Your thoughts on Jade Empire?

Soulforged · Post by **Soulforged** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:46 pm

***THERE WILL BE SOME SPOILERS HERE***

Many things have already been said about the many elements on this game. To summarize my view on this elements:
Gameplay: Poor, it tries to implement a SPR (scissors, paper, rock) system, wich is not fun compatible with an action RPG, it's not as dumb as Diablo, but it becomes a button masher on most occassions. One companion at the time is becoming annoying, apparently Bioware is going to do the same on Mass Effect. Also the Good - Evil mechanic felt analogue to the one on KOTOR, just dumbed down because it doesn't have much more substantial effect on the outcome.
Graphics: The graphics are at par with the games of the time, they're good and it's one of those games in wich bloom really brings things to life.
Design: One of the bests I've ever seen, from the characters to the scenery. The only point in wich it fails is on the underused lethal scenary, wich is great on the first fight by the beach, as an example, but later disappears totally or is underused. The breakable scenary is great during fights, and more of it would have been even greater. The whole backgroud history Bioware has created is pretty good, kudos to that.
Plot: The plot starts cheesy, and continues pretty cheesy with some good interludiums on Tien's Landing, but most of it is cheesy. The ending, wich feels rushed, is a proposterous cheap shot. And this is the main rollereyes feature of the game, forget combat and dialog. The game could have ended as an average cheesy RPG with you killing the Emperor, instead your old master all of the sudden decides to betray you, it feels arbitrary, and it's clearly an ad-hoc device to advance the plot without any real sense of coherence. Really I fail to see how this game has a good story at all specially considering the last portions...
Dialog: The dialog is rounded to medium. There's points in wich it stands out at the hights of Vampire Bloodlines or Fallout, and then there's times in wich not even a 5 year old could withstand the temptation of rolling his eyes. At best the dialog is pretty cheesy, at worst it's proposterous, following the declining of the plot it gives you an arbitrary ridiculous ending in wich you CHOOSE to be killed, my only reaction to that was: :speech:--- Really there was no need for that.
Replay: Two times as best, if you like to see all the possible ways to end some mission, but you can also save and replay that save if you want (considering that there isn't lasting effects for your actions on previous iterances and the endings are totally arbitrary and disconnected). So there isn't much replay value unless you give some consideration to the other cheap shot that is unlockable content on an RPG game, including Jade Master difficulty.

Pooeypants · Post by **Pooeypants** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:34 am

The graphics were an insult, even though they claimed to have updated hundreds of textures for the PC, I have yet to see the evidence for it. Most notably, the character faces on most of the NPCs are very poor and badly pixellated in some cases. Now, seeing as this is an RPG of sorts, there is a good amount of dialogue and camera focuses on the face it seems that they've really dropped the ball on that. I mean, just look at Neverwinter Nights 2, not the best looking game in the world as it's just an upgrade of their old engine but the attention to detail on some of their NPC's faces are astounding and helps to immerse the player.
Frankly, I'm amazed it took 2 years to push this out on to the PC (though it's not as bad as the atrocious Halo 2 for the PC).

Domi_Ash · Post by **Domi_Ash** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:47 am

Uhm, what resolution you are running it with? On my system, JE looks stunning, with beautiful smooth facial graphics. It's NWN2 character graphics that lacks, imo, with some "sharp corners" still remaining from the NWN1/KOTOR times. Ammon Jerro's eyes that roll to an 'empty' space look particulary disturbing. I think I have a high-end system with very high resolution. (Don't ask me for numbers).

Anyway, I find JE's graphics superior to NWN2 where the characters are concerned, with area graphics being aboutthe same, but JE taking the cake for the originality. We just made it to the Lord Lao's furnace, and I really love all the details in that area. The artwork in JE actually has a certain style, which I do consider superior to the generic NWN2 environments. About the only graphic deficiency I noticed, is that you can walk through some characters and some characters merge into the walls. It looks unsettling.

The story so far has been wonderful (we made it to the Imperial City, so I am trying not to read the spoilers, sorry, and can only judge on what I have seen) and quite immersive. Character dialogue still sparkles. We for example just ran into a city guard who speaks about the Lotus Assassins taking over every serious case with a very understandable grudge; the Lotus Assassin doing propaganda on the Scourge of the South was brilliant and very funny; a lovely bun-makers couple had entertaining value, though the lady sounded far too old for her avatar, but the dialogue rang very true.

I dunno, so far I am almost salivating over every 'not filler' dialogue we see. It's brilliant, and exactly how I'd have liked to write dialogue, if I was not an unfortunate ESL.

