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There's one unfortunate problem with bringing back certain characters: it nullifies whatever choices you made in I and II. If Bastila comes back, then you didn't kill her, which was an option. If Carth returns, you didn't strand him on the Rakatan homeworld or kill him on the Starforge. Of course, if you choose that Revan was a Jedi male, you still see Bastila in the second one, regardless of if you killed her or not as a Jedi. That's why certain characters only return in KotOR II, and only some of those characters will join your party: those return party members (HK-47, T3, Canderous) don't get affected by the choices you made in the first game, and can 100% be in the game no matter how you said Revan ended up. Everyone else is a maybe, and if they start showing up in KotOR III, it destroys any chance of free will in the games. So they should stay gone, especially as party members; if they must return, let them have small roles like they did in KotOR II and just appear briefly.

As your party members go, so goes Revan's alignment. Having him/her back would just spoil and complicate the game. I keep saying this, but frankly I think Revan's dead. The exile probably will be, too. Fresh start, new Jedi, new party members, new planets, etc. I always understood why people don't want Revan back, but bringing Revan back just complicates things. If Revan has to return, it's likely s/he'll be wearing a mask and just be some kind of NPC that won't join your party. Maybe you'll just get quests from him/her, but that's as far as it need go.

I've said this before, and it got mixed reactions, but frankly I think the PC in the III game shouldn't be a Jedi. Maybe they can support the Jedi, and have Jedi in their party--maybe later in the game--but instead of being the sole savior of the galaxy (something that's just over-done, everyone's always *the* one person who can save the world, and it's boring; look at most American movies and you'll see what I mean: most ads for movies will bring up some problem and then say it's now up to "one man" to fix it), you help someone else save it. You're put in Carth's or Atton's shoes, and you're the sidekick to some of the most powerful Jedi in the new Order as they prepare to fight the True Sith. Maybe--maybe--eventually you get someone like Revan or the Exile in your party, but then they have to be attired like Mandalore, Visas, or Kreia were so you can't entirely see them (to hide what gender they are and what they look like so they don't conflict with our earlier versions of them in the old games). Maybe you get a choice between Revan or the Exile, depending on your "alignment," although this time it's more what good/bad things you've done, not which side of the Force you're on; or you could get both, but that would kill a lot of fun having two uber-powerful Jedi with you. Which is why I prefer they not come back as party members anyway.

we all know mandolore was a man by his voice and all mandolorians are males

[QUOTE=RenegadeXan]we all know mandolore was a man by his voice and all mandolorians are males[/QUOTE]

What about Mira? She was technically a Mandalorian?

The problems with bringing Revan and Bastila back in the third KOTOR have been nicely summarised by most people in this thread: continuity is the issue. However, if one considers the actual plots of KOTOR I and II, a DS ending to the first renders the second KOTOR pointless as the Sith would rule the galaxy, there would be no more Republic and Revan would have just steam-rolled the True Sith. In that sense, the canonical endings to the games are the ones the 'main' plot are generally based around. IMHO.

So, if we look at it, a LS character would have redeemed Bastila at the end of the first and then disappeared in the period before KOTOR II leaving Bastila, Carth et al. safeguarding the galaxy and T3 traipsing around looking for anybody who will help. At a guess, HK-47's memoery loss in the second installment is very similar to the issue he suffered from in the first... it sounds like he was sent somewhere to do something and was demolished as a result (his assassination persona is deleted before going on operations and is reinstated upon returning to his master - Revan...). Canderous was hell-bent on following Revan for his own personal redemption that he was mortified when he just disappeared... so in an effort to continue down the path he set for himself, reformed the Mandalorians. Juhani/Jolee/Mission and Zaalbar must be somewhere but we have no idea what happened to them.

As such, we see Carth asking the Exile to pass Revan a message if he ever finds him and Bastila wondering if she'll ever see him again or something (I can't remember)... so. Mira/Atton/Handmaidon and Bao-Dur are all supposedly the 'lost Jedi' who are the last hope for the Order, as such, and are tasked with reforming it. Visas goes off to find her homeworld, etc., etc. and HK-47 winds up kicking "the fat one's" posterior. Where to go for the third, as a playable (if not wholly realistic) game?

