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I must admit SJ, after playing more IWD my views have changed. I would still reccomend a newbie enlist the help of the trapped adventurers. However, you get far more XP if you put a paladin up front. Then using the ol' greas&gas + missile weapons, its easy money.

Addendum for HoW
Call to arms has drastically changed some of the set-piece battles in IWD. Instead of sneaking around and taking out enemies one at a time you must change tactics.

Easthaven - you don't need help here, do you?

Vale of Shadows - little has changed here, skeletons usually swamped you in the open areas anyway. Still large enough to allow sneaking.

Forgotten temple - again, no change. Verbeegs are spread out, though you may face a tough fight against 3 or more at once if unlucky.

Dragon's Eye - this is tougher. Swarms of bombardier beetles must be faced off by a tank with the solitary protection from acid scroll you pick up somewhere. There are a few tough lizardmen fights. Use narrow corridors/a bridge and gas/grease + missile weapons. The Trolls & priests battle is tough. But they can be lured into the passageway before the temple and gas/greased - the trolls need fire and the priests can be silenced/held or mown down. Massed Cold Wights can be turned or Smited (smitten? ). Prayer spells and defensive harmony are mandatory. Poison zombies will explode with a level 5/6 cleric turning them. Yuan-ti (when you discover them, the high archers room, the corridor before X and the Xuonemei herself fight) - lure them into corridors/doorways and use gas/grease/web and fireball (smite works on the elites and priests). One potion of fiery burning - use it wisely. I also found burning hands works better than magic missile at this point (but your mage must be well protected).

Severed Hand - With the ambushes and marksmen I found this no more difficult than before. Even the Skeletons are spread out.

Thats it so far. More later...

[ 08-03-2001: Message edited by: Gruntboy ]

Save me Gruntboy! Man, I'be been playing BG too long, and have forgotten that sometimes fights can actually be hard. Here's the thing: I just got HoW, and I am getting my butt kicked So hurry up with tactics lesson 102: Heart of Winter!

Any specific problems? Is it HoW or IWD?

More Severed Hand: No noticeable problems here. The elf battles usually resulted in massed charges anyway so this is no more difficult than before.

Dorn's Deep: Myconids and Ettins are easy. The battle at the entrance has always been tough but is not significantly different with HoW installed. There are a few instances where massed charging Neo-Orogs can cause you problems - especially the Warlords who deal out loads of damage. However, by this point your bard (if you have one) can sing the war-chant of sith and your healing problems are over... Undead are no match for clerics at this stage. I experienced some difficulty with the lich, who now seems to recognise invisible characters looking for his key and phylacteries - be quick and be protected from fear or magic. The Bronze guardians are tough, but no more so than usual.

Wyrm's Teeth: Trolls, Frost Salamanders, Frost Giants etc. are all tough cookies but HoW adds little to the difficulty. I was able to tempt Kontik's Ice Knights away one by one. No call to arms?

Lower Dorn's: Fire Salamanders and Tarnished Sentries, by this stage, cause few problems. I'd even run out of missile weapons with my party and took them on in hand-to-hand. Its easy with a few fire protection scrolls and weapons. My mage casting Snilloc's with kontik's ring (+15% cold dmg and X2 spells) is catastrophic against the salamanders (who suffer extra cold damage). Having been through this already, the standard problems are half as tough. A stock of clarity potions defeats the Umberhulks. The fire giants die at the bridge. Marketh's thugs can no longer dissapear in front of you and backstab (thank you HoW!). I found the Malavon fight easy this time but the Flozum almost whupped me single handed! The church was quite irritating. The bone guardians swarm all over you so I turned them. But that meant I could never quite destroy them - they kept running. After blundering into the insanely powerful mummies/zombie lords a few times, I stuck to turning and slowly nibbling away at the guardians. It took forever but I eventually blitzed the remaing cadavers and the Idol is easy.

Poquelin: This fight has been made tougher. Haven't done it yet...

Noticed that he summons bronze guardians in the fight now. How inconvenient

[ 08-13-2001: Message edited by: Gruntboy ]

A few reflections before moving to HoW.

Good armour is scarce. Its not till the severed hand and dorn's deep that you find anything. You have to buy your own platemail, stock up with protection items and use spells and potions (snake scales, agility, defensive harmony etc). High Dex, as always, helps.

