Mysterious emails - From a friend???(SPOILERS)

[Bucky]

Thank God someone else wrote that before I did. I agree with Hawksfire completely. It's not the real "Caine". Read the load screens...they even mention that in recent nights there have been a rash of "Caine" spottings that are dubious. Even the P&P game had sub-plots with minor vampires going around calling themselves "Caine". Doesn't mean they are the real deal. Caine wouldn't have one iota of intrest in you, Jack, LaCroix or any Vamp in the game other than to maybe feed off you. He's the first vampire, mortal blood doesn't work for him any more so that leaves you. That alone should clue you in as to why he wouldn't help you.

[Jean_sans_terre]

[QUOTE=tomataus]I firmly believe it was the driver who sent the emails, although just because he seems to know a lot of what's going on doesn't mean he's Caine. A lot of elders have a knack for digging up information.

I hypothesize he is either a) a Malkavian, or b) a True Brujah. If not, then he could be Caine.

Here are my reasons: (CAUTION: SPOILERS)

He could be Malk cuz:
a) He's not ugly but he knows too much. As Grout proves, Malks have astonishing insight on things happening around them, even though it's not as straight-forward to us sane people as it is to them. (n.b. then again he could be Nosferatu using the real Obfuscate rules to change his/her appearance)

b) The uneasy feeling vampires get since the arrival of the sarcophagus may actually have been the Malkavian Madness Network. Basically, Malks can unconciously tap into this Network and hear voices and basically eavesdrop on other Malks (or something like that). If I am not mistaken, only really old and powerful Malks can activate the network.

c) He doesn't respond with straight answers, bordering on riddling.

He could be True Brujah cuz:
a) According to Johansen (the professor), it is unusual that the sarcophagus is in pristine condition. The sarcophagus may have been touched with a discipline called Temporis, which basically tampers with time. (n.b.True Brujah had Temporis instead of Celerity which is a watered down version of Temporis)

b) I've read somewhere that if a Temporis discipline is used, the effects may actually be felt. This may have been the uneasy feeling Vamps get since the Sarcophagus's arrival.

c) Messararch supposedly lived for 250 years, but we see his corpse in the end. Which means he is not a vampire, but most probably a Ghoul of the driver. I suppose the Driver has Brujah-like qualities since he keeps on allowing, or perhaps sending his ghoul into battle during Messararch's reign. Of course, this reasoning is flawed, cuz ghouls who die after living for so long generally turn to dust. However, the game does fudge a lot of rules.

d) he seems to be aligned with the anarchs, especially Jack. And Brujah seem more prone to becoming Anarchs than other clans. Additionally,Strauss reveals (at least in the subtitles) that your sire was an anarch, which is probably why he choses to help you.

He could be Caine cuz:

a) he can theoretically do anything other vampires can do

b) Lillith (or a Lillith figure to be exact) is carved on the Sarcophagus.

c) a page from the Society of Leopold shows the sarcophagus and "Cain slaying Abel" in the same page.


On a side note that I found interesting, the driver may have also given the main character some of his blood, or forced the main character to diablerize another ancient vampire; then made him/her forget it happened. I mention this because the Tzimisce mentions in the "Hell at the Hollowbrook Hotel" mission that your blood has become stronger since your last encounter at King's Way mansion. And goes on further by asking "Doesn't it make you wonder?"
Additionally, La Croix fails to dominate you during the ending sequence.[/QUOTE]

I think I will go with Tomataus's True Brujah theory.
Sounds good to me and I don't have think about this Caine nonsense anymore.

Hey dear Pennypincher, would that theory be in line with the scriptures?

[showoffjp]

I don't think it would be likely that Caine would be the driver, but I think that is what the developers intended to hint at(with all the Caine stuff and him speaking at the end). THis is definately not the little contradiction in this game, but I do believe that in this game, the driver was Caine...(even if it isn't at all probable...)

[pennypincher]

"Hey dear Pennypincher, would that theory be in line with the scriptures?"

Well, um.. No. Lets break it down... No, not like a rap artist.. Oh, and SPOILER SPOLIER SPOLIER... Man, almost all my posts say that now! I should have made that my NAME!

