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Best weapon in the game: Blackrazor

When you're hacking away with it three to four times a round, it just cripples opponents not to mention makes the wielder totally buff. It's insane how powerful it can be in the hands of a fighter/thief.

Too bad By TOB lots of critter are immune to +3 weapons... I find it irritating to have to switch to a diff weapon when I fight a boss...
BTW Flail of ages DOES have its good points...
1. You can get it early
2. Upgraded it dishes out a lot of dmg.

But on the other hand lots of things end up being resistant to one element or another and I'd rather have something that affects the enemy in terms of status/etc. like Blackrazor, or especially Foebane +5... Already gave a long superfluous talk about that on pg 2.

Anyway... I also don't quite understand whats the point of using an ultraowerful weapon in BOTH hands... Unless the one in the offhand does something really special and needful (LIke Answerer) it seems wasteful to put something in your offhand when you can just use Kundan/Belm etc. to let your mainhand attack again. You only get 1 attack with your off hand anyway right?

Originally posted by Ekental
Too bad By TOB lots of critter are immune to +3 weapons... I find it irritating to have to switch to a diff weapon when I fight a boss...
BTW Flail of ages DOES have its good points...
1. You can get it early
2. Upgraded it dishes out a lot of dmg.

But on the other hand lots of things end up being resistant to one element or another and I'd rather have something that affects the enemy in terms of status/etc. like Blackrazor, or especially Foebane +5... Already gave a long superfluous talk about that on pg 2.

Anyway... I also don't quite understand whats the point of using an ultraowerful weapon in BOTH hands... Unless the one in the offhand does something really special and needful (LIke Answerer) it seems wasteful to put something in your offhand when you can just use Kundan/Belm etc. to let your mainhand attack again. You only get 1 attack with your off hand anyway right?

I agree with you:
Blackrazor has to be considered a ToB weapon, and in Tob, although godd is not the best swords. Had been found in an earlier chapter would had been a serious contender for the best weapon in SoA;
As for off-hand weapon best option are:
Belm/Kundane, D.o.E., Scarlet ninja-to (if you are a thief), Dakkon Zerth (for a F/M and bards) and Crom in SoA, and add Angurvadal, Purifier (for palladin), Hindo's doom in ToB.

I have to agree with Ned, Blackrazor is a great Sword.

I also like the Wave, very usefull against elementals (ToB has quite alot of those) Dont use it much though, since I prefer dualwielding anytime.

Bow of Gesen is a great Weapon too.

here's my 2 pennys on most powerful weapons:

two-handed, not class-restricted, SoA only: silver sword. you just can't beat the vorpal effect!

two-handed, class-restricted, SoA only: staff of the magi. the first runner-up (carsomyr), while it does come close, just does not transform the charachter using it into an uber-powerfull (cheesy?)state, regardless of the level it's aqured on, while SotM does. basically, a mage using SotM and cloack of non-detection is nearly invincible.

two-handed, class-restricted and not class restricted, ToB: it seems the game designers went for overkill here, as IMHO all the uber two-handers are of the same power level. all have an exellent basic offensive ability (+6 enchantment that will punch through absolute immunity), some offensive bonus or two or three (chance of vorpal hit, level drain, elemental damage, etc.) and/or defensive ability (free action, magic resistance). here it really comes down to your personal choice. i like ixil's spike, just because nobody uses spears. poor spears. thy're lucky to have me!


one-handed, not-enemy type specific, SoA only: i'd have to pick the flail of ages.

for me, only weapons with on-hit abilities are worth talking about as power-weapons, as they are the one that make reall difference in combat, although it could be argued that ultra-high damage weapons, such as cromfrayer, make the difference in that they allow you to kill your enmies faster. IMHO, this is only true if the extra damage done by the weapon compared to another weapon allows you to kill your opponent in the first round of combat, thus disabling his ability to damage you. thus, vs. high-hp (which are the ones we care about) opponents weapons like FoA, celestal fury and blackrazor are more usefull.

the reason i prefer FoA to celestal fury, as much as i like katanas, is the slashing immunity (which seems to be the only type of damage immunity the enemies have, CMIIW), immunity to stun, which is much more common than immunity to slow (common trolls are immune!), and stable elelmental damage, which is an exellent way to punch through stoneskin.
in comparison to blackrazor FoA wins due to it's slow ability, wich is MORE USEFUL than level-drain: both are aimed towards decreasing your opponent's ability to damage you, and with slow you get better results (-4 AC, -1 attack/pund vs. -1 to hit, -8 or so HPs). in order to decrease the number of attacks made on you, using blackrazor you have to drain your enemy multiple times, and it only works on adventurer-type enmies who have thir number of attacks level-derrived, and not on monsters, who have the number of attacks set. using FoA, assuming 33% of the hits do cause slow, and you rarely miss (you realy almost don't miss in mid- and high-levles) you'll theoretically need to to make 10-12 hits or so in order to get your enmy to make 3-4 less attacks on you per round, and getting a not-too-shabby +12 - +16! to hit him.

