omd! CE is not only a genius, but a living legend as well! Your life appeals to me so much! I would personally love to travel the world, there are so many places i would love to see. I would, however, like to be earning money, and being independent afterwards. I figure i could live fairly cheaply, but would like to own my own home. Studying and living abroad is not ruled out either, as it seems like fun. The reason I'm thinking about all this, is that I'm at a stage in my life, where choices are having to be made, about exams etc, and everyone i talk to seems to have heir life mapped out! I guess i'd better have a vague idea as well! But i don't know what!
Thanks for all your help
Mag:Don't remember much at all of last night do you? Me:put simply.... No Mag: From what I put together of your late night drunken ramblings? Vodka, 3 girls, and then we played tic-tac-toe and slapped each other around.
[QUOTE=Maharlika]@CE: I will try to find my notes in making a curriculum and try to share them as soon as I can.
I don't see any problem there since Curriculum and Instructions are two different things.
<snip>
So far, what I can suggest is that you focus on what you perceive as very relevant areas in Psychology that your students MUST learn, couple that with lab courses so that the learners could appreciate the theoreticals and concepts handed down to them from the core subjects.
<snip>
Aside from the core subjects, you may also include elective courses that the students would find interesting and relevant to their "taste." Maybe 9 to 12 units of elective courses would be sufficient. [/QUOTE]
Thanks Mahar, your advice is much appreciated
Although setting a curriculum and performing instruction is two different things, I lack in both currently. After my post-doc period I will focus more on develop my educational skills (which thankfully also is needed for the professorship.)
Core subjects including the mandatory practise period needed as preparation for later internship and licence, will probably fill about 8 out of the 10 terms. (a study year in Sweden is split into two terms of about 20 weeks each). The other univerisites with a psychologist program in Sweden, only have 1 elective course (therapy method when you take the licence that allows you to practice psychotherapy) plus the MSc. The limitation in elective courses is due to the strict national regulations of all licence professions, so although I would like to increase the amount of elective courses, we will have to set the core courses first, as you say. For now, the focus will be on how to mix the heavy theoretical parts with lab courses and practise, since you obviously can't practise psychology freely on other human beings.
"There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance." - Hippocrates
Moderator of Planescape: Torment, Diablo I & II and Dungeon Siege forums
[QUOTE=giles337]omd! CE is not only a genius, but a living legend as well! Your life appeals to me so much! I would personally love to travel the world, there are so many places i would love to see. I would, however, like to be earning money, and being independent afterwards. [/QUOTE]
Thanks for the kind words I think I have been very privileged in being able to live my life as I did.
I think it's good that you have not set a detailed plan for your life yet. Many young people feel forced to do so due to the job market, but unfortunately most people I know who did so, regretted their choices later because their choices were not based on their authenic, genuine inner will but on strategic career planning and worries for the future. If my type of lifestyle appeals to you, then I certainly think you will do just fine working and doing other things for a while before continuing your education. Please keep me updated what you do, and also remember Fable's advice to really make the most out of your choices is terms of learning!
"There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance." - Hippocrates
Moderator of Planescape: Torment, Diablo I & II and Dungeon Siege forums
Excellent Thanks for your help guys. Much Appreciated.
Mag:Don't remember much at all of last night do you? Me:put simply.... No Mag: From what I put together of your late night drunken ramblings? Vodka, 3 girls, and then we played tic-tac-toe and slapped each other around.
1. The new psychologist education at my university
So far, everything is going fine and all important parties are extremly positive (National Agency for Higher Education, Ministry of Education, the Head Principle of my university etc) and the new education is planned to start 2007. There is a lot work left to be done of course, but the general idea is that the first 2.5 (5 terms) years will be focused on core subjects, with all the basic theoritical knowledge, lectures, seminars and labs mixed and also short visits (maybe 1 day or a half day) to labs and clinics. The 6th term will be devouted to elective courses and writing the BSc thesis. Term 7 will contain more core subjects, and term 8 is the mandatory practise term where the students gets clinical training. Term 9-10 are preparation for the internship and writing of the MSc thesis. This psychologist education will be different from those at the other Swedish university inasmuch as it focus on healthcare following empirical science and the interactive relationship between the genes, the brain and the environment. The core subjects and the licence related courses (which have to be the same for all psychology educations in Sweden) fill up almost 4 of the 5 years, but the students can choose topic for BSc and MSc as well as where do the 1-term practise period. There is only space for half a term of elective courses. (Also, the goverment demands that psychology, like medicine, must be a generalist education - specialisation occurs after the intership.)