") According to Johansen (the professor), it is unusual that the sarcophagus is in pristine condition. The sarcophagus may have been touched with a discipline called Temporis, which basically tampers with time. (n.b.True Brujah had Temporis instead of Celerity which is a watered down version of Temporis)

While it is possable that the dead guys box was under the effect of Temporis, that would litterly trap it in a temporal loop, shifting it out of time with all the rest of us, making it an imobile, inert object that nobody could really interact with poroperly. Not only would the other cultures that Johansen mentioned not have been able to get the Sarcophagus, or move it, but if they did mannage to snap it out of the temporal loop cycle, the corpse would still be as fresh as a daisy, not a dried up old mummy... And chances are they prolly would have mentioned that fact that they couldn't move it from it's spot, and the same fly kept crawling up onto it, vanishing, reappearing down the base and crawling back up again... Freaky!

b) I've read somewhere that if a Temporis discipline is used, the effects may actually be felt. This may have been the uneasy feeling Vamps get since the Sarcophagus's arrival.

Yesum, but this is meant more in "Temporal Shift" sorta way... So lets pretend some elder True Brujah gets his/her temporis up to level up-teen-billion and decieds to go back in time and stamp out hitler. I think you'll find the book reffers to the actual feeling of reality shifting and groaning to bear the weight of this INSANE paradox as everyones minds are reshuffled like a deck of cards to make sense.. Less a creepy feeling of horror, and more a "Woah, did you feel that? Like everything I ever knew was twisted up inside me, and then let go like a rubber band... Werid.. Another beer?"

c) Messararch supposedly lived for 250 years, but we see his corpse in the end. Which means he is not a vampire, but most probably a Ghoul of the driver. I suppose the Driver has Brujah-like qualities since he keeps on allowing, or perhaps sending his ghoul into battle during Messararch's reign. Of course, this reasoning is flawed, cuz ghouls who die after living for so long generally turn to dust. However, the game does fudge a lot of rules."

Ah.. Um.. What? Why a ghoul of the driver? he MIGHT have been a ghoul, but plenty of acient royality adopted their fathers names to contiue their rulership unquestioned... Or maybe he was a mage... Or maybe he was just really cool? I don't think we have enough facts on that one.

d) he seems to be aligned with the anarchs, especially Jack. And Brujah seem more prone to becoming Anarchs than other clans. Additionally,Strauss reveals (at least in the subtitles) that your sire was an anarch, which is probably why he choses to help you."

Well, sadly this isn't the case for True Brujah. While Brujah are cursed with hearts of fire that burn for any cause, making them frenzy at the drop of a pin, True Brujah pride themselves on being just the oppoiste. Their clan flaw is that as they grow older, they have less and less human emotoins, to the point where they will litteraly be unable to speak to a human, because doing so is like you or I speaking to a Pork chop.. It might be a funny thing to do around your friends, but you don't REALLY expect the pork chop to know what your talking about.. And considering True Brujah know neither comedy NOR friends, the likley hood of them finding it amusing it slim.
Additionaly, the 10 or so True Brujah who are still in the modern world are 95% part of an organisation known as The Black Hand... Well, more realisticaly it's suggested that they helped found it and now watch it from afar as a curious event. However, considering not a single member of the True Brujah is less the 500 years old, and the Anarchs are all about de-throning the elders, this equaly decresses chances of them joining up.
Sorry.

As for hawksfire, I'd LIKE to agree... I'd like to HOPE it's named that way so we could all have a good laugh, I'd like to cling to the belife that if someone associated with White Wolf saw that they would gag on their sandwhich and spit in the writters faces saying "over my dead body!"
Unfortnatly, I don't think thats the case. All the cheesey secrecy about who it really is, the fact they bothered to give him a different aura (angry taxi drivers make sense to me.. But I think it's more purple then black isn't it? Maybe he's a LUSTY taxi driver.. bow chicka chicka bow!), all the corny lines hinting at acient wisdom, all the know-it-all talk and such.. I think they just might have meant it to be Caine. It makes me sad, but I think it might be.
However, if your like me, and the fact that you really don't like this idea suggest maybe you are in this regard, then you'll be able to close your eyes VERY tight and just tell yourself it's some Ravnos with a senes of humor that Jack knows trying to put the scare of the final nights into the guy who thinks he's about to open an Antedeluvians coffin. If -I- were a Ravnos, and I knew an anarch with 200 lbs of C4, it's the kinda joke I'D wanna play!
Please mummy, tell me it's a Ravnos!

