I like the game so far, but it's harder to play for a long time like BG.
But I have got the feeling they listned to feedback from for example BG and pc games in genaral.
The box is way better then one of those DVD boxes to mention one thing.
How you Rate NWN 1 to 10 scale
OK, my thoughts. I gave this game an 8, though I'm only in the first chapter and would probably want to revise my view after I've gotten a bit farther. The first thing I want to do is compare this game to another I own, and forced myself to enjoy for a long while, even though it wasn't a good game. I'm talking about Dungeon Siege. Anyone who has played this game and NWN should instantly see where I'm going here. When I loaded up NWN, after having created my character, which was exactly what I was expecting, I was thrown straight into a game of DS. With the difference that you got a few more dialog choices. There are several things that I don't like about this game.
Firstly is the camera. The "Drive" camera mode makes it much easier to follow your character, but it is still an effort on occasion to actually see what they are doing, especially in narrow corridors. Why should I have to take time moving the camera around, when I should just be able to see everything? This is an expectation, especially after the brilliant BG and BG2 where you saw everything. Also, why can't I tilt the camera? I should be able to see in front of me rather than being forced to try and rotate the camera so that what I want to see is in the top corners of my screen.
Secondly, the hireling system (mercenaries from Diablo II, anyone? They even teleport after you if you run too fast) that Aegis complained about and that you all chastised him for daring to speak against. It's rubbish. For example, my thief seems to carry a few potions with him. If he's down to about 25% health in battle, he'll drink one. But what if he's at 30% health out of battle? Can I tell him to heal up then? No, I have to use up one of my health kits to heal him. If I find a really excellent bow, of no use to my swordfighter, or some thief-only weapon, can I give it to him to make him better? No, all I can do is sell it. Do I know whether he's running out of potions or arrows? He seems to run out of potions eventually but will he ever run out of arrows? I suspect not (grr) but you never know...
Thirdly, the level of interaction. I feel far more detached from my character in NWN that I did in either BG or BG2, almost as much as in IWD or DS. There isn't anything drawing me in yet...it seems like a hackfest where I talk to a drone who gives me a piece of information or a quest. I think that part of the reason for this is the fact that the dialog box is in the background, so to speak. While in the Infinity Engine the dialog took up over half the screen, forcing you to read it all and take it in, the Aurora Engine has it up in a corner. While in dialog I can move around, and even do other things, which may or may not break the dialog. Now I know that much of this is to facilitate online play, but for me playing only single player so far, it's just another reason for me to care less about the dialog unless it looks important. With the Infinity Engine I would read every word, but here, in the 1024x768 that I play the game in to make it look a bit better, I find myself straining to read the type, and not even caring. The dialog itself is less well written, from what I've seen so far. In BG and BG2 (I'm sorry I keep comparing the games, it's just natural
) you could be entertained by literally hundreds of people all with at least one thing to say to you. I'm in the main city in the game, and in Neverwinter City Core there are 20 (if that many) people that you can have a conversation with, and most of them consist of "I'm feeling so crappy, I can't be your tour guide right now". Now I know that this is a city under siege by a plague, but even in death there should be a few people to tell you non-essential pieces of information, gossip, or just stories about their Uncle Jengo. Where's the humour? Some of the funniest people are those facing death, but not in this game.
Fourthly the graphics are, also supporting what Aegis said, pretty awful. To tell you the truth, I would rather play BG than this if I was just going on the graphics. Do you remember that room in the BG2 Thieves' guild with all the cardboard buildings that was a training area? This is what the NWN buildings remind me of. And the inventory items are far too cartoonish for my liking too - but those are just minor points. Just because it's in 3D doesn't mean that the game can be less good-looking than its predecessor. Morrowind is, and I agree with Aegis again, gorgeous in many places, and I believe if NWN had just a part of the beauty of Morrowind, I would like it a lot more. Right now none of the scenery looks real enough.