2. My teaching
I don't know what happened this year, I must be radiating something toxic, because the students have been really crazy. These postgraduate students are always a bunch of enthusiastic and highly motivated people, but this year it's been extraordinary. The beg me to let them skip the breaks and continue the lectures, they even ask not to have a lunch break (I need it though!). When I split the class in two for a lab, several students from the first group asked if they could stay when the second group came, because they wanted to do the lab one more time! They are totally mad
At the same time, I am also a supervisor for 4 students doing different projects at my lab, and a 5th will come after new year. It's very time consuming but also quite rewarding. I've had several students in the past and I've been very happy with all of them, but this time I have encounted a really problematic one. The girl in question is an MSc in a field directly connected to my field, but she is so stupid so I wonder whether she has a learning disability. I really feel sorry for her, because she wants to become a neuroscientist and she's really trying her best I believe, but she is simply not bright enough and she also has the totally wrong kind of personality. I've already started to break her dreams by making clear to her that she lacks a lot of basic knowledge and that she must study further at least 1 more year before she can even consider looking to start a PhD. I think she was very disappointed to hear this, since she had hoped I would take her as a PhD student after she finished the project she is doing for me now. *sigh* Poor girl.
3. The general situation in Sweden
The latest national investigation of education showed that Swedish students are getting worse in maths but they improve their reading skills and their ability to question and critisise media information. This is good news IMO - very few people need advanced level of maths, but everybody needs to be able to assess media in a critical way. Media critisism is now a mandatory subject in Swedish primary school, which I think is excellent!
4. The world
Congratulations to Finland and to the Finnish students, they are world No 1 according to the latest OECD education survey (PISA) where the knowledge level of 15-year old students are measured. Finland match the top Asian countries like Hong Kong, Japan and Korea. Other Western countries high on the list are Netherlands and Canada.
Close to the middle of the document, there is an interesting part about the characteristics of "good learners".
Apart from the PISA studies, there is also the TIMSS, another way of measuring knowledge in science and maths. You can find a TIMSS table here: http://nces.ed.gov/timss/Results.asp?Results=1
I would be very interested in knowing more about the Finnish educations system since it seems to be good - anyone knows anything? Locke? Any other Finns here?
"There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance." - Hippocrates
Moderator of Planescape: Torment, Diablo I & II and Dungeon Siege forums
[QUOTE=VonDondu]A similar commercial for Slim Jim beef jerky strips showed a famous professional "wrestler" delivering the message, "Higher education got you down? Snap into a Slim Jim!" I'd say that's an accurate reflection of American priorities.[/QUOTE] Oh man, I loved that commerical! It was almost as cool as those old Kool-Aid commercials where Kool-Aid Man would burst through the wall and say "OH YEAH!"
I guess I should post something on topic.
Uh... education is good (yesss, that should do it).
Nature’s first green is gold,
Her hardest hue to hold.
Her early leaf’s a flower;
But only so an hour.
Then leaf subsides to leaf.
So Eden sank to grief,
So dawn goes down to day.
Nothing gold can stay.
I just read through the majority of this thread, my eyes started to blur after the first 2 1/2 pages and too much came to mind that I just had to put it down now before finishing reading the last few posts.
Note: My post is too long by far and must be split into sections. Just a warning and notice.
My own experiences with education aren't the norm, so I'd like to share them and my opinions on things going on in schools in my area.
First of, as I've graduated already, and have been out of school since 2001, but have younger friends who have just graduated, I'm still up to date in what is going on with schools, and whats going on with those I graduated with, their lives, and their aspirations. What gets to me, is those who go to college, not knowing what they wish to do, but have it paid for by their parents have a common answer to the question of direction to go in life. This would be, I'd have to say 1/3 of those I discussed this problem with a similar response to "well, I'm not really interested in anything and I don't know what I want to do. I'll teach I suppose". To me, who wishes to go to college, but simply, I know I'm not ready for it yet in my life and refuse to blow thousands of dollars which I'll have to borrow in a failed attempt at higher education. I know those who were handed free education by family and did so and thoroughly regret their lost chances. This reaction to my peers after graduation disgusted me, and for reasons I'll share below.
