dual axe fighter

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:58 pm

[QUOTE=RBitG]*sigh* Honestly, do you people never do the circus tent? Nobody needs Charisma! Set it as low as you can get it, and pick up that 18 CHA ring irght after leaving the dungeon.

[/QUOTE]

Some people havent played the game yet.

Also, the ring of charisma occupies one slot. If you have charisma, you can have Edventar's Gift instead, and freedom is TONS more usefull than high charisma.

Berethor · Post by **Berethor** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:26 pm

[QUOTE=Luis Antonio]Some people havent played the game yet.

Also, the ring of charisma occupies one slot. If you have charisma, you can have Edventar's Gift instead, and freedom is TONS more usefull than high charisma.[/QUOTE]

also some people don't wan't to keep that in their inventory the entire game. I think 9 is enough if you do the tests the good way in hell.

what is edventar's gift?

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:11 pm

Edventar's Gift is, if I'm not mistaken, the ring of freedom. Confers you freedom, simply put.

RBitG · Post by **RBitG** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:10 pm

Spoilerish.

Berethor] also some people don't wan't to keep that in their inventory the entire game. I think 9 is enough if you do the tests the good way in [color= wrote:hell[/color].

It's just one ring, there'r plenty of slots for the others, and if you're playing a mage type class (Reccomended) you won't particularily need freedom anyway.

Edit: Even if you are playing this dual-Axe weilder, Charisma allows you to spend more on other stats, allowing you to speak coherently.

Luis]Also wrote:
Tons more useful? How about being able to set your Charisma to three, and then using those points to get real stats? And as i have stated above, there is plenty of room for one extra (And insanely powerful) ring in your party.

Uhm, spoilers?

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:46 am

You dont need 18 charisma, RBitG, you just dont need to put it to 3. The effects of having 9 charisma are not that bad, and money is completely avaiable everywhere in the game. Now, having 3 charisma is really bad. If you use quarterstaff, there's the ugliness cheese, which will give you 25 charisma, but that's too cheesy. Its like having 25 constitution (grants regeneration aye?).

Cuchulain82 · Post by **Cuchulain82** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:23 am

Honestly, if you're going to set your cha to 3 based on information from a previous game, why not just cheat and set it to 18? Imho, it's cheating either way. Like Vondu said, stats are on a bell curve, so any ability score of 3 is just as incredibly rare as a stat of 18. Someone with a cha of 3 is so unbelievably ugly and uncouth that people are immediately hostile to them; the only comparison I can think of is to a leper. Why would you want to play a character that is that deficient. Some people liked to occasionally try characters in 2nd ed PnP with low scores, but that is uncommon.

[QUOTE=TonyMontana1638]But doesn't it say that if you havean intelligence of below 9 or something you can't speak properly? That's where I got my 'near-illiterate' judgement.[/QUOTE]
That is a NWN thing, and actually I don't think it's a bad idea. The lower limit on ability scores (ie: no score below 8 before racial modifiers) makes sense to me; I think it is a good way to respect the Roleplaying aspect of the RPG.

Amran_X_Kaiser · Post by **Amran_X_Kaiser** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:26 pm

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I think it serves them right being illiterate - when the try out some of the mods where restriction are given based on intelligence, charisma and wisdom of their original stats not items they will only get limited access to the games resources - their only setting themselves to fail - why not just even out the stats and get that extra-ring slot free ? Who knows - any reasonable fighter character knows not to get below 10 in char, wis or int - anything less is just asking for trouble - mind flayer intelligence draining, charisma bonuses and wisdom save vs spells are all into effect rather than just getting item slots filled with stats upgrades - will you have every stat improving item for the entire game always without ever switching them for something better ? Or maybe you can spread your stats and have all those slots free for better items - in comparison - a ring of human influence won't do much to help you against a lich but that ring of spell turning might.

RBitG · Post by **RBitG** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:04 am

[QUOTE=Amran_X_Kaiser]A ring of human influence won't do much to help you against a lich but that ring of spell turning might.[/QUOTE]

Ah, that is where you are incorrect. In fact; a ring of human influence can save you seven-odd attribute points that can be put in to other things, for example, having a CHA of 13, and a DEX of 15, is no where near as good as having a CHA of 5, and a DEX of 18, and then quite a bit more in CON. This is obviously going to help you quite a lot when facing area affect spells, something that a ring of spell truning won't do. However, in case you havn't noticed, you can use both at the same time.