[Hawksfire]

[QUOTE=pennypincher]
As for hawksfire, I'd LIKE to agree... I'd like to HOPE it's named that way so we could all have a good laugh, I'd like to cling to the belife that if someone associated with White Wolf saw that they would gag on their sandwhich and spit in the writters faces saying "over my dead body!"
Unfortnatly, I don't think thats the case. All the cheesey secrecy about who it really is, the fact they bothered to give him a different aura (angry taxi drivers make sense to me.. But I think it's more purple then black isn't it? Maybe he's a LUSTY taxi driver.. bow chicka chicka bow!), all the corny lines hinting at acient wisdom, all the know-it-all talk and such.. I think they just might have meant it to be Caine. It makes me sad, but I think it might be.
However, if your like me, and the fact that you really don't like this idea suggest maybe you are in this regard, then you'll be able to close your eyes VERY tight and just tell yourself it's some Ravnos with a senes of humor that Jack knows trying to put the scare of the final nights into the guy who thinks he's about to open an Antedeluvians coffin. If -I- were a Ravnos, and I knew an anarch with 200 lbs of C4, it's the kinda joke I'D wanna play!
Please mummy, tell me it's a Ravnos![/QUOTE]

I'll agree that I'm retrogaming the heck out of myself to believe that the driver isn't Caine. But oh man, will I ever push it.

If it's more of a purple aura, it's agressive, or lustful (as you said), or excited-- so, basically, anything at all. Heck, if you could argue that it's really dark lavender, he could be being conservative. The Ravnos idea works, but it could always be a Kiasyd! They like knowin' stuff...and...and...oh man. I'm so struggling to try to find a reason for it not to be Caine I'm talking about ki-freaking-asyds!. But I stand by my reasoning as to why it isn't Caine, regardless of not being able to find anything at all reasonable.

I'm going to go cry tears of blood now, and not in the cute vampire way. In the really unhappy fanboy sort of way.
-Genghis

[Mummy]

[QUOTE=pennypincher]
Please mummy, tell me it's a Ravnos!
[/QUOTE]

It's a Ravnos.

Trust me.

[pennypincher]

Mummy?? I thought you died all those years ago!
Well if mum says it's a Ravnos, it's a Ravnos!

I spose it could be a Kyasid too, but doesn't their skin turn a brilliant shade of blue under the light of the moon?... Thou I spose he was sheltered for the most part by the taxi.. Hmm..

[LadyGrelka]

I find it funny it seems most of you just assume that the game follows the Pen and paper game. I really am not sure who the hell the Cabbie is but I don't think I am going to rule out Caine just because it dose not follow with what the P&P game would do.

[mr_sir]

[QUOTE=LadyGrelka]I find it funny it seems most of you just assume that the game follows the Pen and paper game. I really am not sure who the hell the Cabbie is but I don't think I am going to rule out Caine just because it dose not follow with what the P&P game would do.[/QUOTE]

i have the same view on it myself. i've never played the p&p game so don't know anything about that. this means i played bloodlines with a fresh mind with nothing to influence my thinking and by the end of my first game i thought the final taxi driver was caine and that it was caine who sent the emails. i know this does not fit with the p&p game, but it just makes sense to me if you go by the pc game alone and nothing else.

