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are summons any good?

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Thrifalas
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Post by Thrifalas »

Get five clones. Use fire staff thingie. Laugh as the big dragon w/o death spells is being chased through the room by 100 fire elementals. :) Yes, they sure are funny to play with, but hardly useful.

I disagree with most posters here. Apart from the soloing sorcerer, you hardly need summons. They all serve a purpose in specific battles, but it's not usefull to summon them everywhere.

Bears are a complete waste of spell slots. Skeletons are awesome as spell-absorbing pets as they are immune to tons of spells, including any thing charming (which usually is the most annoying kind of spells). Mordenkainen's Sword is the same as skeletons, but they're also immune to many forms of melee weapons and be useful in maaaany nasty situations. Planetars and Devas are good for additional spellcasting, and they're gated so no use casting death spell. And of cource, Juggernaught Golem is a classic one that never fails.

But every battle that's a challenge, like imp. mindflayers or eclipse, ignores the summons, so it's just planetars and juggernaught that's usefull here (for defense and some nasty pounding).
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Post by Thrifalas »

[QUOTE=snoopyofour]Which brings me to another point, why would you be concerned about magic users in the first place?[/QUOTE]

Because the game is based around magic users. A magic user will always, always, always wipe the floor with a non-caster. It's been proven so many times over it's not something to be discussed. If the casters in the game is easy... so's everything. And that's another story.

[QUOTE=snoopyofour]Assuming you have a powerful fighter and a spellcaster with death ward, then there should be absolutely no mage in game that poses a threat.[/QUOTE]

If that fighter is a raging barbarian and you're talking the unmodded game, then no, it's not a problem. But then again, nothing in the game is. It's just like saying that take any sorc and nothing in the game is a problem. :)
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Post by snoopyofour »

"A magic user will always, always, always wipe the floor with a non-caster. It's been proven so many times over it's not something to be discussed."

Um...maybe in your head. Afraid that on the outside its a different story. No magic user has a chance against a high level fighter character (especially a barbarian). Stoneskin is useless because elemental weapons still get damage through and disrupt spells. Celestial fury can always render a mage helpless and if you want to waste the ability slots you can always cast Resist Magic with whirlwind attack. This coupled with the fact that most mages don't have the spell power capable of killing a powerful barbarian. As far as playing them goes, mages come in handy every once in a while but there are only two fights in the game where I would consider them necessary: Melissan and Demigorgon.

"It's just like saying that take any sorc and nothing in the game is a problem."
Maybe you haven't played the game because thats the only way that you would think that a solo sorceror would have a chance against beholders, golems, and just about everything in the underdark. In fact I'm so tired of hearing how easy it is to solo with mages when I haven't heard one person tell me how they would win fights like Suneer or Balor or any other fight with magic resistant creatures and no time to summon...and if you say Slayer change I will laugh at you.
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Post by Thrifalas »

[QUOTE=snoopyofour]"A magic user will always, always, always wipe the floor with a non-caster. It's been proven so many times over it's not something to be discussed."

Um...maybe in your head. Afraid that on the outside its a different story. No magic user has a chance against a high level fighter character (especially a barbarian). Stoneskin is useless because elemental weapons still get damage through and disrupt spells. Celestial fury can always render a mage helpless and if you want to waste the ability slots you can always cast Resist Magic with whirlwind attack. This coupled with the fact that most mages don't have the spell power capable of killing a powerful barbarian. As far as playing them goes, mages come in handy every once in a while but there are only two fights in the game where I would consider them necessary: Melissan and Demigorgon.

"It's just like saying that take any sorc and nothing in the game is a problem."
Maybe you haven't played the game because thats the only way that you would think that a solo sorceror would have a chance against beholders, golems, and just about everything in the underdark. In fact I'm so tired of hearing how easy it is to solo with mages when I haven't heard one person tell me how they would win fights like Suneer or Balor or any other fight with magic resistant creatures and no time to summon...and if you say Slayer change I will laugh at you.[/QUOTE]

I've been laughing so hard at you it's hard for me to write a replay. I will make it short and concist though, don't feel like wasting my time on such a noob as yourself ^^

1: Imprisonment will kill your barb, re-equipping SotM will kill your barb, WotB will kill your barb, hell even mm will kill your barb. Thing is that you never ever can hit the mage while he casts his spells.

