Evolution True or False?

Azeroth · Post by **Azeroth** » Wed Aug 29, 2001 7:16 pm

Hmm *reaches down to scratch* I dunna know.....

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Aug 29, 2001 7:46 pm

Originally posted by C Elegans:
@Fable and Nael: Aren't there several kinds of creationism around, like "young earth creationism" who believe the earth is like 6000 years old, and "old earth creationism" like the Jehova's witnesses? Does all creationism exclude evolution?

I'd very much like to hear more about creationism, it's a very uncommon view where I live, and the young earth fundamentalist version I've seen on the web, actually gives me the creeps, it's very scary.

You and me both, @CE. But although the JW's have attempted to coopt a form of Creationism, it's only a splinter of the group. Creationism was founded and supported by fundamentalist Christians who followed a literalist interpretation of the OT--Adam & Eve, Noah and the Great Flood, etc. This is literally true, by their thinking.

@Nael, if Creationism was just a scientific theory like any other, it would have been founded by, supported by, and investigated by non-religious institutions and individuals. Instead, it has always been the darling of the pseudo-scientific fundamentalists, investigated by religious universities, and supported by far right Christian religious congregations and foundations. I don't see how it can be divorced from its roots--after all, it strives to prove that the Genesis story of creation is physically accurate.

Happy Evil · Post by **Happy Evil** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 8:42 am

Originally posted by Word:
@ Happy Evil did you get your signature from a SNL scit with Phil Hartman as Frank sinatra and Sting as Bill Idol?

Yep. I love that bit.

Happy Evil · Post by **Happy Evil** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 9:13 am

Originally posted by fable:


...@Nael, if Creationism was just a scientific theory like any other, it would have been founded by, supported by, and investigated by non-religious institutions and individuals. Instead, it has always been the darling of the pseudo-scientific fundamentalists, investigated by religious universities, and supported by far right Christian religious congregations and foundations. I don't see how it can be divorced from its roots--after all, it strives to prove that the Genesis story of creation is physically accurate.

Wow! One of the few times I get to agree with fable.

I can't imagine how one would produce any physical proof of creationism or the resurrection of Jesus. I think these events ultimatly fall into the "Miracle" or "The bible says so" category.
I guess thats why believers have to have "faith".

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 9:15 am

Originally posted by Happy Evil:
Wow! One of the few times I get to agree with fable.

But if you don't tell anyone, you can still get into all the best clubs.

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 9:16 am

First there was Thorin. He created the earth and the animals and apes. But the animals were to dumb to worship him. So he created human and gave them honda civics so they would worship him.
Sums up evolution and all history.

EMINEM · Post by **EMINEM** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 9:21 am

I can't decide whether to call it a Lie or a Religion. Which term is stronger? Probably the former. In that case, let me state my opinion thus -

Evolution is a lie. Period.

Happy Evil · Post by **Happy Evil** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 9:28 am

Originally posted by fable:
But if you don't tell anyone, you can still get into all the best clubs.

LOL
My lack of fashion sense prevents that.

Happy Evil · Post by **Happy Evil** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 9:40 am

Originally posted by ThorinOakensfield:
First there was Thorin. He created the earth and the animals and apes. But the animals were to dumb to worship him. So he created human and gave them honda civics so they would worship him.
Sums up evolution and all history.

Ahhh, yet another boastful Dwarf.(winks to drinking buddies). Methinks Bordin Steelaxe may have issues with that statement young Thorin. You are a dwarf, right? If so, why do you not profess the creation of steel or ale above all else? Civics? Pa-lease!

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 9:45 am

Originally posted by EMINEM:
I can't decide whether to call it a Lie or a Religion. Which term is stronger? Probably the former. In that case, let me state my opinion thus -

Evolution is a lie. Period.

Then why not respond directly to the exact points CE has posted, @Eminem? I know it takes more time, but it will potentially win you a fairer hearing than the simple statement you've posted.

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 10:02 am

Originally posted by fable:
You and me both, @CE. But although the JW's have attempted to coopt a form of Creationism, it's only a splinter of the group. Creationism was founded and supported by fundamentalist Christians who followed a literalist interpretation of the OT--Adam & Eve, Noah and the Great Flood, etc. This is literally true, by their thinking.

If I recall correctly (and my mind is clouded and dimmed these days) but I thought that the determination of the age of the earth was done by an Oxford (?) Professor of Theology (?) back in the 1800's (?). He utilized the genealogies in the Old Testament to count back the years to the creation of the earth by God, which fell on October 23rd, 4004 BC (IIRC), which just happened to coincide with the start of the Oxford school year! This is one of the funniest things I remember about creationism!