[LadyGrelka]

[QUOTE=mr_sir]i have the same view on it myself. i've never played the p&p game so don't know anything about that. this means i played bloodlines with a fresh mind with nothing to influence my thinking and by the end of my first game i thought the final taxi driver was caine and that it was caine who sent the emails. i know this does not fit with the p&p game, but it just makes sense to me if you go by the pc game alone and nothing else.[/QUOTE]


Exactly what I think. My husband has played the P&P game but I never have so I went off what I got from the PC game. And somehow I really doubt they where following the P&P game rules. How many PC or Console games that where based of a P&P or card game do you know follow the rules of the game they copied? But yes I think its ether Jack or the cabbie from the end that sent the emails. As for who I think the cabbie from the end is I think it could be Caine or an ancient but ya I am leaning more towards him being Caine.

[The Balance]

[QUOTE=Jandau]My money is on Caine. Beckett doesn't actually show much interest in the main character up untill the end of the game and Jack isn't the type to be sending mysterious chess e-mails. That only leaves Caine. The only problem with this theory is simmilar to the problem plaguing the identity of the taxi driver: Why would the eldest vampire with several millenia under his belt be a taxi driver? Likewise, why would he bother sending cryptic e-mails to a sireless fledgeling? But then again, why wouldn't he? Who knows what goes on in the mind of a vampire that old....[/QUOTE]

I agree with Jandau! Who else but Caine himself could have had the acknowledge of what was going on? Jack, of course, it was him who planted the bomb ... but i don't think that an ignorant bum like him could even understand an allegory of chess!
Neithr Strauss could have sent those emails as his was only a foreboding!

[MalaksBane]

The Cabbie is certainly old, older then the Camarilla when I understand the conversation you (can) have with him near the end.

Game mechanics frequently change when converting from P&P to computer, one reason for this could be that P&P is usually turn-based while computer games may be real-time (as is the case here), pc-implementations usually feature a lot more enemies and lacks a DM who can improvise and adapt the game to the player-characters to keep it playable and balanced.

But different game-mechanics doesn't neccesarily mean a different background-story and world and even though the need for commercial success of a title sometimes leads to a little bending of the 'historical facts' of a gameworld, there seems to be no real reason to do so in this game.
On the other hand, it appears that WW has ended the VtM story in a Gehenna, and the appearance of Caine in LA might fit just into that.

Perhaps the makers just did things this way to allow you to fill in that part of the story yourself, in the way you like most.

And it just struck me that this whole Caine discussion is similar to the in-world debate about the existance and reality of Gehenna and the Antedeluvian exist and as amongst Kindred, there are those who believe and those who don't. Cute.

A final thought, don't be mislead by his appearance, Jack is an old and very clever pirate, not an ignorant bum, and I could just imagine him using chess metaphores. Besides, they don't make a lot of sense, the gambit thingy is to far into the game.

[Shamish]

Smiling Jack was described in some of the VtM supplementary materials as often being seen with a Malkavian whose madness made him think himself Caine. This is probably the same character.

As for the Auspex, the game's version has been greatly simplified. All Vampires appear to have a sort of purplish aura unless they're activly attacking, at which time they turn red. Since almost all vampires hang out in the various Elysium (unless of course they're trying to kill you ) this is an easy thing to miss.

I agree with some of others in thinking the email was sent by Jack. He's the guy who orchestrated everything else, why should't he have been behind that too? And he does seem to like the PC.

[pennypincher]

[QUOTE=Shamish]Smiling Jack was described in some of the VtM supplementary materials as often being seen with a Malkavian whose madness made him think himself Caine. This is probably the same character.
[/QUOTE]


ARUGH! That never even popped into my head!! I was too busy being outraged by the suggestion!!

[Celacena]

Jack is prime contender - he is the one who pulls the strings throughout - who manipulates laC's greed for power into bringing a Trojan Horse into his haven. laC doesn't go out, so he can only be dealt with from within - a fight is out of the question with his Sheriff, so Jack contrives to make LaC desperate for his box. nothing less than the chance of supreme power could make LaC ignore the security issues of opening something that hasn't been checked beforehand.

Jack knows what is in the box. nobody else can be sure. even Gary cannot know for sure what is in the box. I think Beckett eventually knows that something is wrong and tells the PC not to open the box. Beckett is very independent and is not a fan of the prince - Jack may even have had his help, due to the complex nature of the plot - a box needed to be obtained, the Professor had to be tipped off and after the early part of the quest, the box needed to be re-sealed - Beckett would have been top contender for those activities rather than Jack.