Well, that's what I think. A lot many more bad points than good (where were the good points?) but I'll be posting what I like about the game so much when I know what they are in more detail. Thanks for reading
Firstly is the camera. The "Drive" camera mode makes it much easier to follow your character, but it is still an effort on occasion to actually see what they are doing, especially in narrow corridors. Why should I have to take time moving the camera around, when I should just be able to see everything? This is an expectation, especially after the brilliant BG and BG2 where you saw everything. Also, why can't I tilt the camera? I should be able to see in front of me rather than being forced to try and rotate the camera so that what I want to see is in the top corners of my screen.
Secondly, the hireling system (mercenaries from Diablo II, anyone? They even teleport after you if you run too fast) that Aegis complained about and that you all chastised him for daring to speak against. It's rubbish. For example, my thief seems to carry a few potions with him. If he's down to about 25% health in battle, he'll drink one. But what if he's at 30% health out of battle? Can I tell him to heal up then? No, I have to use up one of my health kits to heal him. If I find a really excellent bow, of no use to my swordfighter, or some thief-only weapon, can I give it to him to make him better? No, all I can do is sell it. Do I know whether he's running out of potions or arrows? He seems to run out of potions eventually but will he ever run out of arrows? I suspect not (grr) but you never know...
Thirdly, the level of interaction. I feel far more detached from my character in NWN that I did in either BG or BG2, almost as much as in IWD or DS. There isn't anything drawing me in yet...it seems like a hackfest where I talk to a drone who gives me a piece of information or a quest. I think that part of the reason for this is the fact that the dialog box is in the background, so to speak. While in the Infinity Engine the dialog took up over half the screen, forcing you to read it all and take it in, the Aurora Engine has it up in a corner. While in dialog I can move around, and even do other things, which may or may not break the dialog. Now I know that much of this is to facilitate online play, but for me playing only single player so far, it's just another reason for me to care less about the dialog unless it looks important. With the Infinity Engine I would read every word, but here, in the 1024x768 that I play the game in to make it look a bit better, I find myself straining to read the type, and not even caring. The dialog itself is less well written, from what I've seen so far. In BG and BG2 (I'm sorry I keep comparing the games, it's just natural
) you could be entertained by literally hundreds of people all with at least one thing to say to you. I'm in the main city in the game, and in Neverwinter City Core there are 20 (if that many) people that you can have a conversation with, and most of them consist of "I'm feeling so crappy, I can't be your tour guide right now". Now I know that this is a city under siege by a plague, but even in death there should be a few people to tell you non-essential pieces of information, gossip, or just stories about their Uncle Jengo. Where's the humour? Some of the funniest people are those facing death, but not in this game.Fourthly the graphics are, also supporting what Aegis said, pretty awful. To tell you the truth, I would rather play BG than this if I was just going on the graphics. Do you remember that room in the BG2 Thieves' guild with all the cardboard buildings that was a training area? This is what the NWN buildings remind me of. And the inventory items are far too cartoonish for my liking too - but those are just minor points. Just because it's in 3D doesn't mean that the game can be less good-looking than its predecessor. Morrowind is, and I agree with Aegis again, gorgeous in many places, and I believe if NWN had just a part of the beauty of Morrowind, I would like it a lot more. Right now none of the scenery looks real enough.
Well, that's what I think. A lot many more bad points than good (where were the good points?) but I'll be posting what I like about the game so much when I know what they are in more detail. Thanks for reading
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Im just gonna comment on this reply here and there.
"When I loaded up NWN, after having created my character, which was exactly what I was expecting, I was thrown straight into a game of DS. With the difference that you got a few more dialog choices. There are several things that I don't like about this game. "
I dont feel that at all, I played alittle DS at a friends house.. NWN has a story from the beginning that can be completed in many different ways. DS had next to no real plot.. not one that I was aware off. But the difference between the 2 are... I LIKE playing NWN, I find the game fun. Everyone other game I have played/purchased since Baldurs Gate has been boring... Pool of Radiance, Morrowind, Dungeon Siege... none of these game held my interrest for then an hour or 2. Different choice in games i suppose. Comparing in NWN to Baldurs Gate is unfair in alot of ways.