I was one of the smartest children in my school, I won't claim to be the smartest, or have the highest marks or what not, because whether or not I happened to actually be smarter than any other person is highly debatable and cannot, under any circumstances, simply be tested as so many seem to believe. Upon reaching 5th grade at my school, things started to be seperated, normal classes for most, and Advanced Math and Social Studies. I was in those advance classes, and I did well, extremely well. I spent half of my time in my 5th grade year tutoring students who simply were incapable of grasping what they were being taught. Those who TRIED, and I do mean tried, to learn despite this difficulty were sent to me and I did my best to explain things to them.
One student, and friend of mine name Jaime, he wasn't stupid, but he was failing, so I asked him what was wrong. He said he didn't like learning the way he did in class, and I asked him how he wanted to. He explained it to me, and I did it that way from then on with him, and a few other kids joined me in my teaching him. Jaime ended up going from roughly 45% in the two classes I worked on him in, to roughly 70% within one quarter of the school year. Not a great grade granted, but he went from failing miserably to passing, within less than 8 weeks simply by having everything taught in a different manner. Others followed suit. I recieved nothing for my time from the school, aside from a nod from the teachers involved and the genuine thanks and gratitude of my favorite teacher, and that of seeing my peers actually LEARN, and learn to enjoy it. I spent the first 6 years of school up until that point being nominated class clown, every year, being among the top 5 students in my class, and I spent more time in 5th grade english reading the unabridged DICTIONARY than paying attention. Why? I finished the tests given to me so quickly, that it became a running gag in the class that during a spelling exam, the teacher would deliberately hand me my test first, and by the time she was done handing them out, if I hadn't finished my test, she knew I had some sort of trouble with something. These tests were to be full class tests on fridays, and within 5 minutes I'd be done. She got annoyed with my antics out of boredom, disrupting those around me and as a joke, told me to read the dictionary instead. I did, friday afternoons, for 30 minutes every friday, I spent that time reading the dictionary. When we read books, I would read the chapter or two allotted for out time for the day, and since I couldn't go ahead, I would go back to my dictionary. I absorbed nearly half of that book during my school year. My students, and they were mine, acknowledged by everyone in my grade, became my own little cult following and I became nicknamed "Mafia Mike" after an altercation with some student who didn't like me decided to attack me, and another student tore him apart for some moron deciding to attack his tutor.
My family moved, after 5th grade, to a bigger town, with a higher standard of living, where the general attitude is, "my parents will buy me a car at 16, pay for college, and I'll get daddy's business when he retires at 40". Not too many rich people mind you, simply very well off. My family simply didn't have the means to compete with that, and as such, I was tormented terribly in this school. I stuck out, as the new kid, from the "redneck county" at first, which meant I had to be stupid right? No, I blew away the other students in grades, along with corrected their arrogent teachers mistakes in their lessons and this caused no end of problems for me. Half-way through the school year in 6th grade, they tossed me into an advanced math class with some other kids, having completely ignored my transfer papers from before, assuming my grades were off because I came from a county so far below their standards.
I did well, very well, and those who were on a similar level mentally with me, noticed this. One boy, brilliant person, hated school, we got along quite well. So bored, he started doing his homework, all of it, in German. PERFECT German in 6th grade. In the US, you simply aren't taught a foreign language in public school until 7th grade, at least where I grew up. This boy was fluent in a foreign language. The teachers had fits, which he found vastly amusing. Only one of them could read his work and had to struggle to do so. They failed him for it until his parents fought the school and get him reinstated in class, as he was dropped, from all of them. From then on, he did his work normally, and on the back, in German. Why? The school set rules on everyone to force them to spend a certain amount of time each night on each subject. In the allotted time he was given along with everyone else, that was what he could accomplish. He was skipped two grades the next year and I really never saw him again after that.
