Heritage and Ancestry.

[Aegis]

I'm a nice four-way split. Irish and Mohawk being my two prominant ones, followed by Scottish and Pennsylvania Dotch (German - Don't know how to make the umlaut... ). I also take great pride in those backgrounds. Not for national or patriotic reasons, but because I think one should be proud of their roots. Someone should not be ashamed of where they came from, regardless of what ancestors and countrymen did in the past. I love my Irish roots because they are Irish. Nothing more, nothing less. The same is true about my Mohawk.

[C Elegans]

[QUOTE=fable]CE, is science at the point yet where any genes that might contribute to the formation of a bipolar condition have been recognized?[/QUOTE]

No. Just as with schizophrenia and autism, the "gene for bipolar disorder" have been found a dozen time over the last century, but every time it's a different gene and replications have failed. The "haplotype" (ie genetic network instead of single genes) approach we use today is more complex and takes longer time to explore, but is also quite slow. The best study I have seem so far regarding bipolar, was a British study last year where some locations for possible involved genes, were discovered by using the haplotype-approch on a large sample.

[Zelgadis]

If anyone is interested, I'm German, Anglo-Saxon, Hebrew, Welsh, Dutch, and Cherokee. I'm not sure about the portions, but German, Anglo-Saxon and Hebrew are the big ones.

[Chanak]

@fable: I spent some time discussing family history with a psychiatrist, who wasn't at all surprised to learn that my oldest sister is bipolar. That's two out of four siblings in the same family - myself, and the eldest. He was interested in family history primarily because he said there was a tendency for the same psychotropic medication to benefit siblings. My oldest sister was diagnosed 7 years ago, and has been taking Serzone for 5 of those years. It's worked well for her, but the doctor was concerned about Serzone's chief side effect - possible liver damage. Therefore, he suggested that I try one of the newer pyschotropics on the market - Lexapro, an SSRI drug - first, before we would consider Serzone. Thus far, it has done wonders for me, though lately I notice I am slowly returning to my usual, dark and broody self. An increase in dosage might be in order.

Apparently, my family's situation is not at all uncommon. There's usually a family history of bipolar disorder involved, as I have discovered for myself.

[fable]

Interesting. I have to wonder whether in the future they won't be able to determine gene indicators towards a variety of conditions--such as my own family's history of allergies and COLD (hospital acronym I picked up from my wife, the former RN: chronic obstructive lung disease). This could be very helpful in pinpointing probable difficulties before they arise, employing various regimens to offset either illness or mitigate its severity.

[RandomThug]

I really dont have time to go into it but well I guess I want to make a discussion point.. and if it sounds absurd, let me know.

I have pride in my country, I have pride in my name.

I guess I look at it like this... If I worked for a great company.. say Im the lead in sales... I do all I can and the best I can to sell the great product other people in my company make. I am proud of my work because I do such a good job, BUT because it is part of a whole... I alone am not the company others are.... I am proud of the company.

Like with my name... sure just being a (enter last name) isn't much... but representing it like those who have before... carrying on tradition...

I have a strong work ethic in my family, a strong nose to the grindstone type of attitude. Less religion, less politics more work. If I were to have a family and instill the values of my father to them... I mean thats continuation of a "tradition" or whatnot that is linked to my last name, my family. I am proud to do so... is that absurd? And the same with my country... I am proud when I see others attempting to make it better as I do as well...

To feel pride because I guess for a lack of a better term... "My X is better than your Y because it is X" is ridiculous...

I feel pride in my name because what it represents... because I continue to hold up that representation... I think its absurd to not be proud of who you are... where your from... if we are all going to be these big isolationist personality type people where nothing matters but today and who I am now... why have family? Why have the same name... why not just change yor name to something like Max Power....

I guess I just dont get it.


Oh yeah btw I am Brit/Sicilian... in other words... lots of chest hair.

[jopperm2]

@fable, I have actually thought about this quite a bit. While such things would certainly improve health care and save lives, it would have other serious negatives. Insurance companies would find a lot of people uninsurable if they discovered genetic propensities for certain problems. Even employers would be hesitant to hire people who are likely to get ill.. Bad news.

[fable]

[QUOTE=jopperm2]@fable, I have actually thought about this quite a bit. While such things would certainly improve health care and save lives, it would have other serious negatives. Insurance companies would find a lot of people uninsurable if they discovered genetic propensities for certain problems. Even employers would be hesitant to hire people who are likely to get ill.. Bad news. [/QUOTE]

I doubt insurance companies will simply ignore people with genetic illnesses--after all, they could do so right now: but many jobs in the US forcibly mandate coverage (thanks to one of the good decisions made by Clinton). In that case, it's up to the insurance company to create a viable plan. An individual may be insured, for example, if they remain on a series of prescribed meds. Or the coverage may simply be provided because the average of the entire customer database easily outweighs the problems of a few specific conditions (the justification used by insurance companies for years). They may insure all but specific advanced conditions. There are ways to work around all this.

As for employers not hiring people with genetic dispositions for certain illnesses: how would they find out? And if requests for that information began appearing on employment forms, how many hours do you think it would take before employees started lobbying their congresspeople, and advocacy groups started pushing the matter through the court system?

[C Elegans]

@Fable: Predictive genotyping will be possible for a variety of conditions in the future. It is already now possible for several diseases such as Huntington's disease, some severe bleeding disorders and a few others. The reason why we can do this for some particular diseases, is because these diseases are caused by identified single autosomal genes. It is highly unusual that only one gene cause a disease. That's why we are more and more changing over to working with haplotypes, ie networks of different genes that interact and contribute to a specific result.