Baldurs Gate I/II is 100% built around single player. All work was put into making a story. NWN is another game. It's not a Multplayer RPG, nor is it a single player RPG. It is infact.. a digital version of the PnP game Dungeons and Dragons. This is the whole concept behind NWN. Nothing else. If you bought it for the single player, then you gonna be dissapointed. While certain amount of time was used to make the single player campain, most of Black Isle's time was put into making a Computer version of DnD. There for, to expect the single player story to be as high caliber as BG's... would be only fooling one self. As far as im concerned, I think the story is excellent. All I can say is, I certainly enjoyed the ride as did just about everyone else who bought the game. Right now on Vodooextreme, the poll "What's you take on NWN" is at:
Havn't tried it 40%
Loving it! 37
Good game 12%
Not bad... 5%
I think that's pretty darn good results for any game these days.
"Firstly is the camera. The "Drive" camera mode makes it much easier to follow your character, but it is still an effort on occasion to actually see what they are doing, especially in narrow corridors."
I use the middle mouse button on my mouse, I can pan around with that, works great. (Yes im one of the anti scroll button fok's ).
"Secondly, the hireling system (mercenaries from Diablo II, anyone? They even teleport after you if you run too fast) that Aegis complained about and that you all chastised him for daring to speak against. It's rubbish."
I dont think there is a single person here who enjoy the henchmen.. but.. you CAN only play 1 character in DnD. Rules again. I still think they are anoyingly poor at what they do.. but i've learned to cope with it. This also a good example of my point. NWN is DnD, most of the time was used to make it so.. poor henchmen code is another side effect. But then again, Black & White was supposed to have insanly good AI on the creature... I still think they where as stupid as bucket.
"Fourthly the graphics are, also supporting what Aegis said, pretty awful. To tell you the truth, I would rather play BG than this if I was just going on the graphics. Do you remember that room in the BG2 Thieves' guild with all the cardboard buildings that was a training area? This is what the NWN buildings remind me of."
Dont know what to reply to that.. on my screen they look absolutely great!.. have you checked your options?. But hey, seen that a million times, "The graphics suck". Nothing much to say to that then I really enjoy the graphics, especially at the higher levels when spells really start to get big.
On a final note (On this reply that got wayyy to long).. i find abit sad that you cant enjoy the game like I do.. been stuck almost every spare minute at my computer since I got it. But I think alot of people that where expecting bg3 are dissabpointed with NWN and they "should" be, because it's not BG3...
But with NWN, you can actually make BG3 with you friends... I actually dare anyone to do that.. please
"When I loaded up NWN, after having created my character, which was exactly what I was expecting, I was thrown straight into a game of DS. With the difference that you got a few more dialog choices. There are several things that I don't like about this game. "
I dont feel that at all, I played alittle DS at a friends house.. NWN has a story from the beginning that can be completed in many different ways. DS had next to no real plot.. not one that I was aware off. But the difference between the 2 are... I LIKE playing NWN, I find the game fun. Everyone other game I have played/purchased since Baldurs Gate has been boring... Pool of Radiance, Morrowind, Dungeon Siege... none of these game held my interrest for then an hour or 2. Different choice in games i suppose. Comparing in NWN to Baldurs Gate is unfair in alot of ways.
Baldurs Gate I/II is 100% built around single player. All work was put into making a story. NWN is another game. It's not a Multplayer RPG, nor is it a single player RPG. It is infact.. a digital version of the PnP game Dungeons and Dragons. This is the whole concept behind NWN. Nothing else. If you bought it for the single player, then you gonna be dissapointed. While certain amount of time was used to make the single player campain, most of Black Isle's time was put into making a Computer version of DnD. There for, to expect the single player story to be as high caliber as BG's... would be only fooling one self. As far as im concerned, I think the story is excellent. All I can say is, I certainly enjoyed the ride as did just about everyone else who bought the game. Right now on Vodooextreme, the poll "What's you take on NWN" is at:
Havn't tried it 40%
Loving it! 37
Good game 12%
Not bad... 5%
I think that's pretty darn good results for any game these days.