As Jack is the only one who knows for sure about the box, if Beckett didn't re-seal the box - and was the player of the game overall, he should be the one who sent the email.

[MalaksBane]

Beckett involved?
It's possible, but why would he wait with warning you against opening the box for so long? And why in such a chaotic way?

I thought he just didn't have enough information until the (two?) later meetings with LaCroix, at which he was present.

But it's an interesting idea to involve Becket, or even make him the player, and think of him as the one who sends the emails. He does show up in town at a convenient time.

[yrthwyndandfyre]

[QUOTE=showoffjp]That would explain alot, though technically, Caine, who probably originated from the European area, spending alot of time there, might have learned to drive in that area, where as most of us know, the drive on the left side of the road instad of the right. That would explain why he's always on the wrong side of the road, and why he has that funny accent. Or mabey the developers just put it in for kicks(or they were drunk...). Who knows? Judging from all these bugs and crashes in the game, it might be the later.[/QUOTE]
Actually, they drive on the left in England and Australia and, I suppose, technically India (although they apparrently don't actually have driving 'rules' there). A friend of mine from Australia says that it takes about 20 minutes to get used to driving in North America, although driving while tipsy is a bad mistake because he tends to default to his driving habits - left side of the road.

[yrthwyndandfyre]

[QUOTE=pennypincher]Well, I wasn't alluding to the fact that Caine COULDN'T send emails, more to the fact that acient vampires are known for their hatred of change and new things.. Fear of them in fact. Ghouls have been slaughtered en-masse for suggesting to elder vampires that maybe a phone call would be faster then inking a parchment with a feather pen.
Elders fear change, because it means all the things they knew, could control, could understand, loved and made them who they were in life are dying and leaving them behind. As a rule, all but a few generaly just create ghouls to handle anything that needs "modern magic"... S'what I meant... Nor did I want to suggest that anyone who uses email is a nerd.. Ahem.. Sorry to anybody who (like me) loves the ease of email, and sorry to any touchy nerds who may consider me lumping them all together like that an injustice. He he.[/QUOTE]
Yes. I'm inclined to agree. I keep hearing Damsel's little speech, "Capes, Cammy. Vampires so old that they still think Candle-light is a keen invention."

[yrthwyndandfyre]

[QUOTE=Jandau]Makes sense, except for one detail: She's homeless and lives on a beach. So unless she's got a laptop with a wireless net connection she's not much of an option....

I'd sooner go with Gary.[/QUOTE]
There is the internet cafe. Bum two bucks (not hard for a woman who looks like that) and she's off.
Two reasons why I don't like the Gypsy for the E-Mails. A) Gypsies generally are a little put off by high tech (I've known a few in my time) and B) The chess references suggest a fairly sophisticated intellect, and chess players always plan - that's the very nature of the game. Since chess is a truly ancient game, and some versions of it started in the middle-east, I like Caine, or maybe Mitnick, but the oblique references kind of disqualify him. Full-on geeks tend to be good at chess, but they also tend to be highly literal.
Gary I frankly doubt, because he's into control, and control freaks like to contain information, not release it. Contained information is control. Uncontained information is just information.
Taking all of the available candidates into account, I like Caine more than the rest, regardless of whether or not he is working with Jack, which I doubt.

[Celacena]

Not Caine

firstly, Caine doesn't have a laptop in his cab to send email...
...and more seriously, there is no reason why Caine would be bothered enough to drop clues and especially to say don't open it. you don't meet him until after you have completed the first segment, whereas Jack was around from the very beginning - he was at the Theatre after the PC is shown yet he is alone there, not with Nines - bearing in mind that the plot against laC must have began months earlier - with the prof being directed to the sarcophagus - it is odd that anybody left it to chance that a fledgeling would appear ready to be manipulated at the right time. perhaps the Ming route was the original plot rather than a diversion - what did she know? what did Adrian know?

a few mysteries wrapped up in this one.