2: Stoneskin alone is only used by a couple of in-game mages. If that's the only mages you've fought, of cource you think mages are weak. Stoneskin is combined with pro-mw, pro-ele and so on, to nullify all attacks made on the mage.

3. You don't think there's a reason everyone says a sorc is the easiest way to solo? Of cource you have to know how to play him, so I'm not surprised you don't agree. Magic resistant creatures can be brought down by many ways: Slayer, as you mention is one of them. Summoning spells like Planetars and Jaggernaughts is another. Time/Trigger with "Lower Resistance" and "Greater Malison" will let you kill anything with a FoD. Or you can always pound the poor guy down with some defensive spells, tenser's and a cool weapon.

Thing is, it looks to me like you've just played the game like twice and felt really overpowered by killing the vanilla games mages with your barbarian. Try to install tactics, ascension and stuff like that. You would never, ever ever ever ever ever manage the first challenge from those mods.

Or just try improved mages from tactics. combined with improved liches. Good luck and have fun trying to whirlwind those baddies down.

You're still like 5 years of playing behind everyone else. Go play some and try again in a couple of years. Ciao. ;)
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Post by snoopyofour »

"Thing is, it looks to me like you've just played the game like twice and felt really overpowered by killing the vanilla games mages with your barbarian."

lol, this is actually funny because its so accurate. But since you are so much more experienced then me I'll drop the defensive thing you've obviously sunk enough time into this game to be an authority, way more than I'd ever be willing to put into a game. first of all, what do all of these refer to: SotM, FoD, WotB. Secondly, even if with the protective spell combination you mentioned a normal weapon coupled with a gwa will still have them hurting within a single round (unless they changed the number of attacks stoneskin can block) and unless there are mages with natural immunities to normal weapons, I don't remember any. Even if they did you just have to wait them out with Resist Magic. So unless you've got something to add to this then your whole "you would never never never never never never (gasp) ...never hit them" thing is bunk. Besides, I fail to see why I should be interested in a bunch of mods made by some programmers who just wanted mages to be stronger so they altered the game. I'll do it just to stick to all the people who say it can't be done though, unless this is just a bunch of mages that happen to have Imprisonment added to their roster. That spell is the weakest thing in the game. A spell that no character besides a mage with a ninth level protection spell equipped can resist, soooooooo lame.
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Post by Pellinore »

unless this is just a bunch of mages that happen to have Imprisonment added to their roster. That spell is the weakest thing in the game. A spell that no character besides a mage with a ninth level protection spell equipped can resist, soooooooo lame.
Okay, whilst I just love berserkers and raging barbarians, I will agree that a well played 16+ level magic user will toast a likewise levelled fighter. Its just not fair, levels 1 thru 10...I will give to the fighter. Levels 11 thru 14 I will say are close. After that, it just gets silly. As long as you are skilled enough to know how to keep from being ganged up on, arcane casters are down right stupid with their power. Some areas of the game are much better suited for fighters but there are some which really need casters.
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Post by Luis Antonio »

@Snoopy, please, play tactics, cool down and return. You havent sunk (your word) time in the game, ok, but people have. And Pellinore has played a wee little bit more than you, it seems. Mages are powerhouses in the game yes, and so are barbarians - but mages allow you to take strategies and make things your barbarian wouldnt dream of. While hacking away is possible with just the addition of a simple sixth or seventh level spell (tenser's transformation) while you can use cheese and tenser with mislead and your 25th level barbarian is as good as dead as he cannot dispell a sixth level mage mislead, nor the tenser transformation. Let us not mention summons - 25th level barbarian versus Planetar. Cast time stop - 12th level mage kills your barbarian.
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Post by Pellinore »

