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[Ravager]

Yeah, I might look into that Time of Troubles stuff, I was always interested in the idea of that when I saw the links of BGII.

*nods* I found most of the Paths of Darkness really boring, but Hunter's Blades wasn't too bad when Drizzt is stripped of all the home comforts. Of course there was a 'good' ending with everyone grtting reunited.

I haven't really read the old stuff, it's hard enough to keep up the newer literature and events in the FR setting.

Have you read any of the others I listed?

[TonyMontana1638]

[QUOTE=Ravager]Yeah, I might look into that Time of Troubles stuff, I was always interested in the idea of that when I saw the links of BGII.

*nods* I found most of the Paths of Darkness really boring, but Hunter's Blades wasn't too bad when Drizzt is stripped of all the home comforts. Of course there was a 'good' ending with everyone grtting reunited.

I haven't really read the old stuff, it's hard enough to keep up the newer literature and events in the FR setting.

Have you read any of the others I listed?[/QUOTE]

You simply must look into it, considering it was probably the most interesting thing, literature-wise, to happen to FR. The series I was talking about was three books :Shadowdale Tantras and Waterdeep, that I would reccomed above anything to read. I remember the titles, just not the name of the series .

I know, I'm so sick of the Happy Endings! Gaah! Why can't Bob just kill someone off!!

I've read at least 30 FR books though most of 'em were older, but as for the ones you've mentioned...
Return of the Archwizards
The Year of Rogue Dragons (the two that have been released)
Every Single Friggin Drizzt book
The Liriel Baenre Series
Best of the Realms

[Ravager]

Oh, I forgot to mention one in my list...Legacy of the Drow, I think that's all but one Drizzt book.
The Icewind Dale trilogy was excellent and included Drizzt...

Yeah, I'll look into those, I think they were going to reprint them so hopefully availability won't be too much of a problem.

Hah! Because there would be lots of murderous fans? :laugh:

[Lestat]

Well the tendency of fantasy authors to make their major characters overpowered and have a happy ending drove me away from general fantasy literature...
Not even the ur-fantasy author, Tolkien, made that mistake.

[Hill-Shatar]

Isn't there a thread on this subject in the FR forum, or am I merely confused?

[Ravager]

I suppose it is difficult to have a recurring major character that ends up dead...unless they're undead of course, but then those aren't generally the Good type that has the lead in most stories.

Well we were discussing FR books right? That wouldn't really fall under Eberron...

[TonyMontana1638]

[QUOTE=Ravager]Oh, I forgot to mention one in my list...Legacy of the Drow, I think that's all but one Drizzt book.
The Icewind Dale trilogy was excellent and included Drizzt...

Yeah, I'll look into those, I think they were going to reprint them so hopefully availability won't be too much of a problem.

Hah! Because there would be lots of murderous fans? :laugh:[/QUOTE]


But you can't be afraid to kill off a character if it might make the series better just because of fans... For example I was sad when I thought Bruenor had died in this most recent series, when that tower collapsed on him, but I was even more pissed off when he made some miraculous recovery because it showed what a wuss Bob is! Your characters, and the series itself, can't grow if you, as a writer, are too scared to take risks!

Definitely look into that series and it's follow-up series (once again I can't remember the name, but the Trial of Cyric the Mad is one of the books). I'd also reccomend what was probably the most famous of the 'original' FR series: Shandril's Saga, The Spellfire Trilogy. Also the Cormyr saga was probably my favorite of all behind the Time of Troubles one: it includes Cormyr, The High Road and Death of the Dragon.

Sorry I know that's alot to absorb but it's rare I get to talk FR with anyone .

[Hill-Shatar]

[QUOTE=Ravager]I suppose it is difficult to have a recurring major character that ends up dead...unless they're undead of course, but then those aren't generally the Good type that has the lead in most stories.

Well we were discussing FR books right? That wouldn't really fall under Eberron... [/QUOTE]

Sorry, I was typing and my mind was wondering a little. I only got out of bed two hours ago at 11 in the morning, so what can you expect?

[Lestat]

Dead is not the only option. Look at the LotR. Frodo ends up damaged in body (loss of a finger), but certainly in mind (the recurrent nightmares) and estranged from the other hobbits.

And bah to you Hill, I don't know anything about Eberron and we're discussing FR & fantasy in general.

[Hill-Shatar]

[QUOTE=Lestat]Dead is not the only option. Look at the LotR. Frodo ends up damaged in body (loss of a finger), but certainly in mind (the recurrent nightmares) and estranged from the other hobbits.

And bah to you Hill, I don't know anything about Eberron and we're discussing FR & fantasy in general. [/QUOTE]

Bah, it was a common mistake. I always somehow think of Eberron when someone brings up FR, and I have no idea why.

[TonyMontana1638]

[QUOTE=Lestat]Dead is not the only option. Look at the LotR. Frodo ends up damaged in body (loss of a finger), but certainly in mind (the recurrent nightmares) and estranged from the other hobbits. [/QUOTE]

Well that's true I didn't mean the death of a favorite character was necessary always, but things need to change in Drizzt's little circle of friends. The best series Bob wrote, from a literary standpoint, was the one that included The Silent Blade (which he won some award for) and Spine of the World (once again I just dont know the series name): there was character growth, and he was at the peak of his powers in making fantastical characters lifelike. Now he just dances around the same topics, giving no real conclusion: Drizzt and Catti-brie, Drizzt being a Drow while CB and Wulfgar age, how in the hell everyone manages to survive every crazy encounter unscathed and bring peace to the land, etc.