"You can do whatever you want to me." "Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?" "So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
On to Middle school. 7th grade. I hated it, full out hated it. The mentally of the student body was disgusting and frankly, I believe my three years in that school, 7th-9th grade forced me to learn quickly that I did not fit in with anyone my age, or close to it. I got along well with most of the teachers, as I was right about at the same mental level as them. Science class was a joke for myself and my two friends. We insulted the teacher, doodled, and joked through class, and got away with acing everything. History, same. A game was made up every quarter to give those who were failing a chance to boost their grade enough to pass. The teacher was very nice man. I caught the brunt of the cruelty of my peers and as such, I took the extra credit for myself and those in whatever group I ended up in. Why? My little revenge, I had a perfect score and the others knew it. I had no reason to seek that credit other than spite, my little nod to those who tormented me for the past few months. I stooped to their level once every quarter, and once alone. I took their last chance at passing and crushed it. The teacher loved me except for those four days out of the year. He knew why I did it though, and I didn't break the rules, so didn't do anything. The test at the end of the year for his class, was my first final exam. A few hundred multiple choice history questions. Standard time estimated for it to take for completion, 3 hours. I did it in 25 minutes. I was forced to sit and stay for 2 hours. I doodled all over my test. I recieved a 98% on the exam.
8th grade, the grand experiment of my school to improve grades and interest in education. Rather than 8 periods during a school day, 42 minutes a piece with 4 minute breaks in between to see you from one class, to your locker, to another; it was switched to 4 periods, with a lunch, alternating half your classes one day, and half another. Block scheduling. Unfortunately, there were the Advanced classes to account for, and those simply would not fit in with the rest of the schedule. The entire grade was split. Standard days for smart kids, block schedule for the rest of them. This, was my favorite year of school, hands down. Some classes were miserable, as half of the kids hated me still for various reasons, but half of my classes, were all the same kids in those classes. We got to know each other very well and were like a little family. I spent roughly 4 hours a day, every day with these kids and it was great. Science was a blast, the teacher set herself on fire, we did minor physics and chemistry and such. We dropped stuff off the roof. The class troublemaker was constantly outwitted by her, from the first day of her class with us. He mocked her and she showed him how the little shower in the room worked for hazardous chemicals, and he spent the rest of the day soaking wet. We tore through the material to the point, we sat idle for a week while the teacher came up with new material for us to learn above and beyond our advanced class curriculum.
I loved this. I had been forced into reading my books in english class upside down simply to keep pace with the other students. The only way I could read slow enough to accomidate the others was to turn my book upside down and read things that way. In 5th grade, I took a test, the US SAT's, which you take at the end of high school, 11th grade if I recall correctly...not sure. A small group of students from a district of NY were selected at my age to take this test and see how we did. I scored high enough to take it again the next year and that ended, as it was for a certain age selection only. They processed the results and sent them back to my family and kept them for statistics. At that age, my reading ability was, I cannot recall exactly, comprehension and simple raw ability to read were in two different categories, one a senior in high school, 12th grade, the other 2nd year of college. I believe it was comprehension and reading ability in that order above. This was at 5th grade. I could read as fast and the same stuff as Sophomore college students and understand what those about to graduate high school were being handed in class. I went from seeing reading in school, and there was tons of it, as its across the board in every class but math and gym, as a punishment and chore to something I could enjoy and do at my own pace because those in my class were at my same level.
Block scheduling failed its trial in our school that year, and as a result it went back to the way it had been. Our class requested to be kept apart from the others again, it was turned down. There was no need for it to occur the principal said, no problems warranting fitting the schedule around us like last year. Every single student in our group of 27 kids in my four classes we had together, ALL of us saw our grades drop the next year, some more than others for the first half of the year until we readjusted to going back to accomodating ourselves to the pace of everyone else.
I could keep going, but that just gives you an idea.
Other points, discipline. The shootings of american schools, I was in school during this little era. The response, was mind boggling. Columbine...a friend of mine now went to school there, he moved up here, and my ex, she lived near there and they've informed me this past year of what truly happened there. My friend Scott knew those kids, and he said the whole lot of the staff running the discipline section of the school should burn for what went down. Why? I'll give my piece on what happened in my school.