12th level mage....TIMESTOP???? Mebbee you found something I didn't. I know my berserker will wade thru the mindflayers in BG2 like they are a bunch a pansies but the beholders quickly show why mages are sooo nice. As far as mages go...the magic words are: contingency, spell sequencer, spell trigger, and chain contingency...oh and there is a 4th level one like contingency ...can't recall the name of it. These spells make the casting of other spells so fast the fighter can't do anything about it. But I do love playing my berserker.
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Post by snoopyofour »

Why would a barbarian need to dispel a mislead when he can kill it in a round or less. You waste that much time just casting true sight. I recently started a tactics game and while doing it I imported my level 20 barbarian so I could continue leveling him up. Big MISTAKE! Almost every fight I get into is tailored to my highlevel party leader. But I don't usually use my barbarian, for the most part I don't need him and if I do use him I make sure that I neglect the couple of highlevel abilities he has. I got stuck on this one fight in the planar sphere for a long time (I think I went in way to early, my party is mostly around level 8 and 9). It was really making me crazy. I can't stand how cheesy mages are in this mod (the casting haste and then running away never ceases to piss (can I say "piss", if no then sorry) me off). Anyway, it was four mages with a few snake dudes escort and anyway, I was losing my mind. My c/r (I sure hope this guy gets more useful than he is now, he gets killed by death spell for the love!) is so low level he can't even cast that protection from confusion spell so inevitably all my guys get hit by it and end up killing my sorceress which for me means a reload because I also can't cast raise dead. I somehow made the huge slip up of not picking breach for one of my spells so removing the millions of spell protections that these guys have (which is weak to begin with, they aren't using contingency or spell trigger they just DO IT) isn't an option. So after dying for the umpteenth time I just decide to play it old school. So I send in my level 9 berserker by himself. These mages are at least level 16 because it takes about 8 hits to dispell their stoneskin there are also four of them, my berserker...level 9. Anyway, he killed them all without needing to use so much as a potion. It was this easy without any of the items I like to use, without any of the abilities I like to use, and without any decent weapons. The great thing about mages is they can reek havoc on an entire party at once but against a single enemy they're wasted. Yeah, using all the spell storing devices can make a wizard incredibly powerful but where's the fun in that when its only good for one fight and then you have to rest? But in any case, all of this will be a moot point when my sorceress gets breach, that should effectively be the end of my trouble with mages. I love that spell.

What is cheese, what are you talking about? Also, unless they made planetars a lot better they aren't going to beat even an 18th level barbarian. Once you reach high levels its just a matter of whether or not you want to waste a skill slot. Tenser against a barbarian? Are you kidding? You still get one attack per round, two if you're hasted, that means you'll be able to hit a barbarian once or twice before he finishes off the mislead and puts the hurt on you. Barbarian uses harden, putting him up to 60% resistance to everyphysical attack. You're doing less than half damage and hitting half as many times per round. Assuming that the barbarian has a few health potions, he can afford to wait out even your most powerful defensive spells. If you use tensors in a fight with a barbarian its your funeral. A mages only chance is to have three Abaziagall (whatever it is) Scorchers set in a spell trigger and then hope that a barbarian with mr 50 (Resist Magic) gets hit by all of them, bad odds. Don't mention death magic, I've got Hindo's Doom. This mod was made for people who love mages they did nothing to improve the fighters except modify the AI a little. So if mages happen to be a little scarier (and I do mean "a little") in this mod its inconsequential
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Post by Luis Antonio »

[QUOTE=Pellinore]12th level mage....TIMESTOP???? [/QUOTE]

LOL no, I have mixed up. I was with the 6th level spells on my mind at that time :p

@snoopy: You're a hack and slash gamer. Have you ever soloed a barbarian? I did, it was thousand times worst than soloing a bard. A BARD. What about a sorceror? They'd wipe out your barbarian with simple spells. A mage could only disappear from your sight with a simple spell, which takes less than a round to cast. Mislead rules, and its insta cast. Blindness is nearly insta cast. Magic missle is too. Nature beauty is insta cast and will slaughter enemies everywhere, blindness no save. A Druid needs only a bear or two between you and he. And he can have those easily.
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Post by snoopyofour »

Mislead: gone in two hits, three if I miss.

