Wizard all the way. For me, magic is about diversity, not just about being able to kill everything in sight with 10+ Fireballs. Having a nice selection of different spells can be a bonus because you actually get to choose which ones you want to use, and when. Call me old-fashioned, but I'm an admirer of The Image of The Mage In His/Her Tower, and the idea that a character spends years on learning/studying spells, potions, etc, simply appeals to me.
With a little multi-classing, wizards can be just as devastating as sorcerers ( Wiz/Rogue, anyone? ), if not even more so. Granted, they're cannon fodder in their early levels, but that's... well, that's where the ROLEplaying comes in for me, in NWN2 even more so than in NWN1. NWN2 really does give me the feeling that my character is "young" and that they gradually get to the high-level BOOM! spells and that they *work* for those spells.
Plus, I sometimes really like the challenge of playing characters that have problems getting through a dungeon, because it adds a bit of reality to the game overall. If I went through the entire game like a breeze, with only one or two things really giving me problems, I'd lose interest. Fast.
I guess, in the end, for me it comes down to how well I can play my pre-conceived ideas of what a class SHOULD be like, in the game. My favourite class has always been wizard, and NWN1 and NWN2 allow me to shape them how I want them. I tried Sorcerer, but it just wasn't "it" for me. It's the same reason why I'll probably never play a Barbarian, Cleric, or Paladin - they just don't interest me, and I don't care if a Cleric can make mincemeat out of Undead even at low levels while a Wiz or Sorc will probably spend some time running away from the Undead, or at least resting several times.
Gawd, I hope that made sense. I've been playing for something like 17 hours straight now.
Sorc or mage, and why?
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Ningengirai
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These two classes are all about choosing the right spells. With a sorc you should choose the spells you learn and with a wizard the ones you memorize. I think sorcerer is slightly better. I cannot understand why wizards have the opportunity to choose 2 spells at every level up, it was always a thing that sorcs do.
But of course there is the question of spell selection. If you made through the game once, wizards could be better since you can prepare in advance. But if you are facing unknown perils, sorcs has the cutting edge. Mainly because a wizard has to memorize spells which can't be used in battle (identify/knock etc), and in a long fight could reach a point, when they have for example a memorized spiderskin, stoneskin, mirror image, knock, several vitriolic spheres, while some damned bladelings are gutting out the fighters. If a wizard enters combat, she casts her best spell, then the second one, and so on. After a time she has only her useless/worse spells, while a sorc can cast their best spell from that level over and over again.
Also more spells per level means that a sorc can cast more buff spells on the party.
Since I cannot mention more than 5 really good spells from each level (actually three is hard from level 6 for example), I play sorc.
Also wizardy is mainly luxury. To have stoneskin and greater stoneskin as well. So what? I usually kill everything (on solo) while it damages me for 100...
But of course there is the question of spell selection. If you made through the game once, wizards could be better since you can prepare in advance. But if you are facing unknown perils, sorcs has the cutting edge. Mainly because a wizard has to memorize spells which can't be used in battle (identify/knock etc), and in a long fight could reach a point, when they have for example a memorized spiderskin, stoneskin, mirror image, knock, several vitriolic spheres, while some damned bladelings are gutting out the fighters. If a wizard enters combat, she casts her best spell, then the second one, and so on. After a time she has only her useless/worse spells, while a sorc can cast their best spell from that level over and over again.
Also more spells per level means that a sorc can cast more buff spells on the party.
Since I cannot mention more than 5 really good spells from each level (actually three is hard from level 6 for example), I play sorc.
Also wizardy is mainly luxury. To have stoneskin and greater stoneskin as well. So what? I usually kill everything (on solo) while it damages me for 100...