I was booted from my school, weeks after the first two shootings happened. A student in my study hall, a free period you can select rather than an elective in high school, or if it so happens they can't schedule you into a class at that point in the day (my situation), happened to take a dislike to me. Reason was, I was a geek, and I had a football player friend. He was an ex-linebacker for a different school and he transferred to ours because of trouble there. He tormented me for months, to the point my friend interceded on my behalf a number of times. He hid, in the bathroom beside our room, waited for me to go by and take out my books at my desk and put my bag under my chair like I always did, ran into the room, and hit me from behind and knocked me across the room into the bookcase against the wall. I chased him down until he ran into the teacher shouting how I'd make him pay. The teacher wasn't there when he hit me, but had come into the room as I was knocking over desks to go after him and heard what I said. I was dragged, and I do mean, DRAGGED to the office, my parents called in and summarily lectured and expelled until I had gotten psychiatric evaluation. The school psychologist asked me some questions in the meeting, I was horribly upset, and in this instance, too frustrated to prevent being sarcastic and my answers probably led to that decision. I passed the little tests, and had to deal with tutors for a month and a half. The principle, hated me. I was accepted back into school, but he made his school psychologists run her own tests, in school. She adored me, and we got along great. I was tested for my I.Q., different random mental ability tests, odd, obscure ones, and tested for personality flaws, insanity, etc. I spent 6 hours a week with her in her office testing for two months. All at his order. The I.Q. test came last, and I have a history of bad health, mainly due to stress from a large number of sources, so I had a migraine that day. The test showed I fit into the 97 percentile among the US, meaning only 3% of those in my country are smarter than me essentially. She congratulated me, and handed her last test into the principle and said we'd be done and I wouldn't be bothered by him again. Wrong, she dragged me out of the hallway passing by her office before my last class and told me the principle had lost it when she handed him the tests and ordered her out of his office screaming and shouting for the secretary to get the superintendant on the phone. I was lost on why and I told her so, she said he was hoping I'd be kicked out again based on her discoveries because of what I'd said to him in our first meeting after I was attacked. She told me to go to class so I wouldn't be late and I did. Leaving school, I had to pass his office and he grabbed me, and told me if I ever showed up on his school grounds again, he'd arrest me. I had to explain to my parents I was expelled from my school, they didn't accept my story of why, or that of the psychologist as the truth, so they fought the school board and forced them to pay for tutors for me if I wasn't allowed back in school without a valid reason. They did. My father, was forced to demand some sort of action be taken against the kid who had attacked me, as I never struck him, and I had the bruises and witnessing to prove I was assaulted. The principle was shocked my dad asked, and wanted an explination of why. My father told him if no action was taken, we'd press charges and have him arrested. The principle suspended the boy for a week, while as stated above, I was expelled until I was proven sane after saying I was going to beat him for what he did.
"You can do whatever you want to me." "Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?" "So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
Another, there was a boy who moved from California to our school who was openly Bi-sexual and not afriad to flaunt it. Nothing truly offensive, except to those who were closed minded and homo-phobic, nothing to get him in trouble with really. He caught no end of trouble from his peers, but did his best to not let that phase him and I must say, he was one brave young man to do so considering the beatings I took simply for refusing to fit in with other people and being smarter than the majority. He also, wore his dead fathers old trench coat. He wore it, every day of his life after his father died. The school shootings, the whole "Trench-Coat Mafia" bull**** that went around led to him being expelled for refusing to stop wearing it, on grounds that he was a danger to his peers. No evidence for that, quite the contrary, his whole family backed up the reason he wore it, it even had his fathers initials on the thing. His friends boycotted school altogether for 2 1/2 weeks, until they were notified that if they continued to do so they would automatically fail based on missing too much school. Nothing was changed.
The principal was voted onto the school board and became superindendant for the district. Still is now. The gym teacher, who would slap his students incapable of doing what he demanded of them, including myself and my brother, and call us "***gots, faeries and queers" for not doing things as well as he wanted, still works at the school despite countless complaints. The Spanish teacher, who shows up to class late, drinks on the job, insults her students and losses her material to instruct us with, DAILY, and I mean showing up 15 minutes late, drinking booze out of a coffee mug, and cursing at us in spanish, guess what? Still works there, despite a petition signed by 80% of her students to see her fired. The english teacher who sexually harrassed eighth grade girls through my time with him, taught glass with a hard-on and stared up their skirts, well he's not teaching anymore as he died in a car crash. They did put up a plaque on the wall in his name though, made the library his own memorial for "32 years of dedicated, loving, and appreciated service to his students". The young woman who were his students, BURNED that first plaque, in the cafeteria to show what they thought of the old man. Their complaints about his actions fell on deaf ears too. The principal made a new plaque, solid steel so it couldn't be destroyed so easily.
