Q&A on Christianity

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Wed Apr 17, 2002 10:25 pm

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
@SailorS, nael, Aaragon et al wasn't this eminems thread on Q&A

@Eminem, why are there over 2000 denominations of the Christian church?

I'm answering questions for the same reason that there are so many denominations within the Christian Religion. Exact interpretations of things vary from denomination to denomination, from church to church, and from person to person. Eminem cannot even come close to representing the majority of Christians on everything. With several of us answering, we show the different opinions on certain things and also show how we agree on other things, thus giving those who are asking the questions a better idea of what Christians believe.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Wed Apr 17, 2002 11:32 pm

Originally posted by EMINEM
The fact that the KJV is more widely used doesn't necessarily mean it's the most accurate translation available. Don't get me wrong. Second to Shakespeare's tragedies, I think the KJV is England's greatest literary achievment. IMO, the most accurate translation is the New American Standard Version, published in the early 20th Century. Consider one example: The KJV translates the sixth commandment as "Thou shalt not kill." The NASV translates the sixth commandment as "Thou shalt not murder." There is a difference between the act of killing, and the act of murder, and I think the NASV better represents the original Hebrew construction since not all killing (killing in self-defense for example) can be construed as sinful.

I have to agree to some extent because the NAS is a more literal translation. However, the translation I recommend is the New Living Translation. The NLT is a very easy to read version and easy to comprehend.

frogus · Post by **frogus** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 1:00 am

what does one have to do, or believe, to be a Christian?

I just ask because of the trend among white English people and I suspect western Europeans and maybe even americans to view Christianity as a kind of default option. If someone doesn't really have any religion at all, but are white and of European descent, it is safe for them to just say 'err...I'm a christian'. So is one really a christian just if one says one is? What do you have to do?

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 1:18 am

Originally posted by frogus
what does one have to do, or believe, to be a Christian?

I just ask because of the trend among white English people and I suspect western Europeans and maybe even americans to view Christianity as a kind of default option. If someone doesn't really have any religion at all, but are white and of European descent, it is safe for them to just say 'err...I'm a christian'. So is one really a christian just if one says one is? What do you have to do?

To be a Christian you must realize your'e a sinner, believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins and rose from the dead 3 days later, and accept Jesus Christ into your heart as your savior. God offers us the gift of salvation, but we must accept that gift. It's just like when someone gives you a birthday gift. If you refuse to accept the gift, you'll never actually recieve it, no matter how hard they try to give it to you.

Note: There are those who claim to be Christian but specifically do no believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and refuse to believe he rose from the dead. These people are, technically, part of the Christian religion, but they are not part of Christianity.

VoodooDali · Post by **VoodooDali** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 1:24 pm

Who is a Christian?

The answer is different depending upon the denomination.

Conservative Protestant: A person becomes a Christian through being "saved"--by being born again. A necessary pre-requisite to salvation is normally to repent of one's sins, and trust Jesus as Lord and Savior.

Roman Catholic: A person becomes a Christian through the sacrament of baptism.

The Christian Church (Disciples of Christ): A person joins the denomination by concurring with a statement of faith. Dr. Kenneth Teegarden, General Minister and President Emeritus of the denomination explains: "Standing before a congregation of Disciples to confess faith in Jesus Christ and become part of the church, a person is asked only one question. It is usually phrased, 'Do you believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, and do you accept him as your personal Savior?' " By answering in the affirmative, the person becomes a member of the Disciples of Christ., and thereby also of "The universal church."

The Apostle's Creed: (I knew it as the Nicene Creed) Widely accepted in most Christian denominations except Eastern Orthodox. A common variation: "I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. On the third day he rose again. He ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen."

Michael Martin, after studying Christianity from the point of view of a philosopher, prepared various definitions of "Christian:"
Basic Christian: "Person P is a Basic Christian if and only if P believes that a theistic God exists, that Jesus lived at the time of Pilate, that Jesus is the Incarnation of God, that one is saved through faith in Jesus, and that Jesus is the model of ethical behavior."
Orthodox Christian (meaning a traditional Christian, not necessarily a member of an Eastern Orthodox church): "Person P is an Orthodox Christian if and only if P is a Basic Christian and P believes in the Trinity, the Virgin Birth, the Crucifixion [ordered] by Pilate, the Resurrection, and the Second Coming."
Liberal Christian: Person P is a liberal Christian if they believe in "a theistic God, ...Jesus as a model of ethical behavior, ...[and] the historicity of Jesus."
Extreme Liberal Christian: Person P is an extreme liberal Christian if they believe in "Jesus as a model of ethical behavior..." Presumably, an extreme liberal Christian could also be an Agnostic, Atheist or Humanist. 10