Amran_X_Kaiser · Post by **Amran_X_Kaiser** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:23 am

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I haven't noticed but thanks for bringing up a valid point - whilst you have a ring of human influence and ring of spell turning I'll be having a ring of ram and ring of spell turning that can actually hurt that lich - have you ever tried re-rolling your attribute stats ? 17 18 18 12 12 12 is a basic roll that I have always gotten for even the most basic of fighters.

Considering rangers can have immensly good stats as other classes can - 18 on str, dex and con and 14 on int, wis, cha they don't need stat upgrades.

But I'm sure that ring of human influence will greatly aid you in TOB against Amylessan !

If only there were monsters that drained wisdom or charisma from base stats - or maybe to put their theory to the test - go through Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale with a 3 charisma.

RBitG · Post by **RBitG** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:40 am

[QUOTE=Amran_X_Kaiser]17 18 18 12 12 12 is a basic roll that I have always gotten for even the most basic of fighters.
[/QUOTE]

How long did you spend re-rolling to get that? three days?

Anyway, 18 18 18 15 15 5(18) Is a much better set of stats.

Amran_X_Kaiser · Post by **Amran_X_Kaiser** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:12 am

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Do you plan to keep that ring on permanently or have it through every aspect of the game whilst another ring of invisibility may have helped save your life in a battle ?

Not really - try playing through either Icewind Dale or BG1, BG2 with charisma of 5 on your base stat with mental stat improving items better yet try NWN where mental stats make a difference - I'm sure the ladies will love talking to you lol.

Ranger stats do have a greater minimum stat roll so that probably why they can get close to 92 and have a charisma of 15 stat roll rather than 89 and have a charisma of 5.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:28 am

If you're going to "meta-game", then your Fighter's Intelligence doesn't need to be higher than 3, either. I seem to be the only one who says that Fighters need Intelligence 9 so they can use Wands and read scrolls; that's probably because most players never give their Fighters a wand or a scroll, which just goes to show how useless Intelligence is for Fighter. If your Fighter doesn't use wands or scrolls, he doesn't need Intelligence 9. But on those rare occasions when he needs Intelligence 9, we know he can use a Potion of Genius and a Potion of Mind Focusing, and then he can back to not using wands and scrolls for the rest of the game. That's "meta-gaming".

Aside from roleplaying issues, the main reason why people say a Fighter needs high Intelligence is so he won't be killed by Mind Flayers. But let's put this in perspective: how many times do you have to fight Mind Flayers? Aren't there fewer than fifty Mind Flayers in the entire game? Unless I'm forgetting something, there are two small groups and one large group in the Underdark, one medium-size group in Athkatla, one in Spellhold, a large group in Watcher's Keep, and maybe a couple of others somewhere else. Do you really want to put a lot of points into an otherwise "useless" stat when there are other ways to avoid Intelligence drain? Chaotic Commands, Potions of Genius, Brine Potions, and Psion's Blade offer a lot of protection against Mind Flayers. But you don't even need to send in your Fighters to kill them if you have one of the following alternatives: Project Image and Horrid Wilting (Improved Alacrity, Time Stop, and Lower Resistance guarantee success); Greater Deathblow and Fireseeds; hasted Skeleton Warriors; backstabbing Thieves with Potions of Invisibility or a Fighter/Thief with the Helm of Vhailor; summoned monsters and ranged weapons; or a tag-team strategy that prevents any one party member from taking all of the hits. Mind Flayers are certainly dangerous, but personally, I don't let Mind Flayers scare me into putting more points into Intelligence. It just isn't a big deal. Knowing that you don't need Intelligence higher than 3 to beat any kind of monster in the game is "meta-gaming".

As for Wisdom, I don't know of any good reason why a Fighter needs Wisdom higher than 3, but if you ever need it, you can use a Potion of Insight. That's "meta-gaming".

It's debatable whether a Fighter really needs Charisma higher than 3 in BG2. If it's less than 5, I think Edwin will leave the group when you tell him you're going to fight a certain red dragon. And of course, store prices are higher if your Charisma is low. Allowing that kind of information to affect the way you distribute stat points is "meta-gaming". But I just don't see why you'd have your character wear a Ring of Human Influence throughout the entire game. You simply don't need Charisma 18 all the time. Rings of protection, free action, fire resistance, regeneration, anti-venom, Gaxx, and others already mentioned are much more useful. Of course, you can always take off a ring and wear the Ring of Human Influence when you enter a store, but it's even easier to let a party member with higher Charisma talk to the merchant. Honestly, I don't even bother with the Ring of Human Influence at all.