I'd guess that you start the game under the instruction of Handmaiden as a Padawan on Dantooine, who finds that she is unable to complete your training as she feels she lacks the knowledge you seek (as somebody who is predicatbly ferociously strong in the Force). As a child, you knew Revan as you came from the same world as he did and know a fair bit about him - althoguh, you're ten years younger than he is. Therefore, off you go to find Master Bastila who is off saving some planet from an apparent insurgency. Whilst turning the tide of the final climatic battle or something, Bastila mentions that you remind her of Revan. Who is Revan, you ask... and then Bastila tells Handmaiden, Bao-Dur, Atton, Mira, etc. to hold the fort whilst she goes off to "complete your training' in the Unknown Regions, looking for the Exile and Revan. However, what she doesn't realise is that the Exile and Revan found each other and have in fact returned to Known Space chasing the insidious True Sith who have decided they cannot conquer the galaxy by force of arms and must help it self-destruct. Sound familiar? Rrobably because the entire Star Wars saga is based upon this idea (especially the expanded universe books).

I think ti's all well and good talking about what you would like to happen in the third installment, but I think we have to look at it from the developer's point of view: what will work? What won't? I've done my best, given two minutes' thought and churned out the rubbish above. Roll on KOTOR III. And hurry up about it.

Obsidian

I must agree that no matter what/how we feel about KOTOR III's particulars, it's all in the eye of the beholder. As of right now, Obsidian is the beholder, and what will happen is undoubtedly going to be very different then what a lot of us think should happen. The developers will indeed do what is feasible. The only difference between many of us is, some of us feel that bringing our uber characters back is not feasible. This is where I disagree, because there are many things that can be done to compromise the Force. It is just a shame that we have to rely on Obsidian rather than Bioware.

[QUOTE=RenegadeXan]we all know mandolore was a man by his voice and all mandolorians are males[/QUOTE]
That's true. However, we DON'T know which Sith troops are male and female, as they don't hesitate to recruit both genders. And those troops we do hear speak have their voices scrambled. Such a thing wouldn't be too hard to do to Revan and the Exile if they had to show up in game 3.

[QUOTE=Kaja Sinis]because there are many things that can be done to compromise the Force.[/QUOTE]
As long as it isn't another memory loss issue; most gamers seem to be sick to death of that idea. If Kreia had succeeded in creating her echo and deafening all Force users to the Force, the struggle to overcome the echo and regain power over the Force might work. Although, I've been toying with this one idea, and I guess I'll say it now. I've mentioned in two threads now how I don't think Kreia killed the Jedi masters on Dantooine; she balked at killing random people, but preferred you examine the options before you carefully and choose the threads to pull at. She also cautioned you about how to best an enemy: it was better to make one see through your own eyes than to close theirs forever. When she ripped the Force from the masters on Dantooine, she didn't kill them, even though that's the impression we get. If you examine their corpses after she attacks them, you get that message about how they seem worse than dead, how they feel empty in the Force or some such. That's probably exactly how the Exile felt to them when s/he first approached the Council on Coruscant. So, maybe the three Jedi are still alive. If so, maybe the third game will be all about THEM and THEIR quest to regain their connection to the Force. If we go with the canonistic ending, which seems to look like where the trilogy is going, then the Exile won't have killed the Masters. So then if the third game winds up being about those three, they're probably who we have to play as: Vrook as the Jedi Master, Kavar as the Guardian, and the one with the weird name as a Sentinel.

or why don't you just be a typical game developer and say
'wow, i'm wasting my time here, why don't i just say stuff the whole lot of them and let the main character have a sex change?'

Um, If I may say, if you guys are so set on having revan back, than maybe anyone looking through this thread should also check out the thread about honest answers everone. The arguments that went on there turned from wheteher having him back is a good or bad idead, but if it is worth it or even possible in some cases. Maybe to understand why people are set against it you should check it out.


http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/showt ... hp?t=62338

I dont think u could have revan back as him because at the end of the forst kotor it was annouchend tht the pc revan (as dark anyway) is invinsible however u could have like child versions of revan and bastilla or if female reven in kotor, child force sensitive carth as well as a female revan bearing in mind tht if u made this game 10 yrs after the events of kotor2 u could meet the ds exile on malachor on the way to following there father/mother's path to the dark side this could also incorperate the popular padawan idea.

ps if u want to comment on this idea please pm me as im going on holiday tomoz and wont be one till next saturday

*edited*

@Valper: stay on topic. This thread is about the way one would want the two characters mentioned in the thread title to return in a possible KoTOR 3.