Blindness: you better be Irish if you think your luck is that good

Nature's Beauty: Insta'cast? Check you're manual pal. Or better yet you can just look at this very site. Also, yeah that five foot radius, its really really hard to get out of the way of that one.:laugh:

Invisibility: yeah I guess you could do that and cast a bunch of protection spells but as soon as you try to do something about it i'm just going to take a sip of one of my invisibility brewskies and wait you out. Oh and don't bother with true sight, my cloak of non-detection tends to make that a waste of a spell.


Bears: Fine I'll use a bow, steelskins would be a much better idea but I guess if you did that I could just use my flail of ages, that always gets through.

God :D I feel like Ethan Hawke in Gattaca. "How are you doing this snoopy? How have you done any of this? You're just a hack-and-slash gamer!" Lol

oh yeah, and I didn't forget about magic missile: Cloak of Mirroring
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Post by Luis Antonio »

Yup, I written it wrong - not insta cast, yup, ye'r right.

But the fact is - Mages ARE stronger than fighters. Your barbarian wouldnt have the chance. Mages can buff, can haste themselves, can turn into pure fighters, can summon, can blind, slow, stoneskin, while your barbarian can hack and slash, drink potions and enrage. Mages drink potions as well, mages can use blur to avoid being hit, protection from good if your fighter is evil aligned and can fire all that through triggers or even use wands - wands of stun, summoning, fire and resurrection to avoid being killed by your oh so powerfull fighter if he trespasses the mage stoneskin with arrows. And they can also cast from scroll, when you wont be able to disrupt them ever, ever, even if they're level 1. So, give my mage 1 round and I'll freeze you. Give my mage 2 rounds and I'll throw your organs on the walls. Give my mage 3 rounds and you've been turned into meatballs, ready for barbeque.

Give your fighter 1 round and he has to reach me or start firing arrows. Give your figter 2 rounds and he'll do the same and have a potion. give your fighter 3 rounds and he will still be trying to hack and slash me.

With a mage you can fire 7 spells per round. None would have a chance, if your fighter goes against a bard, the bard can mislead and simulacrum, one of them will sing, other will cast spells, and so on. Not to mention the multiple cheeses - Will your barbarian be able to counteract 5 lesser fire elementals, fire arrows at my mage who's casting via scrools/wands and still win? I doubt it.
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Post by Pellinore »

Don't forget 8th level save Maze with no save...... gives the mage LOTS of time to prepare a wonderful little birthday surprise for the fighter when he comes out of the maze:mischief:
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Post by Pellinore »

This seems to have gotten off topic so to bring us back on topic.....that little birthday surprise for the fighter could very well be summons like planetars, elementals, invisible stalkers, gated beings...
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Post by snoopyofour »

Firstly, Pellinore, your strategy is good for any normal fighter but you forgot that when enraged my barbarian is immune to maze. Simple mistake though, anyone could make it.

Now for Antonio

"Mages drink potions as well, mages can use blur to avoid being hit, protection from good if your fighter is evil aligned and can fire all that through triggers or even use wands - wands of stun, summoning, fire and resurrection to avoid being killed by your oh so powerfull fighter if he trespasses the mage stoneskin with arrows. And they can also cast from scroll, when you wont be able to disrupt them ever, ever, even if they're level 1. So, give my mage 1 round and I'll freeze you. Give my mage 2 rounds and I'll throw your organs on the walls. Give my mage 3 rounds and you've been turned into meatballs, ready for barbeque."

