I like guardian better. Guardian class has a sh#t load of strength and attacks. On Taris/ kotor 1. My male guardian ripped the bad azz sith with robes apart.-Sith Base final boss battle.
Advice
Guardian Jedi, Zaldar and Canderous are a force to be reckon with= Dream Team
:speech:
strong Guardian Jedi+ stong Bastila + strong Zaldar= The dream team
If your team is low on health. Use Revan, Bastila, Jouli, Cat Lady= use them
Possible pro team
Lv 15 Revan
Lv 15 Bastila
Lv 15 Zaldar
Lv 15 Canderous
Lv 14 Carth
= Equip them with strong abilitys
Favorite Start off Class
From a powerplay point of view, I'm inclined for Scout. You should note I play untill lvl 4 and stop leveling until I become a Jedi.
Combat is the name of the game in KotOR and Scoundrels are pretty fragile the first few levels and don't get a lot of feats.
Scouts get better vitality, they get 3 feats over the first 4 levels, which include two bonus feats for Implants Lvl 1 & 2. This line of feats is as good as mandatory.
Their bonus feats include Flurry, which offers the best "attack" featchain in the game, for me. Power Attack in inferior, while Critical Strike leaves you defenseless for a few levels and in fact only gives a chance for an extra attack (An Attack at double damage, or two attacks, that's the same
), as opposed to Flurry, which simply gives it.
Furthermore, Scouts are the only ones with Repair as a class skill, which can come in handy later.
Soldiers just offer a few points more of vitality, very few skill points, and one extra feat, which is meaningless, since they don't have Flurry nor the Implants.
Combat is the name of the game in KotOR and Scoundrels are pretty fragile the first few levels and don't get a lot of feats.
Scouts get better vitality, they get 3 feats over the first 4 levels, which include two bonus feats for Implants Lvl 1 & 2. This line of feats is as good as mandatory.
Their bonus feats include Flurry, which offers the best "attack" featchain in the game, for me. Power Attack in inferior, while Critical Strike leaves you defenseless for a few levels and in fact only gives a chance for an extra attack (An Attack at double damage, or two attacks, that's the same
), as opposed to Flurry, which simply gives it.Furthermore, Scouts are the only ones with Repair as a class skill, which can come in handy later.
Soldiers just offer a few points more of vitality, very few skill points, and one extra feat, which is meaningless, since they don't have Flurry nor the Implants.
I thought I would clear this up, as the common misconception is that Flurry is the best attack feature and the other two kind of suck.Their bonus feats include Flurry, which offers the best "attack" featchain in the game, for me. Power Attack in inferior, while Critical Strike leaves you defenseless for a few levels and in fact only gives a chance for an extra attack (An Attack at double damage, or two attacks, that's the same), as opposed to Flurry, which simply gives it.
Flurry only adds 1 swing to your attack. If you have 2 blades and use force Master speed, you will swing at your enemy 4 times when you attack. If you use Flurry also, you will swing 5 times. If you do really high damage, that extra swing from Flurry might deal 25 damage. With Sneak Attack III, it might deal 35 damage.
Power Attack adds 10 damage to each swing. If you swing 4 times, that is plus 40 damage everytime you attack. Unlike Flurry, the bonus damage from Power Attack is not effected by how much damage your lightsaber does.
Master Critical Strike gives a 40% chance to deal double damage everytime you swing. Critical Strike has the potential to deal the most damage, but just like Flurry, it is dependant on how much damage your lightsaber does. Two single blades have a higher chance to crit than double-blades.
You may reconsider if Flurry makes a class better for playing. Flurry requires that your lightsaber does 40 damage in order to just be on par with Power Attack.
Always remember you're unique ... just like everyone else.
Caden wrote:I thought I would clear this up, as the common misconception is that Flurry is the best attack feature and the other two kind of suck.
Flurry only adds 1 swing to your attack. If you have 2 blades and use force Master speed, you will swing at your enemy 4 times when you attack. If you use Flurry also, you will swing 5 times. If you do really high damage, that extra swing from Flurry might deal 25 damage. With Sneak Attack III, it might deal 35 damage.