People want to start fixing schools?
* Higher standards for teachers, secretaries, principals, etc.
* Reviewing by the parents, the complaints held by the student body on a regular basis, set aside by a student elected council of some sort, to inform not only the school staff, but the families what is going on inside the school.
* Getting rid of the rules of tenure for teachers, preventing those who have worked a certain length of time for being fired, even under horrible circumstances as I noted above.
* Alternative methods of teaching, and screening for students with sub-par grades, across the board to see if its not the students fault for doing poorly, but the simple fact they process information in a different manner.
* Seperate classes, based on intellectual levels, across the board.
* Higher focus on education, along with a higher budget to pay teachers better, to pay those who CARE for teaching their students better. A higher budget altogether, to afford the supplies needed to run a school properly
* A standard program, to instill in others a basic understanding of humanity. Basic psychology and Socialogy for everyone might do WONDERS for society as a whole.
* True discipline for those who CAUSE trouble, rather than those who are targeted by trouble. (It was not uncommon in my school for groups of kids to harrass someone until that target was expelled, over and over and over and over. The school would rather not expell groups of people year after year, but just a few, spread out of the year. It looked better on their record see.)
* Some sort of checks and balance system instilled in the whole school, to assure that if someone in the staff was doing something wrong, the students had a way to seek out help, and recieve it. Too often teachers and those above them got away with doing whatever they wanted and complaints were squashed with punishment.
* Preperation for reality in school. I say this, as too many people simply have no clue of reality in the town I went to school for the last half of it, and in a different manner wherever I seen others. From the concept of what things cost, to how to act to others, to how tough it really is to find a job, how to keep and find a job, etc.
* Some sort of protection instilled on those who are constantly tormented, and punishment for those doing it. It IS human nature to attack others different, in fact, most, if not all other species do it. In a setting where you are to learn, when you do not feel safe being yourself however, it is VERY hard to retain anything tossed your way.
I can't think of anymore at the moment, to leave all of this off, I'd like to throw in something I discussed with a teacher years ago in my disgust of the school system. I asked him what the point was, of all of what we were taught, and asked for his honest opinion on it. His reply, "What your taught, is to provide you a background, in the case you seek higher knowledge. If you don't seek such higher knowledge, well we teach you how to learn. The content, a good deal of it, isn't the important part, the method, is. Anything you retain is just gravy. It's in your best interest to keep learning, and do your best to retain what you can, but it's by no means necessary. I can't for the life of me do math beyond doing my bills, I can't understand science, but thats ok, because I teach english. So long as I know literature, I'm fine."
That, more than anything throughout my education, has stuck with me. Why? It rings of truth more than anything else which was said to me in my years in school. I learned how to learn there, the rest aside from a basic knowledge of math, science, history, reading, writing, health and fitness is all worthless in most instances of your life outside of any career which demands knowledge in certain topics. I do not need to square root numbers if I end up flipping burgers in a restuarant now do I? I'll have more later I'm thinking, and I'm assuming there will be no end to comments on all that too.
I really didn't realize I had rambled on this much, I apoligize for the enormous length. I have a tendency to do so though.
"You can do whatever you want to me." "Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?" "So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
Some good ideas, there, Magrus. Your school doesn't sound too different from the one I attended, though mine was a bit more subtle in trying to drive home the fact that it wasn't an educational institution, but a penitentiary. Your solutions, though, won't touch the causes of poor schooling in the US: the view that education really doesn't matter. The upper management class views it as a way of socializing a bunch of employees who only need to learn to accept what they're told, and stand in line. Parents largely use schools as daycares while they're at work. Until education is truly regarded as a priority of the first order, teaching will continue to be a poorly paid profession that attracts largely people who can't get jobs elsewhere.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
There are a lot of things going into the situation outside of the class rooms themselves. The general opinion of the worth of the schooling of everyone involved is key. Something too, I noticed a great deal of political focus by the staff at the top of the school, rather than educational. A good number of local politicians enter into education to use it as a springboard for election around here. I see this is a problem, whether or not someone is doing there job well for the most part. Someone running the education of hundreds of students should be in that position for a general love of the job they have and not an alterior motive to move upwards in their career.