Pooeypants · Post by **Pooeypants** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:55 pm

You must be joking. I'm running this game on 1280x1024 with an 8800GTS and NWN2 looks far better than Jade Empire at any point of the game. In NWN2, the faces actually have bump mapping (as do their body and armour)! With JE, it's just flat and pixellated!

Domi_Ash · Post by **Domi_Ash** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:58 pm

I am not joking. To my eye, JE looks far better than NWN. But then again, I never liked NWN2 character models, with their way too sharp corners. It's better than NWN1, but imo insufficiently so. And the cloaks, ye gods. They look really bad. But nope, I see no pixelation on JE faces at all.

DesR85 · Post by **DesR85** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:37 am

Pooeypants wrote:You must be joking. I'm running this game on 1280x1024 with an 8800GTS and NWN2 looks far better than Jade Empire at any point of the game. In NWN2, the faces actually have bump mapping (as do their body and armour)! With JE, it's just flat and pixellated!

In terms of graphics, of course Neverwinter Nights 2 look better than Jade Empire. Neverwinter Nights 2 was released late last year whereas Jade Empire came out in 2005 (the XBox version, that is. The PC version just added some extra lighting to improve the visuals).

But I do agree with Domi Ash regarding the character models in Neverwinter Nights 2. Take for example the character faces. When you look at their faces, it looked very unnatural. Almost like they're are made of porcelain or something. The faces in Jade Empire looked a lot more natural and even better than Neverwinter Nights 2. Sure, it lack the sort of details that you'll expect from any game released this year but it sure look good to me.

Domi_Ash · Post by **Domi_Ash** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:39 am

Heh, moving away from graphics, I was just making a point at another board, to people complaining how current games are all so bad and boring. Honestly, they should try JE. The writing, oh my dear god, the writing! The Scholar's Garden and the debate with Sir Rodrick is gotta be one of the best sequences I have seen in the games I played. Thoroughly enjoyable and smashingly good. I do concede that the follow-up with the Minsiter was low-brow, but hey, it seemed to enetertain my hubby immencely!

darkpark · Post by **darkpark** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:12 am

Just five minutes ago, I couldn't uninstall Jaded Empire fast enough. The graphics are pretty and good enough except for the character models. Their limbs look malformed. I love the music!!!

What I didn't like.... errr what I hated about this game is the combat and the very poor control, in my opinion. I didn't like being locked onto a single enemy, not being able to look up or down, getting frequently corned by several enemies, and too much button mashing.

This was my second attempt to try to get to like this game, but I just couldn't do it. The first time I played I made into the village of Tien's Landing and today I made it upto Tien's Landing.

So... I'll either be microwaving the DVD or giving it to a friend. I'm not blaming the game. It's just not my style.

Minalkali · Post by **Minalkali** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:10 am

darkpark wrote:Just five minutes ago, I couldn't uninstall Jaded Empire fast enough. The graphics are pretty and good enough except for the character models. Their limbs look malformed. I love the music!!!
What I didn't like.... errr what I hated about this game is the combat and the very poor control, in my opinion. I didn't like being locked onto a single enemy, not being able to look up or down, getting frequently corned by several enemies, and too much button mashing.

This was my second attempt to try to get to like this game, but I just couldn't do it. The first time I played I made into the village of Tien's Landing and today I made it upto Tien's Landing.

So... I'll either be microwaving the DVD or giving it to a friend. I'm not blaming the game. It's just not my style.

If you get backed into corners you can always double tap a movement key and do a flip. There's also a button that makes you have no target. I'll agree that there is a bit too much button mashing, but that's why harmonic combos are so much fun! For a while.

I actually just finished playing it again, and I have to say it is a great game, the only problem being the pacing. You spend way too much time in Tien's Landing and not nearly enough in the Imperial City.

Really looking forward to JE2 though, I wonder how they're gonna pull that off, coz I can't see many of the original characters returning regardless of which ending you pick.

Shrap · Post by **Shrap** » Mon May 19, 2008 7:50 am

Sorry but this is what happens when you make an RPG for console then port to PC - and not vice versa. Game felt extremely 'lite' - from the way you move around, to the very linear paths, to the 'pick your type' character as opposed to real character customization you find in PC RPGs. Lot of detail in graphics, but almost no interaction with the environment (couple caskests here, some chests there). I wont hold this against BioWare as when you make RPG for console you are catering to a much less demanding market and eye candy is the norm, but when I went from intro to chapter 2 in 1 hr, I mean come on.
Also, way way WAY too much talking. Yes, PCs have sound cards - not a new technology - why am I listening to this game instead of playing it? I can watch TV for this. There is storyline- and there is fluff -and I think BioWare believes that by making people listen to a lot of voice acting, that they have made a great game for console. This is Jade Empire to me:
(TalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalk) Fight 4 mobs, loot 8 items (TalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalk) End of chapter.