one handed, not enemy-type specific, ToB: still the FoA! the MASSIVE 10 pts of elemental damage of ALL possible types are just nedded, and the even more common immunity to slashing damage does help FoA's case in comparrison to other exellent weapons such as Foebane and Axe of Unyelding. plus the free action frees a ring slot, and enables your char to be Improved Hasted without the trouble of going into inventory and rmoving the ring, but simply by swithching to another weapon when the spell "hits" him.

one-handed, enemy-type-specific: i add this category to bring in two exellent weapons: mace of disruption (and runehammer) amd foebane, which are THE best vs. specific types of enemies, both verry common in thr game (conviniently, undead are plentyfull in SoA and deamons in ToB), while adding an exellent defencive ability.

phew, that came out long... i still think the "noboby likes spears but me" is the most usefull contribution to this thread

I like spears...

Spears are underestimated. It takes a while before you get a really good one, but it's a corker. The spear of the Unicorn is nice, but Impaler is awesome and once upgraded it's really insane. Then Ixil's spike and that spear from the Sola MOD - youch!

In halberds, Wave is TEH LOSE IMAO - Dragonsbreath (the +4 halberd from the Underdark) with all the elemental damage is way better overall - and free- the only real benefit of wave is fighting fire elementals, and the elemental staff is better for that, really. There's a bunch of good staves out there, especially SotM, Staff of the Ram, even dull old Staff of Rynn

Blackrazor is a nice weapon, but by the time you get it, there are better ones, as discussed. Really, upgraded Angurduval is about the only really impressive all-around longsword (well, except for Sola's moonblade), though the equalizer is a good off-hander.

I want to like the Silver sword, but I just can't - all the critters you'd care about insta-killing are immune to the effect, and otherwise it's just a +3 two hander, and, like Blackrazor, you really only get to use it in ToB.

Axes, flails, clubs and hammers are all viable, the only good mace (ither than MoD vs. undead) is the Handmaiden's mace, which is ok for Viconia in SoA, but maces just fizzle out in ToB. In katanas, well CF + either Sanchuudoku (most melee types) or Dakon'Zerth (fighter/mage, swash/mage or bard) is just a super combination.

Originally posted by fable
With respect, I've never fully understood the raves I've read about the Flail of Ages. Yes, I've used it in two run-throughs, giving it once to Jaheira and another time, to Viconia. Yes, it can become a nice +3 weapon to have on your side. But its cold, acid and fire damages are minimal. So without meaning to make anybody feel challenged, why do you like the Flail of Ages so much?

If you gave it to Jaheira I can see why you thought it useless. She won't even be able to equip it...

Originally posted by Astafas
If you gave it to Jaheira I can see why you thought it useless. She won't even be able to equip it...

Unless he SK.ed to a cleric/ranger

Originally posted by Elemental ZOOT
Everyone think Carosymr is so good- so what? You really have to make your own P.C to use it well for Keldorn has bad dexterity and bad chances to hit. Its a great weapon but still not the best.

How can you say that Keldorn has bad chances to hit?
He has fighter thac0 progression and remember that with melee its str. that count, not dex (which count for ranged thac0), so his thac0 is great! (only master fighters gets better thac0 btw).

As for your archer, you would best fitted with short bows, Tuigan bow (3 attack/rnd !!!) Gesen bow is the best combo for an archer (using the Gesen only against stone skinned mages and monster that need high enchanted weapon to be hited); Tach0 for an archer is not an issue, he already has a great thac0 that enables him to hit everything, but the extra attack is a huge bonus.

Originally posted by lompo
How can you say that Keldorn has bad chances to hit?
He has fighter thac0 progression and remember that with melee its str. that count, not dex (which count for ranged thac0), so his thac0 is great! (only master fighters gets better thac0 btw).

Keldorn's a first-rate tank, as you point out. His dexterity means he's a sucker for long-ranged attacks, but so what? That's why the gods gave us wizards.

If you gave it to Jaheira I can see why you thought it useless. She won't even be able to equip it...

Yes, @Astafas. You've caught me in an error. As old as I am, you can bet it isn't first, and with any luck, it won't be the last.

And the answer is...

"it depends"!