Really there is no reason to pick Sorcerer over Wizard in NWN2 unless it's for roleplay reasons or to qualify for a prestige class. There is no penalty/time table in the game to stop you from resting as needed for new spells. You have access to every spell in the game and can swap them out at will. You get alot more feats as a wizard with your free wizard feats. Also as a Sorcerer you get about 6 spells per day where a Wizard gets 4. You also get access slower to higher level spells as a Sorcerer.
Don't get me wrong are Sorcerer's cool? Hell yes they are and in pen-n-paper they have great appeal especially because many times you have to do things within a time table. But as there is no such thing in place in NWN2 much of the benifits a Sorcerer get are removed. Sorcerer's are a great class and have a lot of roleplaying potential, but I don't see a reason to play one outside of said roleplay reason in the game.
Don't get me wrong are Sorcerer's cool? Hell yes they are and in pen-n-paper they have great appeal especially because many times you have to do things within a time table. But as there is no such thing in place in NWN2 much of the benifits a Sorcerer get are removed. Sorcerer's are a great class and have a lot of roleplaying potential, but I don't see a reason to play one outside of said roleplay reason in the game.
wizards.
in a game like iwd2 where you knew what your party was going to be from the moment you stepped off the boat (and considering that games bias vs wizards) sorcs were the natural best choice - however in nwn2 you really only have your pc to rely on the rest of the party may change over time. anyway...
the 1st 5 points have been covered in depth already.
1. int = skills
2. free feats
3. more variety of spells
4. higher level of spells sooner.
5. item creation
6. oppertunity cost & freedom from choice - i've noticed that as a sorc advances to a new spell level they often have one spell they can select an cast several times a day, however it may not be optimal to cast that spell several times between rests. a wizard usually seems to have more new spells of any given level as soon as they reach that level. making it possible for them to memorize both a solid defensive buff and offensive or utility spells.
7. spice - wizards can change things up a bit from fight to fight using totally new tactics requiring a totally new slate of spells. given the ease of retreating or reloading - it's possible for them to approach the same situation from totally new positions - sorcs are much less flexible off of reloads or retreats.
in a game like iwd2 where you knew what your party was going to be from the moment you stepped off the boat (and considering that games bias vs wizards) sorcs were the natural best choice - however in nwn2 you really only have your pc to rely on the rest of the party may change over time. anyway...
the 1st 5 points have been covered in depth already.
1. int = skills
2. free feats
3. more variety of spells
4. higher level of spells sooner.
5. item creation
6. oppertunity cost & freedom from choice - i've noticed that as a sorc advances to a new spell level they often have one spell they can select an cast several times a day, however it may not be optimal to cast that spell several times between rests. a wizard usually seems to have more new spells of any given level as soon as they reach that level. making it possible for them to memorize both a solid defensive buff and offensive or utility spells.
7. spice - wizards can change things up a bit from fight to fight using totally new tactics requiring a totally new slate of spells. given the ease of retreating or reloading - it's possible for them to approach the same situation from totally new positions - sorcs are much less flexible off of reloads or retreats.
"all around you is tinder for the gods"
well if it was only the case of pure mage-on-mage, mage-on-mob fights then i would stick with sorc as he simply is more potent at devastating using fav spells. at least that would work this way if nwn2 wouldn't allow the resting anywhere anytime (almost). tak the last mentioned and all the here discussed other bonuses and suddenly the mage/wizard seems to be best thing to choose. or is it...? well now i think that what was once sorcs main attribute now is to be found in warlock class - afterall this is where pure magic power is hidden, with unlimited spells per day and far longer buffs than those from either sorc or wiz spell list 
think of warlock as of specialized sorc - you get less spells but far more of them and should anyone say that warlock is worse than sorc or wiz due to his one blast per round... try to remember that most potent sorc/wiz spells also are to be cast during one round... so there's no difference. if you start to think of item creation - wiz is the go, as sorc has limited any focused group of spells so he is almost not the creator type of hero. just as warlock. ok, so that's what i believe - warlocks take the niche before occupied by sorc, and they do it really well, wizards keep their towers for themselves, and with the game resting no-rules are simply the better choice.