1. You're going to need some much better protection spells than those if you want to avoid getting hit by a barbarian with -12 thaco.

2. The wands are absolutely a moot point. They are incapable of doing enough damage to even warrant attention and...exactly how are you going to resurrect yourself when you're dead?

3. Hmmmm, well if you get a scroll then its only fair that I get one and I choose protection from magic (its actually pretty easy to get a them). So um this is the part where your mage gets turned into sushi.

"With a mage you can fire 7 spells per round"

Statements like this make it really hard for me to believe that you've played the game. It takes most of a round just for you're mages aura to clear after each spell not including the time spent in casting. If you are referring to improved alacrity then you really should specify that. Secondly,you have to be able to cast that which is really tough when you are dead in two to three hits and the casting takes the entire round (Stoneskin is not going to save you here). Even if you do I can still go invisible and simply wait it out. And remember, if I use Celestial fury, you can at any time be frozen for one or more rounds. You might concievably never move again after my first strike.

"So, give my mage 1 round and I'll freeze you. Give my mage 2 rounds and I'll throw your organs on the walls. Give my mage 3 rounds and you've been turned into meatballs, ready for barbeque"

hmmm, very explicit but it just sounds like you're bluffing, especially since you haven't mentioned one tactic I can't counter with amazing ease. I haven't even had to mention any of the messier HLA's or my personal favorite item. ;)

"Give your fighter 1 round and he has to reach me or start firing arrows. Give your figter 2 rounds and he'll do the same and have a potion. give your fighter 3 rounds and he will still be trying to hack and slash me."

Give my barbarian three rounds and he'll already be collecting your gear.:angel:
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Post by Luis Antonio »

Snoopy: I will no longer discuss this with you but I'll point you TESTED information, guides that players have been using for ages, and I hope you do use them too, and give a try to tactics, cause it will show you how unfit is a barbarian for battle against mages.

http://members.chello.nl/~j.vanthull/BG2SR/Main.htm - Spell guide

http://members.chello.nl/~j.vanthull/BG ... Cheese.htm - Cheese guide.

I hope you will read those, and I forgive you for telling I havent played this game. Alas, I have soloed the game with most classes, ended it vanilla and then with tactics. I forgive you, yes. If you read, I will forgive you. Yup, thats fair.
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Post by snoopyofour »

Then how could you possibly think that a mage could cast seven spells per round? Even with vecna's robe and improved alacrity that's a stretch.
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Post by Sytze »

I am afraid they are correct, snoopyofour. Mages are more powerful than any fighter class, or any other dual/multiclass without mage spells for that matter.

For example, Mage: Protection from Magic Weapons, Stoneskin, Mirror Image.

There's your untouchable mage.

Now he can cast Timestop without any problems, and cast Improved Alacrity while your Barbarian stands helpless. Once that combo comes out, mages are unbeatable. As much as I hate to say it (I don't like mages that much myself, I'm usually playing a multi Fighter(Archer)-Thief), no character, not even my favorite one, wins a battle against a mage. If I play a Barbarian against a Mage, and I control both of them, a Mage will win. It is as easy as that.

The game designers unfortunately made the mage spells much too powerful and open to all sorts of cheese. Cheese, by the way, means exploiting the game engine. There are several threads which discuss this particular subject. If you would want to know more about the concept, try a search, especially at the SoA forums.

You attack with Flail of Ages and Hindo’s Doom? I swallow a potion, clear the space between you and me, and cast PfMW –although the space doesn’t need to be that great, PfMW weapons is cast abnormally quick. You equip a normal sword? I cast Stoneskin. What then? Your Barb swings death air, his hits bounce off of the wizard's spells harmlessly. You have 90% magic resistance? I cast Lower Resistance. You have Cloak of Mirroring? Bring on the area spells and summons. I am out of damaging spells? Here comes Improved Haste, Black Blade of Disaster, and Tenser.