Playing a dual-weilding F/C, I was surprised at just how good the FoA really is - I hadn't used it much before. Apart from the various points made above, I find the elemental damage very handy for identifying what immunities an enemy has. Also, at +5 it probably does more damage than any other weapon.

But *nothing* can match CF's "equipped" ability - even Storm Giants only have strength 24! So it's surely a "must-have" for the off-hand.

Then again, the Ravager +6 is possibly the most deadly offensive weapon, while the Axe of the Unyielding +5 runs pretty close, but only needs one hand and has great equipped abilities to boot.

In other words, it all depends on who you are and what you're doing. Foebane is particularly effective in combination with a Whirlwind. Charsomyr is peerless against mages. I've never kept Cernd in the party, but imagine he'd just luurve the Staff of the Woodlands... Then there are the ranged weapons to consider - the Gesen Bow is much-praised, but I generally prefer the "lowly" Tuigan bow because of the extra attack. Slingers can use a shield, but which is best - the Erinyes +5 or the one that gives Strength bonuses? Well, it depends on your Strength...

Etc., etc., etc. I'm afraid we're spoilt for choice, gentlefolks. There are so many goodies to choose from, esp. if including ToB & Mods. I can't even express a personal preference, coz it depends on what sort of mood I'm in! Sometimes I actually *like* Lilarcor!

On another point, I'm disappointed there are so few good long-swords around, esp. since I usually play an elf (we do still get the +1 with longswords, don't we?) Old D&D was perhaps over-dominated by longswords - almost every character who could used one, in my experience. But now they seem rather neglected, with few better than +2. I really like the Answerer & the SoA is top-notch, but one gets them so late in the game...

Anyway, that's enough blethering from me - this was supposed to be a short post!

Re: I like spears...

Originally posted by nephtu
In halberds, Wave is TEH LOSE IMAO - Dragonsbreath (the +4 halberd from the Underdark) with all the elemental damage is way better overall - and free- the only real benefit of wave is fighting fire elementals, and the elemental staff is better for that, really.

Thats what I pointed out yes. They destroy fire elementals, Efreet and salamanders on hit. No save. Plus, theres a 15% change of an extra 15 damage.

And about that Elemental staff....Im guessing ure reffering to one from a Mod??
I thought we were talking about original items only...

More...

Yes, the elemental staff is from the weapons upgrade mod - combine the air, fire and earth staves, plus the useual eye-of-newt stuff, IIRC, and - voila! A nice litlle insta-death vs. elementals item, as well as being a really good all-round (thief-usable) staff. I'm not aware of mod restrictions on the discussion - it started off as a "Carsomyr Rules!" post, and has rambled form there, so I think that at least the better known mods are certainly within the range of the topic

My big grouse against Wave is that except versus elementals / salamanders / efreeti it's really not that impressive, and it costs a bunch to get Cromwell to assemble it, when Dragonsbreath (which is really an all-round better weapon) is free and obtained almost immediately before. That just bugs me, and probably prejudices me against an otherwise ok weapon.

My big gripe, though, as discussed, is the horrible lack of compelling longswords in SoA. There are 9 gazillion longswords, but not a decent one (say, as good as Liarcor) to be had before the underdark, none above +3, and of the +3s you have:
Equalizer - a solid offhand weapon, but nothing stellar
Sword of Roses - +3 & +Charisma - be still, my beating heart.
Blackrazor - nice sword, but you can use it for (at maximum) 5 fights in SoA, and you have to take the evil choice on that tear to keep it - meh.

Ok, I'm done ranting now

There is flametongue. One of the easiest weapons to get and it is a +4 longsword. Bastardswords are much worse of in SoA I think.
I think the wave is okay. If you use halberds you will use dragonsbreath most of the time and the wave against specific enemies. You don't have more than one person using halberds do you? Actually halberds have a very nice progression in the game including ToB. And also even if it is expensive to assemble the wave, the parts are not very hard to come by.

7500 gp is expensive??
I thought for an adventurer that 7500 gp would be very easy to get.

The Elemental Staff on the other hand, costs 20000 gp.....

However, I agree that that staff is much more powerful.
To powerful IMO, since it also summons the 3 Greater Elementals...

Cromwells upgrades are not at all as expensive as the upgrades from the item upgrade mod. But they are not as powerful either, except for maybe crom fayer. Some of the weapons from upgrade mod are a little too good. Pitchwife+5 for example is very easy to make and extremly powerful. Waters talon a little more difficult and IMHO overpowered even for ToB. The daystar upgrade however is nice and suitable. I also like the upgrades for npc equipment. Feels nice having them use their own equipment.
I wonder why blackrazor cant be upgraded by cespenar, this must be a weapon he is familiar with as you basically get it out of his workshop. Just upgraded to +4 would have been nice, and maybe take away the haste effect as that has a tendency to screw up whirlwind.

