China's Olympic Bid

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:25 pm

Ah yes, Canada's Human Rights record and Native people. In British Columbia a major treaty was recently settled with the Nis'ga people. The newly elected provincial government wants to open the treaty up and submit it to a provincial referendum.......Funny, I don't recall that Natives were consulted when their land was stolen. Oh and are you aware Eminem that South Africa's Apartheid policy was modeled on the Canadian reserve system? Human rights record indeed!

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Sat Jul 14, 2001 12:09 am

Originally posted by Weasel:
[QB]One little rock can start an avalache.

I don't have all the answers to world problems and I will not hate the Chinese just because of their Government which the people didn't choose.

<snip>[QB]

Well I don't hate the chinese people - but it is after all the people that is going to make the change.

Still as said before I hope for the best, but dosen't expect - I hope my worries are put to shame

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Sat Jul 14, 2001 2:03 am

Originally posted by El Cid:
Two words: Fiftyfirst State!
US saves the day. Jiang made second district Congressman. Chinese able to have daughters again. Everyone happy.

That was almost not a funny joke.

CM · Post by CM » Sat Jul 14, 2001 3:16 am

Look i haven't read the whole post don't have the time.
But i want to state two things.
Atlanta 1996
Athens 2004.
You can't give it to the Western nations again.
Asia hasn't had an olympic since Seoul, which was i think 1978.
Also you guys are discussing Hitler.
Well in the case of Seoul it did work.
There was more liberalization after the olympics.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Jul 14, 2001 8:08 am

@Fas, arguably Turkey is not standard Europe, and while Turkey's human rights record is no shining example to all, it *does* shine next to the hideousness of China's.

And don't for a moment think the Olympics were given to China because of efforts to be fair, or in hopes of China's "human rights rehabilitation." Plain and simple, China is a huge, unbelievably huge commercial market waiting to be tapped by the West, who own the Olympics. Think: advertisers who can cut separate deals with the Chinese. Think: television sports channels who can link into the Chinese cable system. Think: hotel, restaurant, fast food, shopping chains who can move into Chinese towns that are still using the local equivalent of traditional mom-and-pop groceries.

The Olympics simply went where the money is. And the largest remaining violator of human rights on a regular basis is being rewarded for its economic power.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Sat Jul 14, 2001 8:17 am

Here is the dates.

Athens 1896
Paris 1900
St. Louis 1904
London 1908
Stockholm 1912
WW1 1916
Antwerp 1920
Paris 1924
Amsterdam 1928
Los Angeles 1932
Berlin 1936
The 1940 and 1944 Games were not held because of World War 2
London 1948
Helsinki 1952
Melbourne 1956
Rome 1960
Tokyo 1964
Mexico 1968
Munich 1972
Montreal 1976
Moscow 1980
Los Angeles 1984
Seoul 1988
Barvelona 1992
Atlanta 1996
Sydney 2000
Next Games - Athens 2004

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Jul 14, 2001 1:59 pm

@Weasel, if anything, the dates and locations proves how poorly Africa and South America have been represented by the Olympics, with no entries at all.

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Sat Jul 14, 2001 5:56 pm

So should we go and destroy China and rest of the world for not coming up to people's standards in human rights? Should we destroy the U.S because they slaughtered the Native Americans, who weren't given a chance to express themselevs and weren't given rights? Should the U.S start a world war because they feel China's not ding what they want them to do?
I'm sorry I'm not a narrow minded racist Its just not me.

[ 07-14-2001: Message edited by: ThorinOakensfield ]

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Sat Jul 14, 2001 7:17 pm

Originally posted by fable:
@Weasel, if anything, the dates and locations proves how poorly Africa and South America have been represented by the Olympics, with no entries at all.

I agree 100%. When I looked this list up, I thought to myself "Why hasn't there been any in Africa" (I forget about South America). I believe it should be held in one of this places.

Originally posted by ThorinOakensfield:
So should we go and destroy China and rest of the world for not coming up to people's standards in human rights? Should we destroy the U.S because they slaughtered the Native Americans, who weren't given a chance to express themselevs and weren't given rights? Should the U.S start a world war because they feel China's not ding what they want them to do?
I'm sorry I'm not a narrow minded racist Its just not me.

Who here is?? Are you calling me one? I gave my opinion of the the things that can be done. You don't like my three you name some.

scully1 · Post by **scully1** » Sat Jul 14, 2001 7:28 pm

I think it's just plain Wong. HA!!!

*ahem*

Brink · Post by **Brink** » Sat Jul 14, 2001 7:32 pm

Why argue over something that's already been done?I'm sure that there are better things to be concerned of than China's Olympic Bid

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Sat Jul 14, 2001 8:23 pm

@Loner, don't pull any punches do you?