cheers, mCrvn
think of warlock as of specialized sorc - you get less spells but far more of them and should anyone say that warlock is worse than sorc or wiz due to his one blast per round... try to remember that most potent sorc/wiz spells also are to be cast during one round... so there's no difference. if you start to think of item creation - wiz is the go, as sorc has limited any focused group of spells so he is almost not the creator type of hero. just as warlock. ok, so that's what i believe - warlocks take the niche before occupied by sorc, and they do it really well, wizards keep their towers for themselves, and with the game resting no-rules are simply the better choice.cheers, mCrvn
Wizard/EK but that is because I plan to tank and be fire support.
That combination requires two sets of spells that together are more then you get as sorcerer.
@Zamiel:
You are whacking at strawmens there. If you wouldn't take a spell as sorcerer why would you use it as wizard? Like the identify/knock you mentioned.
For the first you have lore, for the second a thief (which you want around for trapfinding). But that is the strength of a wizard, there is the possibility to take those with you, the drawbacks are that you can cast two spells less of each level compared to the sorcerer as generalist or one spell less when you specialize in a school and having to guess ahead what is is needed.
The thing that would make a sorcerer a real PITA is sadly missing though. Imagine a sorcerer going for evocations (like Qara) and one or two feats for energy subsitution. Stops those pesky resistant/immune critters dead in their tracks
That combination requires two sets of spells that together are more then you get as sorcerer.
@Zamiel:
You are whacking at strawmens there. If you wouldn't take a spell as sorcerer why would you use it as wizard? Like the identify/knock you mentioned.
For the first you have lore, for the second a thief (which you want around for trapfinding). But that is the strength of a wizard, there is the possibility to take those with you, the drawbacks are that you can cast two spells less of each level compared to the sorcerer as generalist or one spell less when you specialize in a school and having to guess ahead what is is needed.
The thing that would make a sorcerer a real PITA is sadly missing though. Imagine a sorcerer going for evocations (like Qara) and one or two feats for energy subsitution. Stops those pesky resistant/immune critters dead in their tracks
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wildstarsreach
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A sorcerer. Whereas the Wizard's ability for flexibility is great, 90% of the spells typically taken are from a select few which isn't much more than the repertiore of a typical sorcerer. The spontaneous casting is almost broken. I am a psionics lover and the sorcerer is the closest this system.
Life may be but a dream... but living it as you envision it is the goal!!!!!
The video game situation ruins some of the wizards flexibility and value. All of the highly useful terrain altering spells are not in the game. Such things as using fly, levitate, dimension door, etc are all taken out of the video game, reducing the value of the wizard and increasing the value of the sorcerer.wildstarsreach wrote:A sorcerer. Whereas the Wizard's ability for flexibility is great, 90% of the spells typically taken are from a select few which isn't much more than the repertiore of a typical sorcerer. The spontaneous casting is almost broken. I am a psionics lover and the sorcerer is the closest this system.
"You can do whatever you want to me."
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"Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?"
"So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
I prefer Sorceres, mainly because I like how they have magic naturaly, not because they leanred them.
However, I also like their being able to cast many spells a day.
Beyond level 5, a sorcerer can become really powerful
However, I also like their being able to cast many spells a day.
Beyond level 5, a sorcerer can become really powerful
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference."
Robert Frost
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference."
Robert Frost
Wizard. I never really liked the sorcerer class as presented in the 3rd edition. I'd rather there'd be a group of people who would be gifted magic users who learn magic by exploring, as if they can pull with their mental grasp (or gift) what wizards pull with their spells and by learning.
That should be rare and special, like.. paladins. Or more rare seeing paladins have their gifts given to them by a divine power (not that I think nothing of the other aspects of paladinhood). Think of, say, Raistlin who although a wizard, was gifted with a special grasp of magic.