Repeat until game over.

Ok so in summary:
RPGs need items and loot, not the entire history of some fake land no one knows or cares about.
Leave the Angel or Devil crap for KOTOR, how many times can you try and exploit the same system so blatantly?
There is more but this is what's been clapping me across the face since I started playing this.
I seriously doubt I'll be ordering Mass Effect now, since this was console to PC port as well (and no doubt just as watered down and made for simpletons)

DesR85 · Post by **DesR85** » Mon May 19, 2008 8:13 am

Shrap wrote:Also, way way WAY too much talking. Yes, PCs have sound cards - not a new technology - why am I listening to this game instead of playing it? I can watch TV for this. There is storyline- and there is fluff -and I think BioWare believes that by making people listen to a lot of voice acting, that they have made a great game for console. This is Jade Empire to me:
(TalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalk) Fight 4 mobs, loot 8 items (TalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalkTalk) End of chapter.

That is actually one of my beefs with not only Jade Empire but with both KOTORs as well. Bioware's trend of focusing on long dialogue filled with lots of pointless sentences, if you ask me. I really wished that they'd hire a much better scriptwriter.

IamNorthwind · Post by **IamNorthwind** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:27 pm

I have yet to play it fully, however I just spent about 15 minutes messing around in that initial village...And I must say that my first impression was WOW. The developers did their research...The little npcs practicing their martial art are doing LEGIT stuff...One guy is doing a basic Shaolin exercise, and two people in a gazebo are playing Yang style Taijiquan. I am into traditional Chinese martial arts, so seeing this was happy happy joy joy for sure.

Domi_Ash · Post by **Domi_Ash** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:45 pm

RPGs need items and loot, not the entire history of some fake land no one knows or cares about.

Uhm, no? CRPGs are about story and interactions, not about looting. And you are critical of console users. Yakes. If it takes consoles to bring really good and abundunt dialogues into CRPGs, I sure wish they do console ports every time! The more dialogues, the merrier (and less loot; loot is boooring.)

Curry · Post by **Curry** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:24 pm

Shrap wrote: RPGs need items and loot, not the entire history of some fake land no one knows or cares about.

Nah, that's not what RPGs are about. You just described a typical Action RPG

Revans mask · Post by **Revans mask** » Thu May 28, 2009 6:30 pm

My review of Jade Empire

Jade Empire is a amazing game, I fell in love with the game a couple of days after figuring out the combat system. The characters are amazing and so are the gender stats. The air plane game quests where some what of a let down to me. You go from a amazing inriched background to a 3rd person shotter thinking, "Is this a joke".

Other than that, I only wish that the game would have allowed me to go back to the Jade Empire and run around a bit afther beating the game.

{If a Jade Empire two comes out, im buying it}

ifcwdjd · Post by **ifcwdjd** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:51 pm

Overall the game is very cool, the graphics are stunning, and areas that are supposed to be creepy (Great Southern Forest, old Tien's Landing, etc) are effectively so, and the music is great. I've played it several times, and wouldn't have a problem playing it several more. But there are a lot of gripes, mostly in the gameplay and character control.

I think the TOO MUCH DIALOGUE thing has been covered thoroughly already. They should have instead just made straight cut scenes, and let your actions define how good or evil you are, rather than what dialogue path you choose.

The fighting is good, and I like the variety of magic styles, laying on those powered attacks (like petrifying in Stone Immortal) is just plain good fun. But, yeh, I also felt there were too many useless styles, especially the support styles. I never use them, I have no idea how to complete a harmonic combo, whatever that is, and I don't care. Most of the time I just flip over people and sucker punch them to win a fight.

I don't know if anyone has ever noticed, but free target mode is worthless. You can only seem to attack in one direction, often missing enemies completely, and you'll keep slashing forever until your character finally turns around. And even when you're locked onto someone, sometimes they're at the other end of the room while all the other enemies are right next to you beating the snot out of you. Sure you can toggle between targets, and you can still hit them if they're in your path, but ugh, it is just annoying.

The levels of difficulty in the actual fighting during the game are okay, but some of the flyer levels are crazy. This is mostly in regard to the extra missions tied into Hin Goo and Lord Lao's furnace, I couldn't imagine playing them on normal or hard, they're already next to impossible on easy, and the reward you get isn't really worth all the anger and frustration. At least they're optional. But it is a shame because these are really the only side quests you get, and they're bloody hard, much more so than the rest of the game.