Power Attack adds 10 damage to each swing. If you swing 4 times, that is plus 40 damage everytime you attack. Unlike Flurry, the bonus damage from Power Attack is not effected by how much damage your lightsaber does.
Master Critical Strike gives a 40% chance to deal double damage everytime you swing. Critical Strike has the potential to deal the most damage, but just like Flurry, it is dependant on how much damage your lightsaber does. Two single blades have a higher chance to crit than double-blades.
You may reconsider if Flurry makes a class better for playing. Flurry requires that your lightsaber does 40 damage in order to just be on par with Power Attack.
Like doing 40 damage is that hard. Master Flurry only takes a -1 penalty, while PA takes a -3 penalty. A -2 difference isn't much, but it could add up.
Critical Strike, like I said before, relies too much on luck and takes quite a toll on your defense. It could be more worth it if there are crystals that increase the critical multiplier of your lightsabre, but I think those only exist in KotORII. In regular d20, with iterative attacks, something like Critical Strike would be great.
As an added bonus, I for one think that the flurry-animation is by far the coolest.
It's harder than the 25 damage you might get from Flurry when you attack.GawainBS wrote:Like doing 40 damage is that hard.
Not really. When you have a really high strength, a -2 chance to hit is negligible. You don't even notice it. If you have low strength, the -2 might be noticed. However, also on a low strength character, the bonus swing Flurry gives will deal even less than +25 bonus damage. Meaning, even on a low strength character, the +40 damage Power Attack does is worth a -2 chance to hit.GawainBS wrote:A -2 difference isn't much, but it could add up.
Luck? You have a 40% chance to crit with it. Those are extremely good odds. Luck is not required. It's not a 40% chance that you will do one extra swing the way Flurry only adds one extra swing. I know that's how you thought it worked. It really is a 40% chance that each of your 4 swings does double damage. Statistically, at least 1 of your 4 swings should crit everytime you use Critical Strike. If at least 1 crits, then you are already dealing the same damage that the extra swing from Flurry gives. Everytime you use Critical Stike, you should do bare minimum the same damage that using Flurry does. Maximum damage is insane in comparison. The enemy is also stunned, allowing you to deal even more damage with Sneak Attack. You will kill enemies and especially bosses a lot quicker with Critical Strike than the other 2 feature attacks.GawainBS wrote:Critical Strike, like I said before, relies too much on luck
Not really. Critical Strike adds a 6 second stun. That's a pretty long duration. You can keep more than one enemy stunned solely by using Critical Strike. They can't attack you when they are stunned so the toll on your defense shouldn't even go noticed. If you have more than 2-3 enemies, then you always have allies or force powers to distract them. As long as you are creative, you shouldn't even notice the toll on your defense. Not to mention, your enemies die quicker so you take less hits that way as well.GawainBS wrote:and takes quite a toll on your defense.
I believe the Nextor crystal adds a 5% chance to crit, but the math proves that adding a crystal with raw damage gives better results.GawainBS wrote:It could be more worth it if there are crystals that increase the critical multiplier of your lightsabre
40% chance for each of your 4 swings to crit are extremely good odds. Even if only 2 of your 4 swings crit, you are doing a lot more damage than you would with the 1 bonus swing you get from Flurry.GawainBS wrote:In regular d20, with iterative attacks, something like Critical Strike would be great.
I like variation and use all 3 for different Jedi builds. Though, I use Power Attack or Critical Strike if I plan to deal damage with my lightsaber.GawainBS wrote:As an added bonus, I for one think that the flurry-animation is by far the coolest.
Always remember you're unique ... just like everyone else.
I do know pretty well how Critical Strike works. I have to admit that I did forget to take in to account the effects of Master Speed. I was talking about unbuffed characters. Still, something that depends on luck, is something I try to avoid. The main principle to good builds in d20 is to minimize the impact of dice rolls, i.e. luck. I have a friend who doesn't even roll below 12 on a d20, while I'm lucky if I roll above 9, so that's reason enough for me to avoid Critical Strike. Besides, the Stun Effect gives a save, which means it isn't guaranteed to stun. Once again, with my luck, enemies with a +1 Fort save save against a DC 30 by rolling 20, while I, with my +15, fail on a DC 12 by rolling a 1. (Unless KotOR did away with the "1 always fails, 20 always succeeds" rule, which could be.)
