Demi-gods, avatars, and nonsense.

Waverly · Post by **Waverly** » Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:43 pm

Don't have my trilogy at the office, Nighthawk, but the confusion comes in I think a little earlier in the encounter. My memory (which obviously is not perfect) tells me that the first description of the balrog involves "a shadow of darkness like two great wings." This leads many to believe that the latter wings are a metaphor, not actual wings. Clearly, the balrog is more creature of nothingness than substance- but I am with you: he had wings.

Nighthawk · Post by **Nighthawk** » Wed Jan 10, 2001 6:20 pm

Yes, I saw that when I re-read after posting the first time. Darkness and fire.

On second read I think that it is wings of shadow but then the creature is mostly shadow anyway...however I don't remember a case ever of a balrog flying.

Still reading about Gandalf.

Drakron Du´Dark · Post by **Drakron Du´Dark** » Wed Jan 10, 2001 6:25 pm

If He could fly he would ba able to suvive the fall.I cant tell you very much since my books are translated.And translated books usualy lost some of the meaning do to translators errors.

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"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not became a monster... when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss gazes into you..."
Friedrich Nietzsche

Nighthawk · Post by **Nighthawk** » Wed Jan 10, 2001 6:37 pm

They both survived the fall, at least initially, as well as combat during the long fall. However on further review it does seem Gandalf perished in the end after killing the balrog. I can't find the text on-line and don't have the book handy, but found this from one of Tolkien's letters:

"Gandalf really 'died', and was changed: for that seems to me the only real cheating, to represent anything that can be called 'death' as making no difference... He was sent by a mere prudent plan of the angelic Valar or govenors; but Authority had taken up this plan and enlarged it, at the moment of its failure. 'Naked I was sent back- for a brief time, until my task is done'. Sent back by whom, and whence? Not by the 'gods' whose business is only with this embodied world and its time; for he passed 'out of thought and time'. Naked is alas! unclear. It was meant just literally, 'unclothed like a child' (not disincarnate), and so ready to receive the white robes of the highest."

It also appears he was sent back not by the Valar, but by Eru, Illuvatar himself.

Hmm...are we WAY off the topic of BG2 or what!

Waverly · Post by **Waverly** » Thu Jan 11, 2001 8:31 am

Tolkein's letters often cast a great deal of light on some of the more difficult concepts. He would also take the time to weave a loose thread (a mistake perhaps) back into the story so that it made sense. Why didn't someone just cast ressurect on him

TrIp-WiRe · Post by **TrIp-WiRe** » Thu Jan 11, 2001 9:07 am

Just to clear things up - I live in Johannesburg South Africa and Tolkien was born in Bloomfontein about 3.5 hrs South of where I am.

FoulDwimmerlaik · Post by **FoulDwimmerlaik** » Thu Jan 11, 2001 9:29 am

@waverly:
Amazing. Everytime I get on this board, you're here. I've said it before, this game is a sickness.

To your point about casting ressurection on The Grey Pilgrim: amen!

Waverly · Post by **Waverly** » Thu Jan 11, 2001 9:32 am

Foul, one or both of us are very sick. I just kind of monitor the board while talking on the phone or sorting though my papers - so I am technically still very much working. How about you?

FoulDwimmerlaik · Post by **FoulDwimmerlaik** » Thu Jan 11, 2001 2:51 pm

Wave:
Agreed. Both of us are sick. I run business development for a group of advertising firms, and since I discovered this place a few days ago, I've had it up all day. I'm usually not in my office, but in between meetings...I come back...So I really am working as well, though this is proving to be a nice distraction...

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » Fri May 11, 2001 9:52 am

Moving topic to Speak Your Mind...