Which definition is correct?
This question assumes that there is one and only one "correct" definition of the term "Christian." However, depending upon your understanding of the nature of truth, all of the above definitions may be "true:"

To conservative Protestants, a Christian is often defined according to their salvation status. Their definition is "true" to them, because it agrees with some of their foundational beliefs: that the Bible is inerrant, that salvation is by grace, and that one must be "born-again" to avoid eternal punishment in Hell.
To Roman Catholics, a Christian is often defined according to their baptism status. Their definition is "true" to them, because it agrees with their fundamental beliefs, including their understanding of the Bible, the declarations of many Church Councils, the statements of many popes, and their church's tradition.
To the early Christian movement, a Christian was defined as a person who was baptized and proclaimed "Jesus is Lord." Their definition was "true" to them because it agreed with their understanding of their religious belief at a time when the Christian Scriptures (New Testament) had not yet been assembled.
And so on, with the remaining definitions.

Each group has their own definition of "Christian" which agrees with their own initial assumptions about the nature of Jesus, God, church tradition, written text, evolved theology, etc. There appears to be no way to compromise on a single definition that is acceptable to all. One apparently cannot call on a higher power to resolve the problem, because there seems to be no way to assess the will of God on such matters. If there were such a method, then the problem would have been settled centuries ago. People would simply have prayed to God and asked Him to define what a Christian is. Then, a consensus would exist today on the true meaning of the word "Christian."

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 1:40 pm

Originally posted by VoodooDali
One apparently cannot call on a higher power to resolve the problem, because there seems to be no way to assess the will of God on such matters. If there were such a method, then the problem would have been settled centuries ago. People would simply have prayed to God and asked Him to define what a Christian is. Then, a consensus would exist today on the true meaning of the word "Christian."

Who's to say no one has done this? IIRC, the Catholics believe that the Pope is the one who would have the authority of God to define the word "Christian." However, as a protestant, I don't really care what the Pope says. And from there, even if people prayed to God and asked him to define the word "Christian" there would come forth varied interpretations of the definition given by God. Also, there would be those who would claim that the person relaying God's definition did not really recieve the knowledge from God but that they merely made something up to fit what they want Christians to be.

However, if you want to know the true meaning of the word "Christian," i can tell you.

The word literally means "Christ-like."

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 3:43 pm

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn

I'm answering questions for the same reason that there are so many denominations within the Christian Religion. Exact interpretations of things vary from denomination to denomination, from church to church, and from person to person. Eminem cannot even come close to representing the majority of Christians on everything. With several of us answering, we show the different opinions on certain things and also show how we agree on other things, thus giving those who are asking the questions a better idea of what Christians believe.

I was just kidding, but you raise an interesting point the Bible is supposed to be exactly what God inteded it to be how come can no one agree on it's contents and how many of the other denominations are correct and/or relevant....i am not trying to poo poo Christianity as a whole it is just something that never made any sense to me.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 3:54 pm

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
I was just kidding, but you raise an interesting point the Bible is supposed to be exactly what God inteded it to be how come can no one agree on it's contents and how many of the other denominations are correct and/or relevant....i am not trying to poo poo Christianity as a whole it is just something that never made any sense to me.

It's because, while God and the Bible are infallible, humans are not.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 4:03 pm

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn
It's because, while God and the Bible are infallible, humans are not.

*smile* i thought you might say that

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 4:11 pm

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn
It's because, while God and the Bible are infallible, humans are not.

I just noticed something...odd. http://www.dictionary.com lists one of the definitions of "infallible" as "Roman Catholic Church. Incapable of error in expounding doctrine on faith or morals." That listing is coming out of the The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. If I had one of those dictionaries, I'd throw it out.

Waverly · Post by **Waverly** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 4:14 pm

So now Sailor is the arbiter of which bible versions are most accurate, and the judge of which one I should reference? I find such posturing extreme sillyness. If you don't wish to reply to me, simply don't repy; don't tell me to fetch you a new translation from another bible. The KJV is the most widespread, and it is therefore the one most people have access to; however if this is a tactic to label that translation of Numbers inaccurate, think again.