Of course, the more attacks you get, the more it pays of, that's true.
Doing 40 damage in each swing isn't so hard to compensate for Power Attack. It would require endgame gear, though. I think that KotOR's PA doesn't increase the critical multiplier, otherwise, it might work well with some crystals.
Finally, "Critical Multiplier" is the number of times your base damage is multiplied, not the threat range. The Nextor crystal doubles the threat range, which is a 10% increase in critical chance, not a 5%. (Not really 10%, the real % depends on the AC of the target, but that would be nitpicking.)
So, Flurry remains standing as the most reliable source of extra damage. Not the biggest. I, personally, prefer reliability above size.
Even then, the other main advantages of the Scout easily mark it out as the best starting class, unless you take a lot of pre-Jedi levels. Maybe that the Soldier would pull ahead.
Of course, the more attacks you get, the more it pays of, that's true.
Doing 40 damage in each swing isn't so hard to compensate for Power Attack. It would require endgame gear, though. I think that KotOR's PA doesn't increase the critical multiplier, otherwise, it might work well with some crystals.
Finally, "Critical Multiplier" is the number of times your base damage is multiplied, not the threat range. The Nextor crystal doubles the threat range, which is a 10% increase in critical chance, not a 5%. (Not really 10%, the real % depends on the AC of the target, but that would be nitpicking.)
So, Flurry remains standing as the most reliable source of extra damage. Not the biggest. I, personally, prefer reliability above size.
Even then, the other main advantages of the Scout easily mark it out as the best starting class, unless you take a lot of pre-Jedi levels. Maybe that the Soldier would pull ahead.
The thing is, I'm pretty sure that without Sneak Attack, all you can hope for with endgame gear is to do 25 damage. Maybe 30 tops. Still, not 40. You would need Sneak Attack and to focus on strength gear in order for Flurry to be on par with Power Attack. Power Attack certainly doesn't depend on luck anymore than Flurry. Power Attack adds just raw damage.
Even without Master Speed, in early game, Power Attack is still the more reliable choice. Let's say at the start of the game you have two weapons equipped that deal 7 damage each. Flurry level 1 will add one extra swing for a total of 21 damage. Power Attack level 1 will add 5 damage to each of your two swings for a total of 24 damage. It doesn't stop there, because the penalties make it even worse. Flurry lvl 1 gives -4 to chance to hit and a -4 to defense, while Power Attack lvl 1 gives only a -3 chance to hit. You could say that Flurry can do more than 21 damage if you have Sneak Attack, but in early game you don't really have a means of stunning the enemy so Sneak Attack can't be used as a factor in early game. So early game, I would say Power Attack is slightly superior. As the game progresses, Flurry becomes less inferior, but then you eventually get Master Speed and that makes it so Power Attack remains superior. I just don't think the extra swing from Flurry will be able to do 40 damage without Sneak Attack.
You brought up some good points with Critical Strike. I don't exactly believe in luck, but I do understand that dice rolls aren't exactly random. I believe they are dependant on how the person throws the die. You don't actually have a 1 in 20 chance of landing a 19 with a 20 sided die. Kotor uses a computer, so I can trust that the numbers are actually randomized. Personally, I've never killed bosses faster than when I've used Critical Strike. The DC for the stun is 30 if the attacking character has a high strength. So it would be really difficult for most characters and even bosses to be able to resist it. I honestly don't know if Kotor did away with the "1 always fails, 20 always succeeds" rule.