... And lets face it, Boromir dying was sad.

[Ravager]

But you can't be afraid to kill off a character if it might make the series better just because of fans... For example I was sad when I thought Bruenor had died in this most recent series, when that tower collapsed on him, but I was even more pissed off when he made some miraculous recovery because it showed what a wuss Bob is! Your characters, and the series itself, can't grow if you, as a writer, are too scared to take risks!

Well, dwarves are supposed to be resilient.
That made little sense to me, one moment Bruenor is deadly unconcious, too close to death even for clerics to help and he wakes up at the pivotal moment to go to war. :laugh:
Didn't it say in the book itself that Bruenor wasn't dead? Even though Drizzt thought it because he found Bruenor's abandoned helm
It happened with Wulfgar too...

Sorry I know that's alot to absorb but it's rare I get to talk FR with anyone .

Heh, I like to get the opportunity too.
It is rare.

The best series Bob wrote, from a literary standpoint, was the one that included The Silent Blade (which he won some award for) and Spine of the World (once again I just dont know the series name)

Paths of Darkness. Origins Award.
I liked that series the least out of the Salvatore books I've read.

[Lestat]

[QUOTE=TonyMontana1638]... And lets face it, Boromir dying was sad. [/QUOTE]Hah, and one of the reproaches of the "serious" litterature critics on Tolkien was that he was to soft on his characters and his portrayal of good and evil too black and white (which ain't true by the way)
They'd better don't delve to deep in the rest of the fantasy genre.

Oh well they can't be all as rough with their characters as Stephen Donaldson.

[TonyMontana1638]

[QUOTE=Ravager]Well, dwarves are supposed to be resilient.
That made little sense to me, one moment Bruenor is deadly unconcious, too close to death even for clerics to help and he wakes up at the pivotal moment to go to war. :laugh:
Didn't it say in the book itself that Bruenor wasn't dead? Even though Drizzt thought it because he found Bruenor's abandoned helm
It happened with Wulfgar too...

Paths of Darkness. Origins Award.
I liked that series the least out of the Salvatore books I've read.[/QUOTE]

I know, that's what I mean... Uh, I'll stop ranting because I know when he comes out with another book I'll buy it but still...

Yup that's the award... You didn't like it? That was definitely my favorite, with the Icewind Dale trilogy a close second...

If I recall, you were the one slade said at HoL walked him through all the gaming... Have you eve D&D'ed a FR campaign before?

[TonyMontana1638]

[QUOTE=Lestat]Hah, and one of the reproaches of the "serious" litterature critics on Tolkien was that he was to soft on his characters and his portrayal of good and evil too black and white (which ain't true by the way)
They'd better don't delve to deep in the rest of the fantasy genre.

Oh well they can't be all as rough with their characters as Stephen Donaldson.[/QUOTE]


Oh well, I think the best way to deal with critics is to not pay attention to them... . I agree with you on both accounts lestat.

And I apologize for my comments about Paths of darkness, because reading back on them they sound kind of arrogant ... I just thought they were the most well-written of his books, but I'm no literary professor (and thank god not a critic ).

[Ravager]

[QUOTE=TonyMontana1638]I know, that's what I mean... Uh, I'll stop ranting because I know when he comes out with another book I'll buy it but still...[/QUOTE]

Heh. Same here.

[QUOTE=TonyMontana1638]Yup that's the award... You didn't like it? That was definitely my favorite, with the Icewind Dale trilogy a close second...[/QUOTE]

No, I just found them long and tedious. Sea of Swords seemed to go on forever. I suppose it's because I prefer a faster pace with action.
The ending was alright it was just the story up to that point.

[QUOTE=TonyMontana1638]If I recall, you were the one slade said at HoL walked him through all the gaming... Have you eve D&D'ed a FR campaign before?[/QUOTE]

Well, most of this D&D stuff I've been involved in over the last couple of months is FR. But nothing so far set in really familiar FR locations, just familiar creatures, religions etc.

[Lestat]

A nice D&D setting is Al-Qadim, sort of Arabian Nights setting with djinni's and such. Its "physical" location is far to the south of the lands that are part of the FR campaign setting.

Atypical is the fact that the culture is the same for all races (though they keep some racial affinities).

[TonyMontana1638]

[QUOTE=Lestat]A nice D&D setting is Al-Qadim, sort of Arabian Nights setting with djinni's and such. Its "physical" location is far to the south of the lands that are part of the FR campaign setting.

Atypical is the fact that the culture is the same for all races (though they keep some racial affinities).[/QUOTE]

Actually that does sound kind of cool, is it fairly well-known or just something your friend made up in his basement?

[Ravager]

I think there are books that provide information on having campaigns in different areas like Sandstorm for any desert based stuff. There's also Stormwrack, I think that's Oceanic.
But as for settings themselves, I've read some of the Eberron stuff and it's good.

[TonyMontana1638]

I'll be back later when my family comes over and I want to get away , but until then I've got to go to church...

Bye to all (for now)