"Firstly is the camera. The "Drive" camera mode makes it much easier to follow your character, but it is still an effort on occasion to actually see what they are doing, especially in narrow corridors."
I use the middle mouse button on my mouse, I can pan around with that, works great. (Yes im one of the anti scroll button fok's
)."Secondly, the hireling system (mercenaries from Diablo II, anyone? They even teleport after you if you run too fast) that Aegis complained about and that you all chastised him for daring to speak against. It's rubbish."
I dont think there is a single person here who enjoy the henchmen.. but.. you CAN only play 1 character in DnD. Rules again. I still think they are anoyingly poor at what they do.. but i've learned to cope with it. This also a good example of my point. NWN is DnD, most of the time was used to make it so.. poor henchmen code is another side effect. But then again, Black & White was supposed to have insanly good AI on the creature... I still think they where as stupid as bucket.
"Fourthly the graphics are, also supporting what Aegis said, pretty awful. To tell you the truth, I would rather play BG than this if I was just going on the graphics. Do you remember that room in the BG2 Thieves' guild with all the cardboard buildings that was a training area? This is what the NWN buildings remind me of."
Dont know what to reply to that.. on my screen they look absolutely great!.. have you checked your options?. But hey, seen that a million times, "The graphics suck". Nothing much to say to that then I really enjoy the graphics, especially at the higher levels when spells really start to get big.
On a final note (On this reply that got wayyy to long).. i find abit sad that you cant enjoy the game like I do.. been stuck almost every spare minute at my computer since I got it. But I think alot of people that where expecting bg3 are dissabpointed with NWN and they "should" be, because it's not BG3...
But with NWN, you can actually make BG3 with you friends... I actually dare anyone to do that.. please
/Kaaze
i played Morrowind today for the first time. after how everyone is comparing it too NWN and syaing how it is so much better, i thought i should try it just to see if there really was somehting special about it. i started it up and my first thought was Ultima Underworld. maybe it was just the first person view i dont know. what i really want to know is why everyone is comparing NWN to Morrowind. especially in the graphics department. NWN graphics kick ass. They are far superior to Morrowinds. Is Morrowind more realistic than NWN? not hardly. The people in Morrowind did not seem real to me at all in fact nothing seemed real. (Like i said it reminded me of Ultima Underworld) Does Morrowind have a better story than NWN? i have no idea. I got bored with Morrowind very early on. Morrowind is probably a good game. its not really my style though. my point here is that NWN and Morrowind are completely different games. we could go on and on about which one was better but the truth is they really shouldnt be compared. if you like Morrowind than thats fine. but dont go saying that NWN is a bad game just because it is not anything like it.
btw the graphics in NWN really are excellent and i dont see how anyone could say that they suck and actually mean it.
btw the graphics in NWN really are excellent and i dont see how anyone could say that they suck and actually mean it.
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Calogrenant
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I really like it, and like everything, it has some pros and cons, some important, some not so much, but the overall result is an addictive, fun game to play, with nice graphics, and the classic "trunk" storyline with its minor quests as "branches".
Here´s what i found as pros and cons, mind im in Ch2, and didn´t try the multìplayer features yet.
Pros:
1 - DnD "3rd Edition" rules, from what ive seen so long, perfectly implemented.
2 - Nice combat system. Its like a mixture of the frenetic Diablo with the more paused, calculated BG. Neat.
3 - Graphics are good, textures are more than Ok, and I could say the areas´ layout combined with the overall sound are inmersing enough to have a cool gaming experience. Maybe not as inmersing as Dungeon Siege´s, but very nice nonetheless.
Cons:
1 - DnD "3rd Edition" rules, yet im still looking for my Great Cleave feat... I probably forgot to install it.. hehe. I mean, its ok, i dont expect it to include the 100% of the PnP´s version features, but i bet implementing small stuff like the mentioned feat wasn´t that hard, was it?