Even without Master Speed, in early game, Power Attack is still the more reliable choice. Let's say at the start of the game you have two weapons equipped that deal 7 damage each. Flurry level 1 will add one extra swing for a total of 21 damage. Power Attack level 1 will add 5 damage to each of your two swings for a total of 24 damage. It doesn't stop there, because the penalties make it even worse. Flurry lvl 1 gives -4 to chance to hit and a -4 to defense, while Power Attack lvl 1 gives only a -3 chance to hit. You could say that Flurry can do more than 21 damage if you have Sneak Attack, but in early game you don't really have a means of stunning the enemy so Sneak Attack can't be used as a factor in early game. So early game, I would say Power Attack is slightly superior. As the game progresses, Flurry becomes less inferior, but then you eventually get Master Speed and that makes it so Power Attack remains superior. I just don't think the extra swing from Flurry will be able to do 40 damage without Sneak Attack.
You brought up some good points with Critical Strike. I don't exactly believe in luck, but I do understand that dice rolls aren't exactly random. I believe they are dependant on how the person throws the die. You don't actually have a 1 in 20 chance of landing a 19 with a 20 sided die. Kotor uses a computer, so I can trust that the numbers are actually randomized. Personally, I've never killed bosses faster than when I've used Critical Strike. The DC for the stun is 30 if the attacking character has a high strength. So it would be really difficult for most characters and even bosses to be able to resist it. I honestly don't know if Kotor did away with the "1 always fails, 20 always succeeds" rule.
Always remember you're unique ... just like everyone else.
Just as an exercise, I'll try to see if you can get to 40 damage.
2d10 Base for a double lightsabre.
1d6 from a crystal. (Forgot the name.)
1d8 from the Luminari (?) Crystal found on Korriban. (I believe 1d8 vs Dark Side, but what isn't Dark Side in this game.;-))
+3 from that same Crystal.
+2 Weapon Specialization. (If you're a Guardian.)
+15 from 30 STR. (IIRC, a double lightsabre adds 1.5x STR to its mainweapon, which is the one used for Flurry.)
= 24-54 damage. That's 39 damage average. You could also use those two super end-game crystal from Yavin, but I forgot the stats about them.
Anyway, if PA hadn't such a horrible animation, I would check it out next time.
2d10 Base for a double lightsabre.
1d6 from a crystal. (Forgot the name.)
1d8 from the Luminari (?) Crystal found on Korriban. (I believe 1d8 vs Dark Side, but what isn't Dark Side in this game.;-))
+3 from that same Crystal.
+2 Weapon Specialization. (If you're a Guardian.)
+15 from 30 STR. (IIRC, a double lightsabre adds 1.5x STR to its mainweapon, which is the one used for Flurry.)
= 24-54 damage. That's 39 damage average. You could also use those two super end-game crystal from Yavin, but I forgot the stats about them.
Anyway, if PA hadn't such a horrible animation, I would check it out next time.
I've never heard of this, surprisingly. If it's true then it is 39 damage. If it isn't true, then 30 strength only adds 10 modifiers to damage. Which means your roll is 19-49. Which is 34 average damage. (Edit: Upon further testing, the damage of a weapon remains the same, no matter which hand you hold it in. Only the chance that it will land a blow might vary.)IIRC, a double lightsabre adds 1.5x STR to its mainweapon, which is the one used for Flurry
I play the Xbox version so I never considered the two crystals on the Yavin Space Station. Those crystals are on the PC version only. However, upon further inspection of the Yavin crystals, I learned that the Heart of the Guardian will actually drop your damage by 1 and the Mantle of the force will raise your damage by 2. This is when combined with the Solari and Sigil crystals.
Of course all your math depends on a lot of things. The Solari crystal only adds 1-8 damage against all darkside characters. Yes, there is a lot that isn't darkside. Anyone who is neutral, a monster, or robot will not be effected by the 1-8 damage. It also requires that you are lightside to even use the crystal. It also requires that you are a guardian for the +2 damage and that you focus on strength and neglect dex and wis. Basically, you have to meet a lot of criteria to even reach the 34 average damage that I've been talking about. Power Attack will certainly be even more useful to anyone who didn't meet all the requirements for your math.
Let's say you are a sentinel fighting a rancor. All of a sudden that 34 becomes 27. The same applies if you are darkside and can't use the Solari crystal all together. Let's say you didn't focus solely on strength, then it drops even further below 27. Whereas Power Attack gives 40 damage no matter what class or crystals you are using, or what your stats are. You've basically argued that 40 damage isn't hard to get, but you've also argued that only 1 type of build can come close to it with Flurry, and that build would be better off using Critical Strike since it is strength based.