from the New American Standard:
19 `The priest shall have her take an oath and shall say to the woman, "If no man has lain with you and if you have not gone astray into uncleanness, being under the authority of your husband, be immune to this water of bitterness that brings a curse; 20 if you, however, have gone astray, being under the authority of your husband, and if you have defiled yourself and a man other than your husband has had intercourse with you" 21 (then the priest shall have the woman swear with the oath of the curse, and the priest shall say to the woman), "the LORD make you a curse and an oath among your people by the LORD'S making your thigh waste away and your abdomen swell; 22 and this water that brings a curse shall go into your stomach, and make your abdomen swell and your thigh waste away." And the woman shall say, "Amen. Amen." 23 `The priest shall then write these curses on a scroll, and he shall wash them off into the water of bitterness. 24 `Then he shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that brings a curse, so that the water which brings a curse will go into her and cause bitterness. 25 `The priest shall take the grain offering of jealousy from the woman's hand, and he shall wave the grain offering before the LORD and bring it to the altar; 26 and the priest shall take a handful of the grain offering as its memorial offering and offer it up in smoke on the altar, and afterward he shall make the woman drink the water. 27 `When he has made her drink the water, then it shall come about, if she has defiled herself and has been unfaithful to her husband, that the water which brings a curse will go into her and cause bitterness, and her abdomen will swell and her thigh will waste away, and the woman will become a curse among her people. 28 `But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, she will then be free and conceive children.

Once again, I won’t even tell what is going on in this passage, I’ll leave it for the reader to decide.

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 4:28 pm

Watch the level of heat, folks, and no flames, please. If Eminem or Sailor Saturn or any other Christian wishes to answer questions, that's their business; but let's keep the questions presented in a respectful fashion that does credit to all concerned.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 4:41 pm

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn

Who's to say no one has done this?

IMHO if someone had ,then another person could verify it. Why answer only one person? I believe this is what VoodooDali meant.

If you could pray to God and have him answer, anybody should be able to pray and get the same answer to "What is a Christian.

Now you could say, they are praying to the wrong God "false" and he/she does exist to answer. How do you tell which is the true God "Faith"

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 4:42 pm

Originally posted by Waverly
So now Sailor is the arbiter of which bible versions are most accurate, and the judge of which one I should reference? I find such posturing extreme sillyness. If you don't wish to reply to me, simply don't repy; don't tell me to fetch you a new translation from another bible. The KJV is the most widespread, and it is therefore the one most people have access to; however if this is a tactic to label that translation of Numbers inaccurate, think again.Once again, I won’t even tell what is going on in this passage, I’ll leave it for the reader to decide.

No, I'm simply refusing to use a language that I have difficulty making sense of. Coming to me, a teenage girl of the late 20th/early 21st century, with a Bible in a language from 400 years ago makes just as much sense as coming to me with a Bible in Swahili or Swedish. It's a language I don't speak.

Also, the KJV is not used as much nowadays as it used to be, except by old traditionalists.

Also, could you tell me what chapter that passage is from, Waverly?

Oh, and telling me what's going on in the passage would be pointless as I'm not likely to believe anything you say.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 4:45 pm

Originally posted by Weasel
IMHO if someone had ,then another person could verify it. Why answer only one person? I believe this is what VoodooDali meant.

If you could pray to God and have him answer, anybody should be able to pray and get the same answer to "What is a Christian.

Now you could say, they are praying to the wrong God "false" and he/she does exist to answer. How do you tell which is the true God "Faith"

Just because someone, or even a group of someones, says they've got word from God does not mean people will believe them.

Waverly · Post by **Waverly** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 7:09 pm

Coming to me, a teenage girl of the late 20th/early 21st century, with a Bible in a language from 400 years ago makes just as much sense as coming to me with a Bible in Swahili or Swedish. It's a language I don't speak.

So essentially you must rely on what others tell you the bible says and accept someone else's interpretation? You should be capable of thinking for yourself. If you are not, or choose not to, you have no business taking issue with my interpretation. Failing to understand the primary source material in this, or any, subject is not indicative of a desire to fully comprehend it.

And I did in fact quote your much preferred NASV. The chapter is Numbers 5.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 7:16 pm

Originally posted by Waverly
So essentially you must rely on what others tell you the bible says and accept someone else's interpretation?

And here is where the human factor comes in to play. Unless you can talk to the first person who wrote it, you can never know what the true meaning was.

Aragorn Returns · Post by **Aragorn Returns** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 7:33 pm

well, i guess we'll just have to ask jesus then.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 7:40 pm

Originally posted by Aragorn Returns
well, i guess we'll just have to ask jesus then.

In the end, if that is your belief, there will be no reason to ask, you will be in heaven with him.

Aragorn Returns · Post by **Aragorn Returns** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 7:43 pm

well then you can pray, you don't have to die to pray.