Low level spells rock! I must've used grease constantly - it turns every battle. Stinking cloud, magic missile, mirror image, acid arrow, web and flame hands are all essential. Flame hands helps ennormously in confined spaces. It is only slightly weaker than magic missile but delivers the impact to an area instead of one enemy.

The best tactic, bearing n mind the two factors above, is to stock up on missile weapons and level 1 spells. There are a few long stretches where you may run out of arrows. But you can use a bard and dual class mages and it doesn't matter that you don't have high level spells till later.

Whilst some of the set piece battles have changed I still think my original tactics work. But HoW puts some nasty surprises in IWD.

HoW next.

@Gruntboy: Well, the first damn fighting is on that Isle of (sumthin), where all the wights and drowned undead are. I cleared out everything above ground - only having to re-load about 45 times!!! But I really don't know about those underground areas. Very nasty.

I know what you mean, the first time I tried HoW I got slaughtered by the first band of barrow wights

A lot will depend on your party and weapons. First thing I did was buy "Three Doves" as it has a % chance of destroying undead outright.

I found by blundering around I was fighting more than I had too at a time. Careful sneaking helps you to discover the enemy first and plan an attack. I prefer an offensive-defense. Lure the Wights out with a tank or archer (whom will then be targetted) then withdraw to a defensive line. You may have to bolster your party with defensive spells (defensive harmony, protection from evil, prayer) or potions (strength, agility, speed). Mages can cast offensive spells from the rear (acid arrow, magic missile, fireaball).

The important thing is to concentrate your efforts. If you "pair off" against the enemy you will suffer. If you can have one or two tanked characters occupy the bulk of the enemies, you can concentrate 4 or 5 others against a single enemy, take that enemy out then move on to the next. That way, the mass fighting your tanks will dwindle and become less effective.

What is your party compostion (classes, weapons etc.)?

@Gruntboy: Here's the scoop. I'm too poor to buy any new equipment, so that tactic is out. (Anyway, I think my equipment is pretty good, see below.) I've tried luring out the baddies one at a time, but I SWEAR there is some new AI that brings an entire group out together, even when you only get in range of seeing one. Time after time, I see one enemy, take a few steps back and wait, and then three, four, five come into visual range! So, maybe it's just my group, but I thought it was pretty good (got me through IWD no problem):

Siegrune Valkyrie; lvl 12 Paladin, w/ 2H sword +4 (backbiter - I figure it's worth it).

Magdalena; lvl 10/12 Fighter/Druid, w/ Slayer (spear +5).

Graf Ludwig; lvl 10/12 Fighter/Thief w/ Lonesome Road (axe +3).

Fromme Gregor; lvl 10/10 Fighter/Cleric w/ War Hammer +4 (Defender).

August vom Wald; lvl 12 Ranger w/ Cairn Blade (great sword +4).

Der Moench; lvl 13 Cleric w/ Giving Star (morning star +3).

Sound OK. I think this game is just damn harder than the others, and I may just have to keep my temper down as I hit that triple digit reload mark!

But, any advice...

Your party is fine - it should give you plenty of options.

HoW *does* have improved AI - the monsters have a "call to arms" function that draws nearer monsters into combat. You cannot sneak around and draw them off one at a time. This is why preparation is important - prepare a defense and draw the monsters onto it.

Two notes - you are using a lot of 2-handed weapons. This means you are not using some of the excellent +2, +3 and +4 shields avaialable to lower your AC. You are also lacking a mage - this, whilst being a personal choice, might affect your ability to cause damage later in the game.

But other than that, your party sounds great. All of your characters can wear heavy armour. You have 3 characters capable of casting defensive spells (figher/druid, fighter/cleric and cleric) - use this. Spells like curse will make it difficult for the undead to hit you, prayer will make it easier to hit them, defensive harmony reduces your AC. Do you use "turn undead"? It won't damage the wights but it will turn them to give you better odds.

Thanks, Gruntboy. I'll keep hacking away. One thing that may help is if I memorize more of the spells you mention. I usually stock my spellcasters with heal spells (no real healing potions in IWD/HoW that I have been able to get), and gift short shrift to the others. 2H weapons - yeah, my AC could use a boost on one or two characters, but I have allotted my skills in the 2H categories now, so...