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 10:05 am

Originally posted by fable:
Then why not respond directly to the exact points CE has posted, @Eminem? I know it takes more time, but it will potentially win you a fairer hearing than the simple statement you've posted.

@Fable: I notice in his statement that eminem has managed to equate lies with religions, as well as with science, thus pretty much alienating the entire planet. Just an observation.

EMINEM · Post by **EMINEM** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 12:08 pm

Originally posted by fable:
Then why not respond directly to the exact points CE has posted, @Eminem? I know it takes more time, but it will potentially win you a fairer hearing than the simple statement you've posted.

Perhaps, but I simply wanted to state my opinion in response to Tom's original question, not start another evolution vs. creation debate. In any case, there is no dearth of internet sites devoted to this issue if one sincerely wants to hear both sides of the argument.

IMPO, if you want to believe humans and apes share a common ancestry, or that humans are fundamentally no different from animals, that is your prerogative. I, for one, believe that man was created in the image of God, by God, and for God, and that our being here on earth was divinely purposed, not accidental. I don't know about anyone else, but part of my sense of self-worth growing up as a teenager came from knowing that my being here on Earth was ordained by a loving Creator.

Yeah, yeah, I know I'm descending into airy fairy religious talk again, but hey! That's me.

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 12:17 pm

Originally posted by EMINEM:
[QB]IMPO, if you want to believe humans and apes share a common ancestry, or that humans are fundamentally no different from animals...[/b]

I thought you were going to drop those cheap debate tactics--like misquoting the positions of your opponents in passing. What's the matter, can't deal with a level playing field?

...that is your prerogative. I, for one, believe that man was created in the image of God, by God, and for God, and that our being here on earth was divinely purposed, not accidental.

Which doesn't seem to contradict anything in Evolutionist theory. I still don't see why fundamentalist Christians therefore get so hot under the collar about Evolutionism.

Yeah, yeah, I know I'm descending into airy fairy religious talk again, but hey! That's me.

You needn't be so defensive about taking a specific viewpoint, @Eminem. But you might want to reconsider using questionable debating practices, since that does rile up intelligent people who don't like sleight-of-hand.

EMINEM · Post by **EMINEM** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 12:39 pm

Fable:
Which doesn't seem to contradict anything in Evolutionist theory. I still don't see why fundamentalist Christians therefore get so hot under the collar about Evolutionism.

MM
What? I don't see how Creationism and Evolution cannot NOT contradict each other. Please clarify.

Fable:
You needn't be so defensive about taking a specific viewpoint, @Eminem. But you might want to reconsider using questionable debating practices, since that does rile up intelligent people who don't like sleight-of-hand.

MM:
Still smartin' from the other thread, eh? Well, fable, you can't win 'em all.

[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: EMINEM ]

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 12:45 pm

Originally posted by Happy Evil:
Ahhh, yet another boastful Dwarf.(winks to drinking buddies). Methinks Bordin Steelaxe may have issues with that statement young Thorin. You are a dwarf, right? If so, why do you not profess the creation of steel or ale above all else? Civics? Pa-lease!

Bordin Steelaxe- The Greatest Dwarf Ever?

ohno! alas! golly! gosh! holy smokes! son of a gun! rats!

Bordin may be the greatest dwarf but he was a mortal. I am a god. But did Bordin give you Honda Civics, i think not. He gave you steel and stuff which other dwarves value, but Thorin god gave humans honda civics with cupholders.
Alas for Bordin.

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 12:49 pm

Originally posted by EMINEM:
Still smartin' from the other thread, eh? Well, fable, you can't win 'em all.

You mean the one where you contended that the important founding fathers of the US Constitution deliberately Christianized America? Do you really want me to state each of your factually inaccurate statements, here, plus all the corrections?

Nah. For anyone who's interested, here's the link: [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=001029&p=6"]http://www.gamebanshee.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=001029&p=6[/url] . I do hope you'll try again to justify your views. It was amiable conversation, until you realized you weren't making your points by conventional methods and resorted to slandering.

[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: fable ]

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 12:50 pm

M&M : Do you live in Kansas by any chance. Schools there have stopped teaching evolution. I wonder what those kids are going to do when they grow up? Work at a gas station seems like quite a decent paying job for such uneducated youth, don't you agree?

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 12:53 pm

@fable: the link isn't working. Do you have the correct topic number? Is the thread the "Eminem" one.

EMINEM · Post by **EMINEM** » Thu Aug 30, 2001 12:56 pm

Fable:
I do hope you'll try again to justify your views. It was amiable conversation, until you realized you weren't making your points by conventional methods and resorted to slandering.

MM:
Oh yeah. I haven't stopped beating my wife yet, either.