 8 hours anyone?).

Originally posted by Longshadow:
<STRONG>Haer is an awesome tank with his defensive spin ability, although he is rooted in place when thats used. The only drawback I found about him was his low Constitution, but givingh him the belt of fortitude should fix that (constitution to 18 for 8 hours anyone?).</STRONG>

Yes Haerdalis is awesome. I use him as a tank
(Far better than all other NPCs tank [personal opinion]). The defensive spin keep you stoped, but if you use a freedom ring, or something other item that gives free action, i think he can move even in DSpin. Things like: Use any Item( Crom) , Protection from magic weapon (bladesinger protect from normal), Stoneskin, Mirror image, Blur, Improved haste, DSpin, Dex18. Make Haer an awesome npc.

But all that I wrote is well knowed, and was wrote before( and is off topic[sorry]).

[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: Ivan Cavallazzi ]

hey, this may seem a little off-topic, but it may be relevent in choosing Cernd. Anyway, he's a pure shapeshifter.. and when I played my game (my PC is a shapeshifter too), I found that in ToB, when I shapeshift into a Greater Elemental (Earth), I had an incredible AC of.. -13!!! wow! haha.. and as a greater ww, I was.. er.. AC -5, I think? or -4. So yeah.. Cernd is pretty good as a fighter.

Originally posted by Eleshar:
<STRONG>hey, this may seem a little off-topic, but it may be relevent in choosing Cernd. Anyway, he's a pure shapeshifter.. and when I played my game (my PC is a shapeshifter too), I found that in ToB, when I shapeshift into a Greater Elemental (Earth), I had an incredible AC of.. -13!!! wow! haha.. and as a greater ww, I was.. er.. AC -5, I think? or -4. So yeah.. Cernd is pretty good as a fighter.</STRONG>

The base AC of a Greater Elemental is the same no matter what kit your PC/NPC has. The Greater Werewolf has a base AC far below -5.

Originally posted by Xyx:
<STRONG>quote:
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Originally posted by Mr. Sprinkles:
Not only does Cernd abandon his wife and child, he does it twice
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Ouch. Now there's a ToB spoiler if I ever saw one. I'm glad I'm already spoiled rotten myself.

Fable, engage!</STRONG>

@Xyx, as I see it, that info isn't actually important to gameplay. Knowing it doesn't reveal anything that will affect either your enjoyment, or your decision-making.

But I would ask all forum members to please, be careful when posting stuff about the games in a topic that doesn't have "SPOILER" in its title. Thanks.

I want to point out about the Rod of Resurrection - once you have stolen something from a shop, you can't sell it back to ANY shopkeeper (except the ones at the thieves guild). So buy your wands of Resurrection, don't steal them. It is an expensive quick heal, I think about 1400 gold per use at least depending on rep, but it sure is good when you really need it.

Sorry for a bit of off-topic posting...

@ Fable: Delete this post if you like; I'm just interested in your opinion.

Originally posted by fable:
<STRONG>@Xyx, as I see it, that info isn't actually important to gameplay. Knowing it doesn't reveal anything that will affect either your enjoyment, or your decision-making.</STRONG>

So if I post that...

*** BIG-A$$ ToB SPOILER COMING UP ***
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You were warned...
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Vicky dies at the end of ToB if you are romancing her...

That wouldn't affect anyones gameplay, but it would sure piss me off knowing that in advance...

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End Of Spoiler