Anyway, thanks again. I am too frustrated with the game to pick it up right now, but I am sure in a week or two I'll be posting more of these

In response to the HoW changes to monster AI, I've had to develop ambush tatics. I have my thief scout out enemy locations, then I try to choose an area where the enemy will be forced into a bottleneck, then I'll have my thief backstab someone and immediately go invisible. The monsters swarm my main party, and I nail them with missile weapons and spells. In area with lots of Undead, like the Burial Isle, I set up an Undead Ward and/or Wall of Moonlight beforehand. This works pretty well for most areas.

I agree Sojourner. I have resorted to bushwhacking my enemies, using the terrain and defending.

My bard constantly sings the war chant of sith or the one that protects from sound attacks and my cleric (on the burial isle) turns undead. I effectively fight with 4 characters.

Poquelin: In Lower Dorn's, I found this an easy fight. If you are protected from fire it helps. Bronze Guardians add to the toughness. But Poquelin is easy to beat first time around.

Easthaven: Cyclopses, not a problem. Pomab is nor more difficult.

Belhifet - haven't done this yet.

HoW - more spoilers!
First thing, when to go to HoW? If you defeat Belhifet first you can pick up the Restored blade of Aihonen and have Tiernon upgrade it later. But if you go to Isacaracht first you can face Belhifet with higher level characters...?

Lonely wood is interesting and there are a few sub quests.

Burial Isle
The Wights and Drowned dead are tough - only constant damage will bring them down as they are fairly resistant to all forms of attack.

Sneak to draw out only as many as you have to - the call to arms will mean you cannot face 1 at a time. So prepare your defences (all those potions you never used in IWD). Weapons and armour should be +3 by now. Try defensive spells that lower your AC or enemy chances to hit (curse, prayer). Sirens - the only way to prevent them really messing you up is with a bard (at this stage a bard means you can also concentrate on defensive as opposed to healing cleric spells). I found my mage really sidelinded. Even turn undead has only a small chance of working.

Gloomfrost
This has to be the most unimaginative level I have ever come acros. Once past the fodder you simply face a level of Rhemoraz and a level of Ice Golems. This is purely to get your characters up levels by 10 or 14K a kill. I mean, sheesh, The lich was 10K!

Magic is ineffectice so its hack & slash time. If you are in dire straits you can really only do things that reduce hits (protection spells) or speed up the hack and slash (haste). Boring. You have to watch out for the Rhemoraz. They do massive damage when they hit and a % chance of doing huge fire damage (they burn thru the ice). I got hit *once* for something like 80+ dmg, 40 odd physical and 40 odd fire damage - both reduced by 30-60% because of resistances!!! At this point I didn't even bother experimenting with magic - each spell is wasted time hacking at the golems/rhemoraz. Ho hum. There are a few nasty occasions where you have to take on 3/4 at a time. Haste (even if already tired) and hack 'em up.

The Barbarian camp is a walk over.

Isacaracht
More boring levels. You need lots of fire/acid for trolls. Protection from cold is handy too - the Vexed Armour is a bonus against the frozen undead. At this point I am tossing +1/2 weapons aside because I just can't be bothered to take them and sell them. Oh dear.

The Sahaguin actually offer a challenge. At one point they come at you in two huge waves (can take them on 1 wave at a time). Kill, retreat to a room and prepare, then kill again. Repeat.

Haven't done big I yet. Then on to TotLM.

Reflection on HoW -

More awesome weapons, items, spells and enemies. But boring. Its like they're dragging you through blood because only level advancement will satisfy. Too quick. Enemies are powerful and not clever, despite call to arms. In fact, the smaller enemies who swamp you are more difficult (Elves in severed hand for e.g. or Sahaguin).

My mage is weak (considering there are no protection/piercing duels like in BG2). Fighters do stacks more damage. Clerics are useful for the defensive spells but can drop the healing spells if you have a bard. You cannot justify a thief beyond level 9 or 10.

I dare say Isacaracht will be a tough cookie but I know even TotLM will not keep me going. But I've had fun.