2 - Some bugs, like NPC´s or the same journal not recognizing some quests are done. For instance, (Warning, microscopic spoiler ahead ) in Ch1´s Halrueth Never quests, Judge Oleff didnt notice i had the rusted armor on me until i came back with another piece as well, making me able to turn both in.
3 - AND WORST BY FAR - In fact, this one overrides and makes me forget about any other fault the game may have - The INVENTORY MANAGEMENT. Anyone who played the game for at least 10 minutes knows what im talking about - ITS A PAIN!! specially when you want to put something into an unopened bag of holding (or alike) which you came to forget it was full and then you got to dig that goddamn 1-square-sized ring out of the fourth inventory layer again only to misclick over the item next to the right bag of holding and GRRRRRRR!!! - Its sooo frustrating!!!
Someone explain me why its so hard to make items remain in the cursor or switch spots between themselves! Like in Baldurs Gate, or any other game where an inventory is involved!
But, in spite of the horrendous and player-repellant inventory system, I´ll give this game a 7. It certainly doesn´t deserve an 8, and we all know the 9 is reserved for the Baldur´s Gate saga, while the 10 will always be for our beloved Eye of the Beholder Trilogy.
Here´s what i found as pros and cons, mind im in Ch2, and didn´t try the multìplayer features yet.
Pros:
1 - DnD "3rd Edition" rules, from what ive seen so long, perfectly implemented.
2 - Nice combat system. Its like a mixture of the frenetic Diablo with the more paused, calculated BG. Neat.
3 - Graphics are good, textures are more than Ok, and I could say the areas´ layout combined with the overall sound are inmersing enough to have a cool gaming experience. Maybe not as inmersing as Dungeon Siege´s, but very nice nonetheless.
Cons:
1 - DnD "3rd Edition" rules, yet im still looking for my Great Cleave feat... I probably forgot to install it.. hehe. I mean, its ok, i dont expect it to include the 100% of the PnP´s version features, but i bet implementing small stuff like the mentioned feat wasn´t that hard, was it?
2 - Some bugs, like NPC´s or the same journal not recognizing some quests are done. For instance, (Warning, microscopic spoiler ahead
) in Ch1´s Halrueth Never quests, Judge Oleff didnt notice i had the rusted armor on me until i came back with another piece as well, making me able to turn both in.3 - AND WORST BY FAR - In fact, this one overrides and makes me forget about any other fault the game may have - The INVENTORY MANAGEMENT. Anyone who played the game for at least 10 minutes knows what im talking about - ITS A PAIN!! specially when you want to put something into an unopened bag of holding (or alike) which you came to forget it was full and then you got to dig that goddamn 1-square-sized ring out of the fourth inventory layer again only to misclick over the item next to the right bag of holding and GRRRRRRR!!! - Its sooo frustrating!!!
Someone explain me why its so hard to make items remain in the cursor or switch spots between themselves! Like in Baldurs Gate, or any other game where an inventory is involved!
But, in spite of the horrendous and player-repellant inventory system, I´ll give this game a 7. It certainly doesn´t deserve an 8, and we all know the 9 is reserved for the Baldur´s Gate saga, while the 10 will always be for our beloved Eye of the Beholder Trilogy.
Well, I did say that it was my first impression: of course NWN isn't the same as DS - I'd give DS about 5/10, as I think it is truly average - not deserving of most of its reviews. I think to find a game that hides its total linearity more terribly you would have to delve into the midsts of games like Pac-man. Really I do. All I meant was that the look and feel of the game straight off reminded me of DS, and I suppose that this is one thing that has stuck with me as I play the game. I'm sorry it has, because I know full well that they are completely different gameplay-wise.Originally posted by KaaZe
I dont feel that at all, I played alittle DS at a friends house.. NWN has a story from the beginning that can be completed in many different ways. DS had next to no real plot.. not one that I was aware off.