Mages are nasty, too nasty for comfort, especially when you play against another 'real' opponent or if you install tactics. The other classes pale in comparison to mages and their spells. It is the unfortunate truth for people who really like other classes and firmly believe their character is unbeatable.
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Post by Luis Antonio »

[QUOTE= UU's cheeseguide]Chain Contingency

Or better known as the cheese spell...the spell is almost designed for cheese with malice aforethought.....

Lets start off with my own little discovery....

First, the game engine will not allow you to target invisible or improved invisible creatures with spells, this is why knowledgable sorcerors use area effect spells almost exclusively.

But chain contingency will target improved invisible creatures!!!! liches in the tactics mod like to stack improved invisibility, and spell immunity divination, and spell immunity abjuration, making liches immune to true sight, and remove magic, and their improved invisibility makes them immune to magic defence breakers like spell strike which must be cast at a target, thus the canonical way of attacking them is to wait until their protection from magic weapons wear off, and attack with a protected fighter...but a fighter mage, with the spell chain contingency, can attack a lich, use sunfire via spell trigger to blast the mummies and skeleton warrior friends of the lich (isolating the target, you need to isolate him, since you cannot control the spell target), and chain a triple ruby ray of reversal .Set it to trigger at see enemy, cast at nearest enemy, hence why you have to kill off the liche's mummy and skelly friends. Ruby ray is alteration, so spell immunity abjuration is useless, this will dump its spell immunities then hit with remove magic (liches are immune to breach) and bash it to death with azuredge....this also works on undead sola, except i send in a hasted npc to trigger the dialog, and exit the room and close the door....sola follows you with dimention door, but once he is isolated, he can be chain hit with spell protection breakers and easily bashed to death....



the infamous 7 spells per round trick requires chain contingency....chain contingency ignores acuity, it casts instantly, ignoring the 1 spell per round the game engine enforces, so you can

face enemy, cast chain contingency, set to go off when facing enemy, load up with whatever spells you want, then cast contingency, which like its much more useful brother chain contingency also ignores acuity, and unleash a spell sequencer or spell trigger....3 spells via trigger or sequencer, 1 spell with contingency, 3 with chain contingency...7 spells...the chain contingency and contingency spells will go off in the same round....( a good kill combo is a triple sunfire via trigger, and sunfire or improved haste via contingency, and a triple sunfire via chain contingency or ruby ray, breach and slow in chain contingency...almost anything is good)




wildmages love this spell, (be warned, the tactics mod or sola mod nerfs this evil trick) you can load up a triple improved chaos shield, which STACKS 3 improved chaos shield, thus you can combat cast all your reckless dweomers almost without any worries you will get a bad wild surge...each improved chaos shield adds to the wild surge roll, so the way i understand wild surges, you get a 25 point bonus per improved chaos shield, and you add the level of the wildmage to the roll, so you end up rolling 100 on the wild surge almost every time....and a 100 on the wild surge table is "spell casts normally" so in combat, a wild mage can with preparation cast spells just like a sorceror, without any fears of a bad wild surge, while his/her nrd's lasts...



aerie can set up a triple summon deva target self for really nasty encounters...(wes weimers tactics mod or sola mod nerfs this too..sigh...) and using potion swap jahiera can do a triple summon elemental princes(once again, wes mods nerfs this...)..and if you do have tactics mod or sola installed, having sola or a fighter mage triple summon mordenkainen sword target self can be a lifesaver when your fighter mage is getting chopped to bits...or just hasted can race into a room full of beasties, the spell triggers, and you can race out and close the door behind you while the swords do their thing...[/QUOTE]

Seven spells per round, yes.