Indeed, I'd rather it'd be special and highly restrictive, like a prestige class. Someone more focused on magic rather than less, as that is the image I get from the sorcerer as put forward by WoTC (magic users with less restrictions and more armour and cool weapons!). Then again, I think most things WoTC added in 3rd ed. were done so to make the game easier and more appealing to a younger audience.. rather than for the purpose of improving the game.
/end rant
That should be rare and special, like.. paladins. Or more rare seeing paladins have their gifts given to them by a divine power (not that I think nothing of the other aspects of paladinhood). Think of, say, Raistlin who although a wizard, was gifted with a special grasp of magic.
Indeed, I'd rather it'd be special and highly restrictive, like a prestige class. Someone more focused on magic rather than less, as that is the image I get from the sorcerer as put forward by WoTC (magic users with less restrictions and more armour and cool weapons!). Then again, I think most things WoTC added in 3rd ed. were done so to make the game easier and more appealing to a younger audience.. rather than for the purpose of improving the game.
/end rant
I can't be good no more, once like I did before.
I can't be good, baby,
Honey, because the world's gone wrong. ---Bob Dylan, 'World Gone Wrong'
I can't be good, baby,
Honey, because the world's gone wrong. ---Bob Dylan, 'World Gone Wrong'
Wizards all the way. Extra feats, more spells - whats not to like? Resting is very easy in NWN2, so thats not an issue. Also, many people keep forgetting that wizards get a LOT of skillpoints as well, since they are pumping intelligence anyway. This was especially useful before Tumble got nerfed in NWN2 - I pumped it on each of my wizards in HOTU for those supremely useful 3 extra AC points (suspect thats one of the reasons Tumble got nerfed btw - too useful for its own good
From an RP point of view wizards are more appealing to me as well. I like the idea of a recluse (dark, broooding perhaps) who is delving into the secrets of the arcane with an unquenchable thirst. All other pursuits are regarded with a tinge of scorn. So, its just a matter of choice and I choose wizards.
From an RP point of view wizards are more appealing to me as well. I like the idea of a recluse (dark, broooding perhaps) who is delving into the secrets of the arcane with an unquenchable thirst. All other pursuits are regarded with a tinge of scorn. So, its just a matter of choice and I choose wizards.
I've always enjoyed the Sorcerer class personally. I like creating a theme for the sorc in my head and selecting appropriate spells that fit in the theme, but keep the character effective in many situations. Creating such a character is almost as fun as playing them IMO.
I will not bother to repeat the arguments already given in favor of spontaneous spell casting. However, there is another reason I prefer the spontaneous casting of a sorcerer to a wizards prepared spell selection and that is practical use in multiplayer situations. As a sorcerer you become very familiar with the spells you have available, and having fewer known spells makes quickslot management far easier. I've found that it is critical in a realtime (no pausing) multiplayer situation to be able to fire off the right spell at a moment's notice. A wizard's constantly changing repitoire of spells does not lend itself to this kind of reflexive spell casting.
I would suggest that if you are focusing on combat in a multiplayer environment, give the sorcerer thorough consideration. Otherwise just go with the class that fits your play style. The wizard's bonus feats and potential knowledge of every spell is not to be passed over lightly.
I will not bother to repeat the arguments already given in favor of spontaneous spell casting. However, there is another reason I prefer the spontaneous casting of a sorcerer to a wizards prepared spell selection and that is practical use in multiplayer situations. As a sorcerer you become very familiar with the spells you have available, and having fewer known spells makes quickslot management far easier. I've found that it is critical in a realtime (no pausing) multiplayer situation to be able to fire off the right spell at a moment's notice. A wizard's constantly changing repitoire of spells does not lend itself to this kind of reflexive spell casting.
I would suggest that if you are focusing on combat in a multiplayer environment, give the sorcerer thorough consideration. Otherwise just go with the class that fits your play style. The wizard's bonus feats and potential knowledge of every spell is not to be passed over lightly.