[ 08-21-2001: Message edited by: Gruntboy ]

Originally posted by Gruntboy:
<STRONG>Gloomfrost
This has to be the most unimaginative level I have ever come acros. Once past the fodder you simply face a level of Rhemoraz and a level of Ice Golems. This is purely to get your characters up levels by 10 or 14K a kill. I mean, sheesh, The lich was 10K!</STRONG>

This area was tough! Once I dealt with the monsters already present, I then had to watch out for Rhemoraz ambushing from behind whenever my party crossed a trigger line!

*Bermp*

***Spoiler warning still stands***

In Addition

Final areas of HoW:

Barbarian camp - easy if you don't hurt friendlies by mistake (Hjolder turns red).

Lonelywood - fairly tough fight with cowled wizards but its not a problem this late in the game.

Icasaracht's isle - trolls aplenty so fire/acid is needed. Frozen undead are nasty but all the cold protection items you've been saving help you through.

Sahaguin - I decimated these fishy fellas using magic. Chain lightining works wonders. Any area effect spell works.

Icasracht - tough needless to say but the only time I've never had to restart with a final battle! Using a tank with the vexed armour I cast area spells either side of the dragon - death fog, smite evil and suchlike. Everyone else piled on the missile weapons, switching places 1 at a time with the tank if wounds necessitated. When I got her down to "near death" a few of my gals (female paladins) we're beat up themselves, so I retreated. My mage stood her ground and (having hit the big I with "lower resistance" at the start) unleashed "Malavon's Rage". Score 1 Undead White Dragon to my weakest party member, the Thief/Mage!

LOL!

TotLM

I was surprised at the time it took me to complete this, for a 70mb download!

My Bard showed her worth again - defeating harpy sound attacks. But whilst there were some tough fights (the WereJackals, Spectral Guards and other adventurers), there was nothing that you shuoldn't be able to get through by this stage. The jelly trap had me going for a while *****SPOILER****(highlight) until I discovered acid damage kills them and you don't have to escape the trap!!! LOL.
Final thoughts

I am a fan of IWD and have enjoyed all of the add-ons. Sure, you're too powerful at the end but then the game is almost over so that's fair but it makes the add-ons exercises in building XP. It was fun hunting for anything better than plate mail when you were still level 6 or 7!

The mass battles are something BG misses out on. Hordes of shadow elves/goblins, trolls, minotaurs, sahaguin, frost giants. Awesome.

It came down to 2 things. Choosing your party and your tactics (and your party composition can dictate your tactics).

I still think mages are weak in IWD - any more than 1 and you run the risk of being swamped. But they are extremely valuable support. In that respect a bard is just as good, or an excellent way of sneaking in a "second" mage. Bardsong rocks. After level 12 or so, I didn't need healing spells.

A thief is not essential. I tend to dual a thief and often this removes thieving skills at the most crucial point in the game! But I survived.

After that I feel that choices are moot. Clerics, druids and fighers are all needed to hold their own in combat.

Having said this, I am trying a part of elves with 3 magic users so I'll see how it goes.

Request

@Gruntboy: This thread is very helpful, and I wonder if you could make this sticky.

Also, if you can find another thread regarding tactics and make it sticky (or add to this one, so that there'll be no "too many sticky" complain ), I'll very much appreciate.

Maybe a little off topic, but just to interject...I found that an Elven ranger equipped with a bow was the ultimate scout, especially if he's hasted, because he can lure the enemies one by one and take out entire bands of enemies by just picking them off, or use oils of fiery burning/poitions of explosions (fireballs), especially when you have the boots of speed (you can run out of the line of sight and hide in shadows again)....also an invisible (potions) thief can detect/disarm traps without being seen....so if you have a ranger and a thief you can cut away a little bit of the cream in a dungeon.


And I'll be the latest one to congratulate Gruntboy on an awesome thread....

@Icasracht, i did play this fight once with just my mage and no one else. The rest of my party got slaughtered in the previous room (due to some tactical blunders on my part) and i just sent my mage through alone for a laugh, with a combination of spells i got the Wrym down to Badly Injured, i couldn't believe it, of course then her minions came along and iced me I think magic is very useful against her and it is one of the easiest fights in the game in my opinion.

Keep the tactics coming guys and gals