Rolemodels

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Thu May 10, 2001 1:04 pm

I don't have a role model...

Should I have one?

EMINEM · Post by **EMINEM** » Thu May 10, 2001 6:07 pm

Patrick Stewart... gay?

No, I don't believe that for a moment. He was married for over 25 years, has at least two children, and eventually divorced his wife over an affair with a beautiful female co-star.

In any case, it's the character he portrays, not himself, that inspires my emulation.

With regards to the above post, I think consciously or unconsciously, we all have our role-models, whether they be parents, teachers, brothers, sisters, sports heroes etc... It's just that for some people, the decision to imitate another is deliberate, like a basketball hopeful watching Michael Jordan in action.

[ 05-10-2001: Message edited by: EMINEM ]

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu May 10, 2001 6:36 pm

Since when is being married to a person of the opposite sex and having childen a proof of sexual identity? I know many gay men and women who have relationship with the other sex because they want a family. I suppose it will be that way until gay couples are allowed to adopt children (a very hot debate in Sweden right now.)

Regarding Patrick Stewart, I will not elaborate more on his sexual identity since I don't know him personally. All I know is that I heard him say in an interview some years ago that he was gay, but I might have misunderstood something or he might have been joking. My husband claims he has watched a talk show several years ago where mr Stewart also said he was gay, but he may also have misunderstood.

Anyway, gay, bi or hetero does not matter the least to me, he is a very fine actor, he is very handsome and I also think it's cool that a Royal Shakespeare Company actor starts playing in Star Trek.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Thu May 10, 2001 6:57 pm

Originally posted by C Elegans:


Anyway, gay, bi or hetero does not matter the least to me, he is a very fine actor, he is very handsome and I also think it's cool that a Royal Shakespeare Company actor starts playing in Star Trek.

Yes he is...almost as good as James Tiberus Kirk

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu May 10, 2001 7:25 pm

I can't really compare Picard and Kirk, I don't even like the Star Trek series.

My ex husband used to call me "ms Spock" and I don't know if that's why he married me or divorced me

Waverly · Post by **Waverly** » Thu May 10, 2001 7:30 pm

Kirk always got the girl

, Piccard... well he's Piccard. How James T. survived without being afflicted by space herpes is beyond me.

On a side note, ever notice how nearly every friendly alien race has females that look different... but not so different as to be unnattractive? This holds for nealy any series or movie.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Thu May 10, 2001 7:44 pm

Originally posted by Waverly:
Kirk always got the girl , Piccard... well he's Piccard. How James T. survived without being afflicted by space herpes is beyond me..

With Kirk....the newbe always dies

He get's the girl...and Spock always get's the best of McCoy.

With Piccard.....he always get's the last laugh.

Out of the two...if I was going to be on thier ship....I would choose Piccard.

(1) I would be a new person....(Really don't want to die on thefirst show...Capt. Kirk

)

(2) Piccard ran a tighter ship .....plus the holo deck was really improved.

Originally posted by Waverly:
On a side note, ever notice how nearly every friendly alien race has females that look different... but not so different as to be unnattractive? This holds for nealy any series or movie.

Yes it does.

EMINEM · Post by **EMINEM** » Thu May 10, 2001 7:47 pm

Originally posted by C Elegans:
Since when is being married to a person of the opposite sex and having childen a proof of sexual identity? I know many gay men and women who have relationship with the other sex because they want a family. .

What? I can't believe what I just read. You mean to say that a man married to woman for over 25 years, having children with said wife, and breaking up over another woman IS NOT proof of sexual identity? What will it take yo convince you> You'd better check your sources again, because if what you state is followed to its logical conclusion, then every happily married family man could be suspected of being gay, and heterosexual singles who are unable to keep a steady boy/girl friend - even more so.

[ 05-10-2001: Message edited by: EMINEM ]

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu May 10, 2001 7:50 pm

This got me to think about a program I watched at Discovery some years ago about women who claimed to have romantic/sexual relationships with aliens. It's quite intersting that creatures from another solar system or even another galaxy, should be attracted to homo homo sapiens (and vice vers). I mean, we humans share genome with chimps to 99%, and still very few interspecies relationsships occur.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Thu May 10, 2001 7:50 pm

Originally posted by EMINEM:

What?! I can't believe what I just read! You mean to say that a man married to woman for over 25 years, having children with said wife, and breaking up over another woman IS NOT proof of sexual identity?! You'd better check your sources again. If what you say is followed to its logical conclusion, then every happily married family man must a closet homosexual, not to mention those who are heterosexual singles.

I believe she mean's it has happened before. I don't know if he is or isn't. I know I watched a movie were he played one. I really don't think it matters if he is or isn't....it's his life to live.