I'd have to say the problem with the outlook on American families with school is general arrogance. Our country is rich, powerful and thats the bottom line for most people as they see it. The overall picture is, we're slipping downhill in quite a large number of aspects of our lives and too many are too blind to see it. The fact that other countries, the people are forced to educate themselves to keep a family fed and sheltered and here, well off families shrug off the need to push their kids in the right direction is killing our economy, schools, etc. I had to work for everything I earned as a kid, I grew up around teens who were handed cars as birthday presents, and if they didn't end up enjoying the first, a new one was given. How can you get a decent grip on reality in a situation like that?
Those gifted academically are punished for it for the entire academic existance they end up being forced to endure, and see graduation as a freedom for torment. Being told by your teachers and parents "it's ok, you'll be there boss someday" does nothing whatsoever to keep you happy and healthy while your in school. These are the people that are actually attempting to learn, and doing well at it. No wonder our schools are doing horribly. The general consensus among students is its great to be a moron and waste your time with fashion and whatevers the most expensive trend your parents can buy you.
Parents, well, I don't know what to say about that. A good number of them have issues of their own to deal with, and are too stressed to deal with the reality of their childs life unfortunately. I went to my parents with my problems in school and they were too busy to do anything more than say that everything would be fine. If they weren't too caught up in their lives, perhaps them saying something would have altered my schooling. If other parents spoke up regularly, things might get changed inside the schools. Teachers unaware of how bad things are might stand up and demand change and so on up the ladder.
The political end of things, IMHO, I think the American government needs a serious overhaul in general, along with those in political positions given a reality check on their jobs and getting their salaries requires actually doing their jobs. Priorities need to be changed as well. It's all very well and good for those involved to assure they end up getting richer and using their power to do so, but it ends up choking those below them and if I could see it years ago as a child, well the situation can't be anything good. The problems with our economy, why not start at the education level and see that those you're hiring are actually educated in a manner thats worth something?
Too often higher education is seen as a means to profit around me. I've dealt with doctors who could care less about what they do and who it involves so long as there is a check at the end of the week. The fact that those with the resources, mental and financial for higher education go through it, and in higher numbers every generation that its simply a means to an end rather than a way to do what you love to do is a problem too. I've more respect for the guy taking my garbage away in his truck to support his family than the guy handing out pills without a care in the world making 5 times his annual salary. Why? The guy covered in garbage cares about his family enough to BE covered in garbage just to see they are fed and clothed. The guy tossing pills at the people wandering into his office, doesn't care enough to find out whats truly wrong with his patients and see to it they are getting better.
There are many, many systems in place that simply need to be systematically analyzed, torn apart, and restructured here. Health care, hospitals, education, government, etc. None of that will happen until the general population has been thoroughly burned in numbers great enough to change the way they can alter a vote though. Even then, will they be intelligent enough to see what the problem is, and where it's coming from?
Dealing with the people I dealt with in school, from my peers, to staff, all the way to the person who ran my district, I lost faith years ago in the education system. Thinking outside the box is encouraged, technically. Unless it creates more work the teacher or students, then your drowned out or told to be quiet. Working more efficiently than others is discouraged, you disrupt the class. Informing your teacher that they're incompetant and correcting them in their mistakes, and proving it, in writing, in your textbook, well thats heresy.
The daycare thing, I agree. It's a way to shove your kids in a room for half the day without a worry in the world, if your kid doesn't come home at night, it has to be the schools fault, and until then, the schools well enough to deal with whatever may happen when that kid is within its care. Thats time you don't have to bother with worrying about your children. The state does it for you, it's what your taxes are being used for.