I think NightHawk is right (who doesn't), but I think Revan should be main character again. And a romance, of course with her. Mission should be back also. The storyline should be as strong as I, the character options as II, the side-quests as in I, the graphics as in HL2 (or Oblivion, yet to come) and a wider variety of species. Also, environments should be bigger... So I did my nagging for today.

How would you bring back Revan? Isnt that kind of difficult to accomplish, considering the huge amounts of variables, from what the charatcer loks like, to if he ls to ds, fell or repented, ect, ect. I wouldnt mind seeing him as an NPC though. (albeit one you rarely see or dont see)

I want Revan back as the main character, not simply because I enjoyed the first one or I think he's cool, but because it would bring closure to the series. Some people are saying it won't be as fun because you already know the character, the story would suck, etc. But if you watched Return of the Jedi the only secret(that I can think of right now) that was revealed was that Leia was Luke's sister. Other than that you knew the characters, knew what happened to them in the past two movies, knew tons of crap about them. Did that stop the movie from having a good plot? No. The worst part of the movie was the part with the Ewoks, and that was not related to the characters at all. Now I ask you, "What would Return of the Jedi have been like if Luke, Han and Leia were not Main characters and you saw them only a little bit in the movie?" I'll tell you what I think, I think it would have sucked. My point in all this is that what drew me to KOTOR in the first place was the storyline, and if the story behind the game sucks, the game sucks. Some people say that if Revan is the main character the story will suck, but I say that if he is not the main focus of the game then the story will suck. Let the programmers and writers and people working on it decide how it will be workable, what the story will be (though I hope it involves the True Sith), and what to do with all the variables with Revan. But I know that Revan has to be a major player in the game or else it just will not be the same.

@Turambar

So what you are saying is that Kotor II sucked because it didn't have all the same main characters as Kotor I did. Your also saying that Episodes 1 through 3 sucked because Anakin, Padme, and Obi-Wan were the main characters and Luke, Leia, and Han weren't. A 2 hour movie that you watch and a 25+ hour game that you play are two different things. To say that the games should be like the movies is like saying apples should be oranges. The game needs a new main character, they can bring Revan back, but not as the main character.

I just don't understand why you think that leaving everything the same as the last game would make it better.

They will most likely come up with another main character with the same "mind swept" story as the last two.

One idea that i always thought would work really well for the game is if the main character was a clone of a jedi who died. It would explain your jedi traning and how others knew you before you even knew their name. I don't know if it is just me but in Kotor II when Bao-Dur called you general and told you all that stuff about how he knew you in the mandalorian wars, it was a little akward because i didn't even feel like I knew my main character let alone some guy who says i knew him. It would also work well as a twist like when you found out you were Revan in Kotor I.

But i guess we'll just have to wait for Kotor III to come out before we will know what it is really going to be like.

another mind swept charatcer? That is getting a little repetitive. And in any case, revan will have to come back in some way, if not meeting him in person, than maybe some other way. He plays a role similar to Darth Vader (as much as I HATE comparing the movies to the games), in that too much already revolves around him and what has been done. It doesnt matter if you want nothing to do with Revan. He has to have some impact on the game we play because of what impact he had on the galaxy.

In any case, Id be happy if he came back as an NPC as I already said but not happy if he came back as a playable charatcer.

I'm kind of tired of people wanting some big, dramatic twist or epiphany in the game. We don't need some dramatic turn of events, some piece of knoweldge, some big secret to make a game good. Hell, that's mostly why I chose my current sig: Kreia completely shoots you down as far as some kind of revelation is concerned. It was fine in KotOR I, if it was a tad predictable to some, but we don't need a twist like that in every game. How many were in the original Star Wars movies, since comparing the games to the movies is the thing right now? One. People act like there should be one in every KotOR game. We had our one. The third game shouldn't need some mind-boggling revelation, just concentrate on the story at hand.

There were pleanty of twist in the original Star Wars movies. You find out that Darth Vader is Lukes Father. You find out that Leia is Lukes sister. Han get Frozen in carbinite. Darth Vader is the one who kills the Emperor. And there are many smaller but still important dramatic twists in the movies. But again, you can't compare the movies to the game, it doesn't work.