EMINEM · Post by **EMINEM** » Thu May 10, 2001 7:53 pm

[ 05-10-2001: Message edited by: EMINEM ]

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu May 10, 2001 8:00 pm

From Eminem:

What?! I can't believe what I just read! You mean to say that a man married to woman for over 25 years, having children with said wife, and breaking up over another woman IS NOT proof of sexual identity?! You'd better check your sources again. If what you say is followed to its logical conclusion, then every happily married family man must a closet homosexual, not to mention those who are heterosexual singles.

@Eminem, to your first point, the composer Camille Saint-Saens was married all his life, and had two children. Yet in later years he moved to Algeria, and had numerous affairs with young Algerian men.

The Emperor Nero threw over his noble wife, banishing her, for the love of a woman of the commons whom he ultimately married. Yet at the same time, he continued a number of bisexual affairs.

It isn't the kind of thing one sees every day, but it definitely occurs. Nor does she seem to be saying that every happily married man is a closet homosexual. She's merely saying (if I understand her correctly) that actions, even a lifetime of actions, are not a mirror to inner intent.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Thu May 10, 2001 8:06 pm

@Fable...If I had your talent for words...I would rule the world

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu May 10, 2001 8:11 pm

Originally posted by EMINEM:

What?! I can't believe what I just read! You mean to say that a man married to woman for over 25 years, having children with said wife, and breaking up over another woman IS NOT proof of sexual identity?! You'd better check your sources again. If what you say is followed to its logical conclusion, then every happily married family man must a closet homosexual, not to mention those who are heterosexual singles.

Take it easy, Eminem. I meant exactly what I wrote, that being married and having a family is not a proof of anyone being heterosexual. I also clearly stated I have no idea about mr Stewards sexual identity other than the TV-shows I was referring to in the second part of my post, and I don't care. I don't think anyone else than himself and his partner/partners should care, either. Why are you upset?

Now, if you believe that any other proof of any persons' sexual identity exists other than what the person him/herself feels, you forget that homosexuality is still viewed as a taboo by some prejudiced people. Also, gay people do not have the same rights in society as heterosexuals, like marrying and getting children.

Studies show that about 6-7% of humans are homosexual, somewhat more males than females. That's A LOT of people. The fact that some gay people might choose to live in heterosexual relationsships because they want children and a family, is not the same as saying that everybody is gay. If you read my post a bit closer, you will see that your "logical conclusion" is not at all necessary, it's just they way you perceived my text.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu May 10, 2001 8:15 pm

@Fable: You write what I mean much better than I do myself. I'm lucky to have you interpreting what I mean.

Wish English was my fist language

EMINEM · Post by **EMINEM** » Thu May 10, 2001 8:42 pm

It isn't the kind of thing one sees every day, but it definitely occurs. Nor does she seem to be saying that every happily married man is a closet homosexual. She's merely saying (if I understand her correctly) that actions, even a lifetime of actions, are not a mirror to inner intent.[/QB]

You're right, to a point. The question you must answer, however, is whether or not being homosexual is a lifestyle choice, or even a lifetime decision. I happen to think that it IS a conscious decision one makes, and a decision that may also be reversed. I know a few gay men who are now ex-gay, meaning they had numerous same-sexual relations, but are now commited heterosexuals who have married and started families of their own. How do you explain their motivations?

I wholeheartedly disagree with your statement, however, that actions are NOT a mirror to inner intent. If out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks, how much more do our conscious actions? Although your examples may be true, it is far too narrow and particular to apply as a general rule among human beings. Regarding bisexuality or homosexuality, you simply cannot know at what point in a person's life he or she "became" gay. I do believe, however, that what you do is what you are, and that if what you do is unacceptable to the majority, you can justify it by claiming that you have always been like this since you were born, like those who have claimed infidelity to be part of their genetic make-up.

[ 05-10-2001: Message edited by: EMINEM ]

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Thu May 10, 2001 8:50 pm

Good old William Shakespeare is my role model. When someone is capable of scripting tales of such poignancy and truth that they still ring just as potently today as when they were new, that’s someone you want to emulate.

There is a special providence in the fall of a sparrow. If it be now, 'tis not to come; if it be not to come, it will be now; if it be not now, yet it will come. The readiness is all. Since no man, of aught he leaves, knows aught, what is't to leave betimes? Let be.
Hamlet V.ii. 218-223

[ 05-10-2001: Message edited by: Kayless ]

EMINEM · Post by **EMINEM** » Thu May 10, 2001 8:55 pm

Ah yes, William Shakespeare. My favourite line is:

How weary stale flat and unprofitable
Seem to me all the uses of this world
Without role-playing games to keep myself
In a perpetual pre-occupation?

Hamlet 3:4-7

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu May 10, 2001 8:58 pm

@Weasel: If I had your talent for words...I would rule the world.

@Weasel, gather your thugs, I'll gather my words, and together, we shall triumph!

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu May 10, 2001 9:07 pm

@Kayless: I also love Shakespeare, and Marlowe. If you like fantasy, you might like Edmund Spenser's "Faerie Qveen" form the same era.