It's a good point, and well made. I know that the game is multiplayer-orientated, with a single-player campaign there to start you off. Again, though, it's the first impressions that I got of this game that have lowered it in my estimation. Beginning of BG? You're going on a little journey away from all the boredom of your home, when your foster-father is brutally cut down and you're left almost alone to fend for yourself. Beginning of BG2? You're being tortured by an evil mage who wants to gain control over your soul. You manage to escape, only for your best friend to be locked away. Beginning of NWN? You're a fledgling adventurer, called into service by a pretty woman to rid the city of a great evil. Ho hum. At least they could have tried with the beginning to make it more personal - the only thing like that is when you get a date from some girl for the ball, and return to find her slaughtered. Respect for that - it's good. But the rest of the Prelude is dull. Sure it gets better, but it's those first impressions that don't impress.Originally posted by KaaZe
Baldurs Gate I/II is 100% built around single player. All work was put into making a story. NWN is another game. It's not a Multplayer RPG, nor is it a single player RPG. It is infact.. a digital version of the PnP game Dungeons and Dragons. This is the whole concept behind NWN. Nothing else. If you bought it for the single player, then you gonna be dissapointed. While certain amount of time was used to make the single player campain, most of Black Isle's time was put into making a Computer version of DnD. There for, to expect the single player story to be as high caliber as BG's... would be only fooling one self.
What I'm complaining about here is that you shouldn't have to make any effort to be able to see your character - it should be possible to concentrate entirely on the game. Breaking the immersion by having the player needing to control the camera is a cardinal sin, and I don't like it.Originally posted by KaaZe
I use the middle mouse button on my mouse, I can pan around with that, works great. (Yes im one of the anti scroll button fok's
Again, you shouldn't have to "learn to cope" with anything in the game. It should be intuitive, or left out. Personally, I don't give a flying one whether the party system is contrary to the DnD rules, it's brilliant in BG and BG2, and is a simulation of having other people playing characters in your party. The party system is a far better replacement for having multiple players than the cruddy henchman system, so why can't we have it? It's not like we'd have to put up with it in the multiplayer - there other PCs provide the party.Originally posted by KaaZe
I dont think there is a single person here who enjoy the henchmen.. but.. you CAN only play 1 character in DnD. Rules again. I still think they are anoyingly poor at what they do.. but i've learned to cope with it. This also a good example of my point. NWN is DnD, most of the time was used to make it so.. poor henchmen code is another side effect.
Sure, OK the spell effects look cool. But in general, the backgrounds and places are poor IMO. Bioware always do great spell effects, and in the past the locations have looked great. Now however the buildings look insubstantial and unreal. Another point is the way that parts of the buildings disappear when you turn the camera. Now I know that this is to stop the player getting lost behind a palace, but I'm afraid I prefer the fixed isometric perspective here - and having it fully rotatable allows you to get disorientated more easily. I have the map open most of the time, otherwise I get lost amongst all the similarly paper-thin building facades.Originally posted by KaaZe
Dont know what to reply to that.. on my screen they look absolutely great!.. have you checked your options?. But hey, seen that a million times, "The graphics suck". Nothing much to say to that then I really enjoy the graphics, especially at the higher levels when spells really start to get big.
As for the game being better-looking than Morrowind, what can I say? It's obviously a matter of opinion, but I don't see how anyone could say that NWN looks better than MW. I mean, sure in MW the people look a bit...wrong, but the scenery is spot-on. In MW, you can go up to the top of Seyda Neen lighthouse and watch the sun set, and it's beautiful. NWN just doesn't measure up.
Oh, and I agree that the inventory is a huge step back from any other RPG of the last 5 years, barring M&M
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What I'm complaining about here is that you shouldn't have to make any effort to be able to see your character - it should be possible to concentrate entirely on the game. Breaking the immersion by having the player needing to control the camera is a cardinal sin, and I don't like it.
I far from agree on this, it is no sin, it might be your oppinion, but others may feel something else about this.
I have always hated fixed camera views as I found them limiting on my exploration of games.
The fixed isometric view allowed for some stunning 2D pictures to be used, but would not help much when it comes to 3D, and the fact that you can go around things now, is imo a big step forward.
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