The whole dramatic twist about you being Revan in Kotor I is what made the game, gave it it's Game Of The Year Award, made this part of the forum possible, because with out it Kotor would have just been another semi-good game with out a sequel. Not to say that there has to be something as big as that, but there has to be something. Drama is what makes games, without it they would all just be blah.

Kotor II wasn't as great as the Kotor I almost for the soul fact that there was no big twist, there were also little things like bugs and that the whole game was incomplete in it's self, but the main thing was that the story died because it didn't have a twist to fall back on.

Kotor III must concentrate on the story at hand, yes, but it also needs something to make that story a little more interesting, other wise you feel like you know everything already.

YES! Another person who thinks that you shouldnt compare the movies to the games.

And I agree with Klipsh, that there probably should be a twist, but not as large as the ones in the past. Im not interested in being the person who saves the republic, but turns out I wanted to destroy it, or being a hole in the force that may destroy it. Cant we have a few nice, small twists. the game will still be interesting without having to change the reasons you are doing things every single time an event pops up.

Very simple :

As most of the hardcore fans of KoTOR, they own I&II. What you can do, is to "load" the properties of Revan out of one of those save games, and use them in III. Then, the story should be like this:

You are a young adventurer who has heard of the greatness of Revan, and start to look for him. Slowly but surely you come on the track of the KoTORII main figure, and then you find Revan somewhere in the game, with Bastila.

Just as in II, you chose what he has done. If you're dark and he is as well, you live happily ever after as crewmates and fight the Republic and defeat them once and for all. If you are light and he is as well, you, Bastila (his wife, maybe a kid, that would be cool but then you got already 3 crewmates filled up, that would be kind of boring since they are quite te same) and Revan will finish the Sith.

Then, Revan takes over again, since you are but a young soldier/scout/scoundrel.

The jedi-training system was a very good improvement in II, that really needs to get back.

The influence system, however, should be maintained a little bit. Maybe influence with NPC's (like in Morrowind, by bribing them or whatsoever ). The characters should be, according to me:

- Revan
- Bastila
- You in the start
- a Twi'lek
- a Droid (I really liked HK-47 because of his hate against all other humans and his funny things)
- a Wookie
- a Pilot again (maybe Carth, maybe Atton. Both of them were fine, Atton was a bit more refined with his bonuses he offered but Carth had a good side-quest

And some more characters, a variety of species would be nice. You would need one on this planet because he knows a person/a language.

Also, very, very, very, very good were the side-quests of the persons. It made the game more in-depth, and I felt really good after completing them. The stories of Canderous were interesting.

The "terminal-planet system" as on Taris was great.

Worlds should be a lot bigger, you can see a whole planet but you're in but one friggin' city. The desert on Tatooine was goooood. But, some more things there should be good.

In my opinion:
The storyline should be like-wise part I
The characters should be a mixture
The character side-quests should be back
Revan, Bastila and Carth should be back in action again.
The Romance should be more in-depth (So the game is not only kill and lightsaber-throws, but also a bit calm )
The jedi-training system was cool, but on some very hard (Bao-Dur) and on some very easy (Handmaiden, Atton)
The influence system was cool, but should also have a bit more perspective (for example, crewmembers can like eachother, or just characters you walk into like/don't like/hate/love you)

As I see everything, let's mail LucasArts and make those guys clear that Revan and Bastila belong to KoTOR!

[QUOTE=hill1]YES! Another person who thinks that you shouldnt compare the movies to the games. [/QUOTE]

Of course, you shouldn't do that. For starters, the movies take place a lot later then this storyline.

Also I agree, a nice plot-twist in KoTORIII should be very, very nice. That the Jedi-council did something that is gruesome, for instance killing a whole bunch of jedi, just because they didn't agree with the orthodox Jedi learning methodes and therefore they were seen as Sith. Or Czerka could play a big role in the new game. A full going on war on a planet, just as you enter would be cool.

Is there even some fact known about the release of KoTORIII??? I really hope Bioware will do it, since that game that was for the XboX ruled, god I don't remember the name, but it was a real hype. Also there, a very cool plot twist happened. Your master was the killer, or something like that...