[QUOTE=UU cheeseguide]Nature's Beauty, the wonderspell

Natures Beauty is a truly wonderful spell, it will permanently blind a bunch of enemies within meelee distances from the caster, allowing you to hit them with ranged attacks or use spells, and they will only be able to retaliate with meelee attacks only, and it cannot be saved against!!! However the 3 flaws are it can only be cast by druids, (jahiera or ick! Cernd), it has a fairly long cast time, and its stopped cold by magic resistance...but using the sick and twisted potion swap cheese, (see above) you can eliminate 2 out of the 3 draw backs, making it THE spell for really nasty encounters...once you get some chain contingency scrolls, have jahirea potion swap a scroll, and load up a chain contingency (note: you have to click on the priest spells selection in the chain contingency screen) with a triple nature's beauty set on self when you see a enemy, a triple natures beauty is a terrifying thing for most enemies, its chain contingencied, so it is not interruptable, and it triggers fast, and by using a triple, you have increased its chances of getting past magic resistance...for example, a dragon has about 60% resistance to magic, so most of the time a spell is stopped cold, until you manage to lower its resistance..but a triple natures beauty will force the game to roll 3 times for the spell attack, giving you a much higher chance to get in the successful blinding...this spell is a must for eclipse, and the heart seal in watchers keep...[/QUOTE]

If it aint insta cast as you've said.

Alas, thank you Sytze :D
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Post by snoopyofour »

Finally, someone willing to play along. Alright Sytze lets get to it.

"You attack with Flail of Ages and Hindo’s Doom? I swallow a potion, clear the space between you and me, and cast PfMW –although the space doesn’t need to be that great, PfMW weapons is cast abnormally quick. You equip a normal sword? I cast Stoneskin. What then? Your Barb swings death air, his hits bounce off of the wizard's spells harmlessly. You have 90% magic resistance? I cast Lower Resistance. You have Cloak of Mirroring? Bring on the area spells and summons. I am out of damaging spells? Here comes Improved Haste, Black Blade of Disaster, and Tenser."

You want to make some space? That'll be tough, my barbarian has an improved movement rate which coupled with boots of speed makes him the fastest character in the game (barring monks). Now, you and I both know you aren't going to get to cast stoneskin immediately after PMW, you're going to take a hit at least, probably a couple while waiting for your aura to clear. PS: Remember if I launch Smite right now you won't be able to defend and it will have you frozen for the next 3 hits which will be critical. No mage survives that. But lets for a moment consider that you do get both off. I'm going to use a whirlwind and start in on your stoneskin. I know that I probably won't get through in time to stop your next spell but entire time that I'm doing this I'm waiting to see you begin casting and at the moment that you do I'm going to hit you with Cone of Cold from my white dragon scale. Now while your mage is standing around waiting for his next casting time I'm going to cast another whirlwind and begin attacking. You'll begin you're next spell but about mid way through it your stone skin will run out and within seconds you'll be dead. The only way a mage can win a fight with a barbarian is with spell triggers and contingencies, or cheese but that's so lame I don't even talk about it, I would consider editing my character to have complete immunity to magic akin to the level of cheapness involved in spell cheese.

I know I've mentioned everything in a barbarians favor when it comes to Tensors fights. By the way, you're wasting a sixth level spell by casting improved haste on yourself. When your attack rate is one, doubling and adding one are the same thing. (Please don't make me explain anymore than that.) So now you've got a pretty decent weapon, pretty decent thaco, and a tolerable amount of hp. IF somehow you've managed to get your ac low enough that I don't hit every time, I'm going to turn on critical strike or (if I'm feeling mean) smite.

But anyway, I'm just going to go finish tactics and ascension. Here's the deal, someone here tell me the name of a mage (and location if possible) that you think I would have no chance of beating with a barbarian (one on one if possible, I would like this little experiment to be uncluttered) and when I've done it maybe somebody will actually take my word on this.

Sytze did you say you have a fighter/theif? You should easily be able to think of ways to handle mages, I would actually prefer to fight a mage with a fighter thief. Use any item?! Mislead with non-detection with Corsyamer (whatever, big paladin sword) with ruby ray and breach with fighter HLA's? Come on man! Let's get a little creative!
When in doubt...kick it

Word to the wise, published opinions aren't facts, for those who can't tell the difference.
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