Starting with parents, then the child, then the teachers, the principles, on up to politicians, everyones view must change, everyone, or at least a large majority, and they need to speak up. Otherwise, nothing will be changed. The parent teacher meetings are a joke. Do you really think the schools allow the teachers to say that a student, just last week, caught a beating so severe he couldn't come back to school for a week, or that your kids don't care about what it is they're being forced to read? No, that means no one there is doing their job correctly and they'll be fired. You hear what your meant to hear as a parent on your tour through the walls of those schools. You drown out your kids, because hey, in your day, things were twice as bad as they had it today. Except kids didn't lose it and fire rounds from a semi-automatic into a crowd in your day. My fathers a prime example, along with my grandparents. EVERYTHING was tougher in their day and age, and they're stronger having dealt with it. Maybe, in some things. Pride doesn't save your children though. It doesn't guarantee they'll care about you later in life either when you tune out their needs when they can't take of themselves either.
In my freetime in class, after completing my work, I'd think about what I noticed in school. I noticed that the foreign exchanged students, the off-the-boat immigrants, the people who's parents had escaped our "third world countries", the poor kids, they excelled. While those who's parents were well off and handed their kids everything could care less. You could tell this just by looking at the kids. Maybe the teachers did care at some point in their career, and just gave up. They get paid either way too, and why put in extra effort when the kids who want to learn, for the most part pass, and those who don't fail. The ones with true problems are shipped off to special education, and thats that.
"You can do whatever you want to me." "Oh, so I can crate you and hide you in the warehouse at the end of Raiders?" "So funny, kiss me funny boy!" / *Sprays mace* " I know, I know, bad for the ozone"
[QUOTE=Kayless]I guess I should post something on topic.
Uh... education is good (yesss, that should do it). [/QUOTE]
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This thread is pretty long and has a lot of great posts in it. I have been intentionally avoiding it for a while because I thought I might get in an argument and wasn't in the mood for one at the time. Consequently there is too much here for me to reply to, but I don't feel the need to argue with anyone on these issues. There were a few issues I would like to address.
Teacher pay: I do think that teachers in the US, and probably a lot of other places, are grossly underpaid. I don't however think that primary and secondary teachers should be getting a lot of money. I think that paying teachers too well tends to attract people that think it is an easy job with good pay. I think median income for middle-class is probably fair without taking the emphasis off learning and on money.
Discipline: I agree that discipline is schools is a little off. I was suspended a few times in high school and I loved every minute of it. My suspensions were the result of me being anti-authority and very anti-sports. All it took was a little fast talk with my parents and they were convinced it was the school's fault. I then had an easy vacation. I got an in-school suspension once also, I can't remember why. This was much more of a punishment as I was in absolute isolation, but it also meant that I missed whatever instruction was going on that day in class. Not really so good. Saterday-school might be good, but that isn't always doable for parents. There aren't any easy answers to this question, but good administrators should be able to tailor discipline to the student so that it best meets the needs of the individual.
Summer Vacation: While the cast majority of America is no longer agrarian and has no need for a long summer vacation, this was not the case in agricultural Iowa where I grew up. Even with the long summer break, many of my classmates left school early in the fall or didn't come to schol at all for the first few weeks becasue they were needed on the farm. These seem to also be the same people not likely to get post-secondary education. They should not have to miss out on the only schooling they may ever receive. For most of the US though, this is logical. I would like to see a longer school day for High School students though.
Emphasis on Students: I think one major problem with US schools is that there is a large emphasis on work. The schools intentionally inflate grades so that anyone that is willing to work hard and do extra work can get good grades. Also, instead of trying to instill knowlenge and thinking in students, schools want to make students that are able to easily obtain jobs. There is no preparation for life. Elementary school prepares you for middle school, prepares you for high school, prepares you for college, prepares you for a job.
Those are just some things that stuck out in my mind.
"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security,
will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson
Your life appeals to me so much! I would personally love to travel the world, there are so many places i would love to see. I would, however, like to be earning money, and being independent afterwards. I figure i could live fairly cheaply, but would like to own my own home. Studying and living abroad is not ruled out either, as it seems like fun. The reason I'm thinking about all this, is that I'm at a stage in my life, where choices are having to be made, about exams etc, and everyone i talk to seems to have heir life mapped out! I guess i'd better have a vague idea as well! But i don't know what!