:

hermetic · Post by **hermetic** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 10:22 am

Yeah bummer Beijing got it. But in a way it isn't such a bad thing. I suppose, from the looks of your arguments, that you're a pretty liberal bunch not in favour of human rights abuses. But I agree with those who argue that this will increase the chance for more rights and freedoms in China's future. From a business standpoint it is definitely the best choice. Globalists around the world are jubilant, I'm sure.

On a more political note, I find talk of military action against China simply ridiculous. I dunno what parts of the US the Americans in this discussion are from, but up here in Canada you'll be hard pressed to find a single community devoid of Asians. I'm not trying to induce xenophobic hysteria here, but can there be any doubt that the influx of Chinese into North America is steady and rising? 'Twould seem a silent invasion, no? I'm not implying that the Chinese are actively invading; it seems evident enough that those who do come here as of late do so out a need to escape that forsaken land. But how could we possibly declare war on a nation whose people include millions of residents in the west?

On a lighter note, yeah Canada's human rights record isn't as spotless as you'd think. But at least the aboriginal population has their own national network on Canadian TV now. On any given night, Canadians can now flick to a station and get their fill of native culture. They're great lacrosse players.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 10:52 am

Originally posted by Weasel:
Who here is?? Are you calling me one? I gave my opinion of the the things that can be done. You don't like my three you name some.

Weasel, I think Thorin might be referring to the short post above where somebody suggests China should be the 51st state of the US. This guy was obviously joking, but as I pointed out above it wasn't a very funny joke during the circumstances.

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 12:33 pm

Hermetic writes:
On a more political note, I find talk of military action against China simply ridiculous.

Eh? Who's been talking about military action against China? Even the US fundamentalist fringe, Christian mullahs like Pat Robertson, aren't urging this.

El Cid · Post by **El Cid** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 4:46 pm

C Elegans & Fable: Thorin was clearly responding to Weasels posting of July 13 where he says:

1. Go and see and hope for change.
2. Boycott, and watch how many really do this.
3. Invade them and wipe them off the earth.

I will hope for choose 1., watch greed over take 2. and do my part for my country if 3. happens to be the way.

He was clearly NOT being serious about option #3.

C Elegans, "this guy" wants you to relax and take things in the spirit they were meant, I was obviously joking about making China the 51st State. . .I mean doesn't Israel already hold that distiction?

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 5:01 pm

You might be right about what Thorin referred to, El Cid, I didn't see the post by Weasel you quoted from. Only Thorin himself knows, though...

Originally posted by El Cid:
C Elegans, "this guy" wants you to relax and take things in the spirit they were meant, I was obviously joking about making China the 51st State. . .I mean doesn't Israel already hold that distiction?

I assumed you were joking, but you are an unknown user to me, so I wasn't 100% sure. Have you seen some of the statements people sometimes post here?

My comment that it wasn't a very funny joke during the circumstances, was merely based on the fact that this is a sensitive and "flamable" issue to many people, and since there were no smileys in your post, clearly stating you were joking, some might misunderstand it. Text is not always a good media for ironic jokes, especially since many members here, like myself, has English only as 2nd or even 3rd language.

[ 07-17-2001: Message edited by: C Elegans ]

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 6:09 pm

@El Cid and C Elegans no I wasn't serious about invading China. I was trying to make a point about what could be done about China. I gave three options and asked if there was any more. Everybody is down on China and I would like to know what needs to be done to correct it?

And I still want to know about this supposely racial remarks??

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 6:56 pm

Weasel, I know you of course wasn't serious about invading China, I perceived you merely were stating hypothetical alternatives based on the opinions people express. Also, as I stated above, it seems you and I (and many people here) only view alternative 1 as acceptable.

Originally posted by Weasel:
 Everybody is down on China and I would like to know what needs to be done to correct it?

And I still want to know about this supposely racial remarks??

I agree with you here. It's sooo easy to sit on the other side of the fence, looking at a dictatorship and point out what's wrong. It's much more difficult to be constructive. Many of you might know that Amnesty and the UN does not generally recommend boycott as a tool, it has not proved to be efficient enough, and the civil population usually suffers even more from this.

The racial remarks you mention I can't help you with since I'm confused what posts they were referring to. Obviously, I confused things even worse by believing they referred to El Cid's post.
I guess only the people who wrote the posts can explain this.

[ 07-17-2001: Message edited by: C Elegans ]

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Tue Jul 17, 2001 7:09 pm

Originally posted by C Elegans:


The racial remarks you mention I can't help you with since I'm confused what posts they were referring to. Obviously, I confused things even worse by believing they referred to El Cid's post.
I guess only the people who wrote the posts can explain this.

I'm sorry I made it seem I was refering to either you or El Cid on the racial remarks. The person who posted the comment is the one I was trying to refer to.

You (and El Cid) have my apology for not making this clear.