Making the best Ranger, forget logbows and stick to short bows?

Genesis · Post by **Genesis** » Thu Mar 08, 2001 12:24 pm

Yup I did 55 pts of damage on a crit hit last night with my strongarm bow. I have 5 slots in longbow and i am wearing a girdle of str so i have

19 str
Grand master longbow
I am an ELF. (i think they get a bonus to longbows)

two · Post by **two** » Thu Mar 08, 2001 12:31 pm

Originally posted by Saigo:
two, check out Nighthawk's math above for the Strongarm bow. 17.5 damage is a good average, but I always do closer to 25 points per attack. The 19 strength (+7 damage) would be what makes the difference. Double that for critical hits, and you get @ 50pts damage. 150pts per round is unlikely, but possible. Still, the average should be closer to 100 (4 attacks @ 25 pts).

First post bombed -- trying again --

I did read his excellent post about av. damage. But this strength thing is not definitive yet.

Could somebody with access to the StrongArm do an experiment on a kobold or something? Use StrongArm with normal arrows, and try to calculate if stength is added. Use Draw Upon Holy Might or something to raise strength even above 19 and see if it increases damage even more. That would pretty much settle it if it does.

If strength damage IS added, this tilts the debate towards longbows being better. If you have to hit +4 use a sword.

Saigo · Post by **Saigo** » Thu Mar 08, 2001 12:31 pm

Originally posted by Genesis:

I am an ELF. (i think they get a bonus to longbows)

They do get a +1 bonus to hit and damage with swords and bows (all bows, I think). The ability to get 19 dexterity is nice for missile weapons, too.

Saigo · Post by **Saigo** » Thu Mar 08, 2001 12:41 pm

two, I was postulating the strength bonus based on inferrence. I don't think it's possible to do 25 points of damage per hit without the strength bonus. Being at work right now, I can't perform the experiment.

Check my math, but if you add all the bonuses Nighthawk lists and assume max arrow damage (6 points), the total should be twenty. The strength bonus is the only thing I can think of that would account for the extra damage.

Genesis · Post by **Genesis** » Thu Mar 08, 2001 1:41 pm

I also notice that nighthawks calculations does not include the +1 to hit and dam that archers get for every 3 levels.

Saigo · Post by **Saigo** » Thu Mar 08, 2001 1:51 pm

Originally posted by Genesis:
I also notice that nighthawks calculations does not include the +1 to hit and dam that archers get for every 3 levels.

Sure it does. "+5 for level 17 archer bonus"

Jeru da`Damaja · Post by **Jeru da`Damaja** » Thu Mar 08, 2001 1:52 pm

wow! i come back after working all nite and 43 posts, hehe. I think i found a good topic. I will install that shadow keep and check it out i appreciate all the helpful info everyone has prtovided! thanx a ton, BG2 players are the best and most helpful in the online gaming community by far! bless all of you have fun and prosper!

Saigo · Post by **Saigo** » Thu Mar 08, 2001 1:54 pm

Jeru: de nada

TheHellion · Post by **TheHellion** » Thu Mar 08, 2001 5:01 pm

Originally posted by two
First post bombed -- trying again --

I did read his excellent post about av. damage. But this strength thing is not definitive yet.

Could somebody with access to the StrongArm do an experiment on a kobold or something? Use StrongArm with normal arrows, and try to calculate if stength is added. Use Draw Upon Holy Might or something to raise strength even above 19 and see if it increases damage even more. That would pretty much settle it if it does.

If strength damage IS added, this tilts the debate towards longbows being better. If you have to hit +4 use a sword.

I'm positive that this is the case. That's how it works in the PnP game, and even the Strongarm's +3 to damage wouldn't make the results vary that greatly.

Still gonna have to disagree with the scales being tipped in favor of the longbows, especially since I brought up the strength bonus in the first place.

Switching to a melee weapon as an archer makes you suck. Plain and simple. I can do 2 + 1d8 damage five or six times, potentially 60 points of damge, with the short bow of Gesen, and that's a heck of a lot more than I could do with a melee weapon that I'm only proficient in. A pure ranger, on the other hand, could be quite versatile with the Strongarm and a nice two-handed weapon, or perhaps even taking advantage of the automatic specialization in two-weapon fighting by dual-wielding.

As has already been said, it basically boils down to preference. As an archer, I'm still 100% sure that the Tansheron and Gesen short bows are the way to go. For a while there, you guys almost had me convinced.

[This message has been edited by TheHellion (edited 03-08-2001).]