So if my math is correct, even with all your stipulates you can only aquire 34 average damage--36 with the Mantle of the Force on the PC version.
Always remember you're unique ... just like everyone else.
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The Eyes of Evi
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Scout is my favorite.
You get more than enough skills, if you stop at level 4,5, or 8 (my recommendations) you have more feats than a Soldier of equal level (actually, the same amount at level 8), and the special Uncanny Dodge ability comes in handy as well. Scouts get the best saving throws, which helps any of the jedi classes out.
I personally think level 4 is the best to stop at. After that, just make sure you use Zaalbaar and Carth as much as possible, because you're a bit fragile at such a low level.
You get more than enough skills, if you stop at level 4,5, or 8 (my recommendations) you have more feats than a Soldier of equal level (actually, the same amount at level 8), and the special Uncanny Dodge ability comes in handy as well. Scouts get the best saving throws, which helps any of the jedi classes out.
I personally think level 4 is the best to stop at. After that, just make sure you use Zaalbaar and Carth as much as possible, because you're a bit fragile at such a low level.
"A life is not important, except in the impact it has on other lives."
-- Jackie Robinson
Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu!
-- Jackie Robinson
Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu!
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Devil Girl
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I think Scout's the best: flurry, implants, uncanny dodge for free is cool. And repair as a class skill. I agree that power attack is better than flurry but flurry is free so why spend feat points for PA? I think there is not much difference and I went through game with flurry and dual lightsabers just fine.
I also save several skill points to spend them on persuade when I become a Jedi Sentinel
I also save several skill points to spend them on persuade when I become a Jedi Sentinel
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Mandalore72
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Personally, I absolutely hate the Scout class. There are numerous factors why, but most prominent among those are these: 1) They get one more feat than a Scoundrel 2) The get flurry as a starting feat *shudder* 3) The whole balanced thing sucks when you go against someone who is specialized.
My favorite class is definitely Scoundrel though I also like Soldier when I want to feel like I'm doing more damage. Of course, I invest early on in Power Attack and Two Weapon Fighting, stopping my Scoundrel level growth at 7. From there I am a pure tank.
That extra 40 damage from power attack with a nice 4-24 damage per sneak attack and around 30 some damage per hit... priceless. All you need is to put Jolee in your party and give your character Master Speed. Of course focusing on strength is also key as without it you do less damage than you otherwise would.
My favorite class is definitely Scoundrel though I also like Soldier when I want to feel like I'm doing more damage. Of course, I invest early on in Power Attack and Two Weapon Fighting, stopping my Scoundrel level growth at 7. From there I am a pure tank.
That extra 40 damage from power attack with a nice 4-24 damage per sneak attack and around 30 some damage per hit... priceless. All you need is to put Jolee in your party and give your character Master Speed. Of course focusing on strength is also key as without it you do less damage than you otherwise would.
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Darth_Ruin
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Mandalore72
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Zapping them from the distance isn't as effective. Force Storm does 1D6 damage per level up to 10D6 which means that you are doing max damage with Shock before you leave Dantooine. In the beginning this is a very good technique since it makes up for sheer physical strength, but not towards the end.Darth_Ruin wrote:Two more points. 1. Stop talking about weapon damage. just zap them from a distance its easier and less complicated. 2. Dont forget that a Scoundrel is also good because of the class defence bonuses you can get.
At the end of the game, everyone is using Force Restistance which makes it nigh impossible to hit them with Force Powers unles you are also using Force Breach all of the time. That takes 1-2 turns for that to work, then you need to cast your lightning. That's 3 turns. With a stout double saber you can kill 3 people (possibly all of them with grenades and sneak attack) where you would have the chance to kill one in that time and only if the rest of your party was cutting into that person like a maniac. And factoring in that he doesn't save.
So, technically, lightsabers are less complex and are much easier to use. And you have no limit (other than the turns of a battle and you VP) for how many attacks you can use. In the long run, melee weapons/lightsabers are easier and less complex.
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perriman smyth
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