That being said, I'd rather put extra points in Charisma instead of putting extra points in Wisdom and Intelligence. Besides, like kmonster said, with a decent roll of 85 stat points, which isn't that hard to attain, you can give your Fighter 18, 18, 18, 10, 3, 18 (or 18, 18, 18, 18, 3, 10) so I don't know why we're talking about Intelligence 3 or Charisma 3 in the first place.

Amran_X_Kaiser · Post by **Amran_X_Kaiser** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:59 am

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Good point, but each stat have their bonuses - wisdom are for save vs spells - 18 charisma is a little over the top if your a fighter unless its your protaginst. Having bonuses in wisdom aid any character - a fighter more than most aside from the mage perhaps in making a successful save against spells by enemy casters are usually the only thing that can disable or kill them.

However when you fight those mindflayer - what if you didn't go through every portion of the game to retrieve those items and have to rely on skill items to take them down ? Having a greater intelligence will certainly aid you then - but I agree with you on the ring argument.

I tend to give my fighter 12 in those mental stats so your not alone there - if only to reduce the amount of times I have to rely on items.

Good point lets back to the original dual-axe post this was meant to be.

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:04 am

Wisdom and Inteligence added saves are removed from Baldur's Gate due to engine limitations, AFAIK.

Amran_X_Kaiser · Post by **Amran_X_Kaiser** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:28 am

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Well thats a kick in the pants for those playing BG or TotSC for sure.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:02 am

[QUOTE=Luis Antonio]Wisdom and Inteligence added saves are removed from Baldur's Gate due to engine limitations, AFAIK.[/QUOTE]
If I remember correctly, Xyx said he heard that from Kevin Dorner (of Baldurdash fame), who was given that information by someone from Bioware. As rumors go, it seems fairly credible to me, so I believe it.

So for those who missed the earlier posts on this topic: THE MANUAL IS WRONG. High Wisdom does not give a Fighter any saving throw bonuses. It is disappointing indeed.

Cuchulain82 · Post by **Cuchulain82** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:35 pm

Excellent reply Vondondu. Your posts continue to be some of the best reading around!

[QUOTE=VonDondu]So for those who missed the earlier posts on this topic: THE MANUAL IS WRONG. High Wisdom does not give a Fighter any saving throw bonuses. It is disappointing indeed.[/QUOTE]
Of all the things to not impliment, this does seem ridiculous. But, then again, there is no XP bonus for a primary stat of 16 or higher (another 2nd ed gem), so I guess the programmers had to make choices.

Luis Antonio · Post by **Luis Antonio** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:09 pm

[QUOTE=Cuchulain82]Excellent reply Vondondu. Your posts continue to be some of the best reading around!

[/QUOTE]

I agree completely. Vondondu rules all!

Oh the English manual at least is not THAT inacurate. The translated manual, however, sucks completely. And, of course, has some phrases cutted into the half (grrr) and spell descriptions repeated.

Nimiety · Post by **Nimiety** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:13 pm

Well.......

I, for one, have always loved axes. I think that dual wielding them can be a very effective strategy when fighting mages as well.

There are a few axes that deal different kinds of elemental damage - that means that even if your enemy has stone skins, the elemental damage will still punch through and hurt them - this means good spell disruption.

Other axes are very effective against undead, giving better insta-kill than the certain fabled mace. Why? Because they work at range - who cares about immunity to level drain when they can't even touch you. Of course, the very axe I'm thinking of can be upgraded (with the item upgrade mod?) to offer that immunity too.

The best part is that three of the best axes can be obtained early and easily.

If you continue on farther in the game, there is another axe that can be upgraded to be one of the best weapons in the game, with innate abilities, plus great offensive potential, all in one package.

In short, yes, dual wielding axes is a very good choice.
N....

Amran_X_Kaiser · Post by **Amran_X_Kaiser** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:47 pm

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Try a longsword/axe combo - adjathas drinker and frostreaver oh oh oh - their are buckets of combos so please post some more !