Originally posted by Bruce Lee
Cromwells upgrades are not at all as expensive as the upgrades from the item upgrade mod. But they are not as powerful either, except for maybe crom fayer. Some of the weapons from upgrade mod are a little too good. Pitchwife+5 for example is very easy to make and extremly powerful. Waters talon a little more difficult and IMHO overpowered even for ToB. The daystar upgrade however is nice and suitable. I also like the upgrades for npc equipment. Feels nice having them use their own equipment.
I wonder why blackrazor cant be upgraded by cespenar, this must be a weapon he is familiar with as you basically get it out of his workshop. Just upgraded to +4 would have been nice, and maybe take away the haste effect as that has a tendency to screw up whirlwind.

True, but if you have things installed such as Tactics, Battles and the Sola mod, some overpowered items can be quite helpfull

Re: And the answer is...

Originally posted by Boris
"it depends"!

Playing a dual-weilding F/C, I was surprised at just how good the FoA really is - I hadn't used it much before. Apart from the various points made above, I find the elemental damage very handy for identifying what immunities an enemy has. Also, at +5 it probably does more damage than any other weapon.

But *nothing* can match CF's "equipped" ability - even Storm Giants only have strength 24! So it's surely a "must-have" for the off-hand.

urm....that's why cleric fighters are so powerful, but its not nearly as good as one would think...

ok, a fighter cleric does NOT need cf, righteous magic and draw on holy might can give you 25 strength...depending on the level, and base strength...and of course the dex con and hit points are a definate perk...

so in theory, a cleric fighter can use another off handed weapon, and take advantage of its benefits, and give cf to someone else...and still be godly on the melee area...(not to mention a boosted fighter cleric using slings with 25 strength is just obscene...due to a game engine bug, ALL slings in the game boosts damage due to strength) but think about the off hand choices...

all the really really killer off hand weapons are edged...like equalizer, belm, kundane, purifier, arbane...the only off handed blunt weapon i can think off the top of the head that offers a substantical benefit is mace of disruption, upgraded...urg...neg plane protection is not all that important, after amulet of power...

so actually have to say a paladin is better than a cleric fighter, not because its a more powerful class, because it is more powerful, but because of the equipment choices...draw on holy might, and excellent weapon choices...

Re: More...

Originally posted by nephtu
My big gripe, though, as discussed, is the horrible lack of compelling longswords in SoA. There are 9 gazillion longswords, but not a decent one (say, as good as Liarcor) to be had before the underdark, none above +3, and of the +3s you have:
Equalizer - a solid offhand weapon, but nothing stellar
Sword of Roses - +3 & +Charisma - be still, my beating heart.
Blackrazor - nice sword, but you can use it for (at maximum) 5 fights in SoA, and you have to take the evil choice on that tear to keep it - meh.

Ok, I'm done ranting now

the equalizer is an excellent excellent off handed weapon...you get the damage bonuses against chaotic evil and lawful good enemies, and mind shield protection is excellent for a kensai mage who cannot wear helms...

GREED: Send someone with Boots of Speed and a Mind Flayer Control Circlet to go talk to the Enslaved Genie. As soon as you get him in visual range, use the Circlet on him. He will initiate conversation, and you should cheerfully hand over Blackrazor. Just as he is beginning to Dimension Door away, the Circlet will kick in, and you can now control him and disrupt his Dimension Door. Now kill him, and he'll drop Blackrazor. Net Result: Good Bhaal Tear, no Alignment Change, Blackrazor, 31K EXP.

Off-handers

Yes, the bulk of the best off-handers are slashers, which tends to make two handers or weapon/shield choices preferred for those classes who have more restrictive weapon choices - rather appropriate, don't ya think?

Two good off-hand blunts spring to mind, though neither is as groovy as those you've mentioned (or Sanchuudoku from tactics, my personal fave) :

Defender of Easthaven (Joluv - ok, it's bonus merchants, but still) - the 10% damage resistance is useful in a variety of circumstances, especially for a multiclass fighter/cleric....

Mauler +2 (Bernard) - 18 STR. Great for a frail cleric like Aerie or Viconia - put a point into dual wield, and while they will just about NEVER hit anything offhand unless buffed to the eyeballs, you don't have to tie up a STR item and they can still carry things unbuffed.

Why am I not surprised UU would figure out a way to do the Good Tear and still keep Blackrazor ?

NB - the downside on Paladins vs. Ftr/Clerics is that while they DO have a broader choice of weapons, Carsomyr tends to overshadow all other options unless you have two Paladins - which hardly bears thinking about