GameBanshee Forums

@Fable - Most of these critics seem to be complaining about this just for publicity. The only people with a real basis for complaint are the UNC students who are directly affected by this. As UNC has provided students who object with an alternative to reading the book, then I think the situation has been resolved.

That doesn't mean that the critics can't/won't still complain, but, IMO, their complaints would not be valid.

Originally posted by Sojourner
That's squarely within the so-called Bible Belt, isn't it. That would explain the presence of books with Christian themes on the mandatory lists.

Florida's not part of the Bible Belt. Even if that had been the case, I'm inclined to doubt that would have automatically figured into the decision of the university. To assume otherwise is to insult the intelligence and decision-making skills of several tens of millions of people, simply because of their geographical locality and general assumptions about their beliefs.

Originally posted by fable


Florida's not part of the Bible Belt. Even if that had been the case, I'm inclined to doubt that would have automatically figured into the decision of the university. To assume otherwise is to insult the intelligence and decision-making skills of several tens of millions of people, simply because of their geographical locality and general assumptions about their beliefs.

No insult intended, Fable. Being part of a southern family, I see first-hand how matters of religion & faith are more entrenched in daily life than other parts of the country, and how more often it creeps into public events and institutions. My comment reflected this. In fact, that is what is at the heart of the religious group's challenge to the university - they regard the book as a challenge to their faith. I only wish it had been atheists making the challenge, based on the separation of church and state.

Originally posted by Sojourner


No insult intended, Fable. Being part of a southern family, I see first-hand how matters of religion & faith are more entrenched in daily life than other parts of the country, and how more often it creeps into public events and institutions. My comment reflected this. In fact, that is what is at the heart of the religious group's challenge to the university - they regard the book as a challenge to their faith. I only wish it had been atheists making the challenge, based on the separation of church and state.

No insult taken. I know that Southern society in general has been strongly influenced by a sort of cultural Christian variant that inspired enormous revivals starting in the 1850s and 60s, and is still going strong, today. However, Florida's outside the Bible Belt. North Florida has a large number of Northern inhabitants, and Southern Florida has a great many Latinos--in fact, there are far more people speaking Spanish in Miami and Miami Beach than English. (I remember reading the results of a poll a decade ago.) The former aren't into the strictly regional conventions of Southern US Christianity, and the latter are predominantly Roman Catholic. Native Floridians, who still make a decent showing, never went in for the kind of pseudo-Christian triumphalism that affects the rest of the South.

In fact, I was told on more than one occasion by Southern friends that Florida isn't even a part of the South.

Originally posted by Sojourner
I only wish it had been atheists making the challenge, based on the separation of church and state.

As I said before, I find it ironic that the Family Policy Network is filing this lawsuit, based on the separation of church and state, when they advocate keeping "In God We Trust" as the national motto and on the coinage and keeping "under God" in the pledge of allegiance (check out the first paragraph, note the link to http://www.wepledge.com).

The merits of this argument aside, I don't think this lawsuit will hold up in court, as the two of the plaintiffs aren't UNC students (from what I understand they're alums, who don't have to do the assignment and won't suffer "irreparable harm") and the three who are, Jon Doe 1, John Doe 2 and John Doe 3, have chosen to remain anonymous and UNC is constitutionally entitled to face those bringing a lawsuit against them. Still the FPN et al have gotten what they wanted by having the assignment changed from mandatory to voluntary.

@fable:
As a side note and off-topic, as a former Florida resident, I will say that there are four different sides to Florida. First, there's north Florida which encompasses the panhandle and the eastern coast down to about St. Augustine and includes Ocala and Gainesville. This is the most "southern" part of the state, but it's still much more laid back than our neighbours to the north in Georgia and Alabama in terms of being southern. In fact, the city of Tallahassee's motto is "Florida with a southern accent."

The second part of Florida runs from Daytona Beach south to Ft. Lauderdale on the Atlantic coast and over to Ft. Myers and up to Homasassa Springs on the Gulf coast. This part of Florida is filled with snowbirds and transplanted yankees who move to the Sunshine State to avoid paying other states's state income taxes and to follow jobs in Orlando and Tampa.

The third part of Florida runs from the northern part of Miami down to the Dry Tortugas on the east coast and is characterised by its large population of exiled Cubans, Peurto Rican immigrants and blacks who moved to Miami looking for jobs. This is the poorest urban part of the state and if many other Floridians had their way, they'd cut it off and let them drift off on their own.

The fourth Florida is Key West, that's filled with beach bums and the United States Navy (an odd combination if there ever were one). I think if they could, they'd declare themselves the Republic of Margaritaville, elect Jimmy Buffett president and go about their laid-back lifestyle without paying much attention to the rest of the world.

Some information about the book - it was written before 9/11, and is written by a non-muslim.

Quite how a non-muslim goes about indocrinating people is beyond me...

Wow, all this religious talk acorss almost all the m,essage boards is mindboggling. Why one person sees another as being evil is also completely out of my spectrum. Anyway, I believe the unviersity has a right to assign any books it wants, i mean if you want to get rid of this book that describes why some believe in Islam, you mind as well get rid of every book that has someone believing in Christianity if they explain it in even a paragraph. It is utterly stupid to be protesting thsi way against a whole another religion. As a student, I would enthusiasticly read any book about Islam just to make sure my stereotypes were true or untrue.

I guess eating my words have become a habit of mine here.
I have read the book.
It is a good and fair introduction to Islam.
It is 100 pages (near there).
Of those 100 pages, around 60 are traslation from the Quran itself into english.
That should cause any problems for anybody here or at the university.
It translates what is already available in the corner book store and many libraries in the US.
The next 40 pages, goes on to explain the Quran, Our prophet (SAW) and basic stuff.
I mean real basic.
The five pillars, etc.
I knew most of this when i was 3 years old.
It is a simple introduction to Islam.
Nothing more Nothing less.

It is not discussing conversion or why people should do so.
It doesnt discuss why Islam is better.
It doesnt discuss Politics at all.
Neither does it discuss anything from this century, let alone the past 4.
It has no politics, no mention of what has happened.
Heck it was written way before sept 11th.
There is nothing wrong with this book at all.
My 2 cents.
I will get to Toms reply later on today.