@Jopperm: I am totally for predictive genotyping, but insurance companies and employeers should not have access to this information. If we had a global Biobank Law, such as we have in Sweden, this would be no problem. In the US, companies can take patents on genetic sequences, you can buy and sell genetic information like any other material object. In Sweden, firstly you can't take a patent on something that occurs naturally and thus you cannot take patent on genetic sequences and second, all tissue samples from a person is part of that persons medical record, which cannot be traded with. Genetic information can only be reveled if the individual gives informed written consent. The only exception for this is the police, who has the right to take DNA from people during certain circumstances. They do not however have the right to check a DNA sample found at a crime scene with the large reseach DNA banks kept at university hospitals. (The possibility to increase the rights of the police in this regard, is currently under discussion in Sweden.)

However, when genetic information is discussed, we must always ask: who will have the information, and for what use? Predictive genotyping is used today in order to prevent adult carriers to spread their disease to their future children, and to diagnose embryos who may be carriers of very severe disease, so that the parents can choose abortion.

[jopperm2]

I doubt there will be a serious problem, but I thought it would be worth metionioning that in the wrong hands it could be misused. I could see life insurance companies being allowed to use it though. They use family medical history already and it's a similar thing.

[Chanak]

The Civil Rights Act covers discrimination against persons with disabilities: it's a protected group. I am all for allowing persons with disabilities, be it genetic or otherwise, to live as "normal" a life as possible. That's the goal of such laws in the first place. I didn't realize this until very recently, but according to the law, I suffer from a disability. If an employer were to try to get rid of me based upon that, I would have a good case in court.

@CE: Hindsight is 20/20. Although I've been married a few times, and otherwise had plenty of opportunities, I've never had any children. I'm grateful for it. I think I've mentioned before that my wife is bipolar (that was our common connection, we met in a support group), and she has had two children of her own. Out of those two, the eldest, her daughter, was diagnosed bipolar not very long ago. Her disorder is quite severe, requiring her to take an antipsychotic (seroquel) in her regimen. She's an interesting study: brilliant in academics, cruising easily through school, a member of the talented and gifted classes...but otherwise a complete and total mess. School was a similar experience for me, as it was also for my wife. Unfortunately, school wasn't stimulating enough for me, and so I drifted and didn't stay with it. My wife's daughter is in danger of doing that as well...but fortunately for her, she has latched on to a goal: she wants to complete college so she can be a psychologist. This further reinforces my belief that most psychologists have a few screws loose.

EDIT - I was discussing this with my wife just now. Her own ancestry is similar to mine...she has a sibling who is bipolar...her father is unipolar depressed...her paternal aunt was bipolar...ugh.

[C Elegans]

@Chanak: Sounds like both you and your wife have a variant with high genetic penetrance, ie the inheritance in your families is very strong. It is not as strong in all people with bipolar - there are even quite common (30-35%) with identical twins where one sibling has it but not the other. This of course makes it much more difficult to understand the mechanisms behind bipolar disorder. Genes are only part of the answer, the other parts may be prenatal factors, obsteric factors, transcription from gene to gene expression (it's a long and complicated way from gene to the actual expression of the gene in the body), environmental factors, social factors... just about anything.

Since your wife's daughter is on Seroquel, I assume she has mainly manic episodes, perpaps with psychotic features? May I ask if she ever tried Lithium or Valproat?

Good she wants to become a psychologist! You have read Kay Jamison's book, haven't you? She's a preclinical psychologist, you know

[Chanak]

[QUOTE=C Elegans]@Chanak: Sounds like both you and your wife have a variant with high genetic penetrance, ie the inheritance in your families is very strong. It is not as strong in all people with bipolar - there are even quite common (30-35%) with identical twins where one sibling has it but not the other. This of course makes it much more difficult to understand the mechanisms behind bipolar disorder. Genes are only part of the answer, the other parts may be prenatal factors, obsteric factors, transcription from gene to gene expression (it's a long and complicated way from gene to the actual expression of the gene in the body), environmental factors, social factors... just about anything.

Since your wife's daughter is on Seroquel, I assume she has mainly manic episodes, perpaps with psychotic features? May I ask if she ever tried Lithium or Valproat?

Good she wants to become a psychologist! You have read Kay Jamison's book, haven't you? She's a preclinical psychologist, you know [/QUOTE]

It's quite a fascinating subject, to be sure. After the birth of her son, my wife had her fallopian tubes sealed off via surgical procedure. We will not have this procedure reversed...for we agree that armed with the knowledge we both have gathered in the past few years, we do not wish to have any children. It's too risky.

Yes, CE, that is an accurate assessment of my wife's daughter. Her manics are high and destructive; she also engaged in self-injury (it has been some time since she last injured herself...and the physical evidence supports the fact that she hasn't been engaging in it. Scars she would ritualistically re-open are fading away in prominence now...in particular, a certain four-letter word she carved into her calf is barely visible now. ). She was started on Lithium, but has since been taking Depakote. She also takes Adarol (sp?).

Being around her is not unlike walking into a raging tornado...it can be an unsettling experience. She can be masterfully manipulative, and unfortunately has the sort of magnetic personality and intelligence to get away with it...you wouldn't believe how many people she "wraps around her finger"...*cough* To my own merit, I am aware of her efforts, and what she does to get away with things. I simply handle her with kid gloves, because any extreme attempts to deal with her is met with an equally extreme response on her part. She's an interesting study.

Oh yes, I have read Dr. Jamison's book. It's my wife's favorite book about bipolar disorder. She circulated this book around her family, and the result was the healing of an estrangement between her and her parents that had lasted for many, many years.

[Yeltsu]

@ Thug

I agree completly, you managed to say what I tried (but failed) to say in my last post.