Giles the Sorcerer · Post by **Giles the Sorcerer** » Thu Mar 08, 2001 8:36 pm

First, with all the ridiculous items in the game, proficient is all you need to wipe the floor with things.

But, the real key is, get a different party member or 5 to kill the +4 only things, not to mention of course, you can keep Gesan on you even if you don't have points in it.

TheHellion · Post by **TheHellion** » Thu Mar 08, 2001 10:46 pm

Originally posted by Giles the Sorcerer:
First, with all the ridiculous items in the game, proficient is all you need to wipe the floor with things.

But, the real key is, get a different party member or 5 to kill the +4 only things, not to mention of course, you can keep Gesan on you even if you don't have points in it.

When you're up against monsters immune to +2 and weaker weapons, the extra attacks and bonus to hit/damage from specialization makes a world of difference. You also need a pretty low armor class to go toe-to-toe with things like a Balor, and that's tough for an archer; especially so when you're dumping your best AC-enhancing stuff onto your tanks.

Letting your other party members handle tough monsters is going to mean that your archer takes a back seat to a lot of the fighting throughout the game. Always a possibility, just not my favorite one.

two · Post by **two** » Fri Mar 09, 2001 5:31 am

I don't mean to keep harping on this, but I cannot currently do this experiment...could somebody test the STRONGARM theory?

I don't think it has been shown yet, definitively, whether StrongArm lets you add strength bonus to arrow damage or not.

I am particularly curious whether if you get your str. up to 22-25, if you arrow damage could then get into the 30-60 range before criticals.

Or does strongarm JUST allow 19 str. damage bonuses? Or does it allow NO str. bonuses?

Thanks very much in advance, I know I'm asking somebody to run an experiment for me, but I can't physically do it for myself. Thank you.

Nighthawk · Post by **Nighthawk** » Fri Mar 09, 2001 8:35 am

Still haven't gotten to test out the Strongarm, but I did notice something interesting last night with Tuigan. I switched over to Arrows of Biting against one of the more powerful monsters I was fighting and although it made its saves, I hit it 3 times and did 25 damage with each hit....and those weren't crits. So, even a level 9 archer with Tuigan and w/o Gauntlets can do 50 on a crit with the right arrows. I wonder what the undocumented bonus to damage is with the Biting arrows.

two · Post by **two** » Fri Mar 09, 2001 3:23 pm

Originally posted by Nighthawk:
Still haven't gotten to test out the Strongarm, but I did notice something interesting last night with Tuigan. I switched over to Arrows of Biting against one of the more powerful monsters I was fighting and although it made its saves, I hit it 3 times and did 25 damage with each hit....and those weren't crits. So, even a level 9 archer with Tuigan and w/o Gauntlets can do 50 on a crit with the right arrows. I wonder what the undocumented bonus to damage is with the Biting arrows.

INTERESTING...WELL WE JUST WON'T KNOW WHICH IS TRULY BETTER UNTIL THE STRENGTH BONUS THING IS TESTED OUT...I HOPE SOMEBODY CAN DO THIS...I don't have the game loaded right now becuase I have to get "real" work done or I would check myself.

Could it be the case that with a RANGER the logbow is better than a shortbow? That the shortbow only gets more attacks if you are an ARCHER or something? I think this line of reasoning daft, personally, but just wondering if there is something in archers/rangers that makes a difference. Like archers get an extra attack with short bows they don't with long bows, which ranger's don't get either. (I'm not talking about the extra Tuigian attack either).

Personally, I think short bows way better if this strength bonus thing is false. IF str. damage is added, StrongArm could dish out brutal damage.

Since archers get called shot, and can be improve hasted, what amount of damage is that? Av. dam=20 with called shot critical maybe 30? per shot*4 attacks/round*2(imp/ haste)=210 if they all hit. Per round? That could be seriously nasty.

TheHellion · Post by **TheHellion** » Fri Mar 09, 2001 6:42 pm

Two, I'll try to get around to testing the Strongarm tonight.

[This message has been edited by TheHellion (edited 03-09-2001).]

ltldrgn1 · Post by **ltldrgn1** » Fri Mar 09, 2001 8:17 pm

Here are some numbers for you.

Ranger-Archer
Str 19
5 * in longbow, 4* in shortbow

Strongarm- 19,19,18,15,15,18,15,15,15, crit 40
non-magical composite bow- 17,13,16

Gesen short bow- 12 +6 elec., 12 +6 elec,, 12 +6 elec.

It doesn't appear that strength bonus is added in

(it would give an additional +7 damage which should be noticeable) Hope this helps

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