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Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:14 am
by galraen
imho in bg2 fighter types would be at a distinct disadvantage vs thieves and or bards, the fighter class is just too limited, and has little defense vs stealth / traps / spells.
Such has always been the fate of the PBI*, the solution is to engage brain (if you have one) beforehand and not join the Poor Bloody Infantry.:laugh:

Don't like the logical limitations of being a dumb warrior at the mercy of those with intelligence or street smarts? Don't be a fighter!

After all your fighter almost certainly does have low intelligence and wisdom, otherwise why would he/she be a fighter? If you chose the role of the D&D equivalent of cannon fodder, expect to be fed to the cannon!

Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:36 am
by koz-ivan
galraen wrote:After all your fighter almost certainly does have low intelligence and wisdom, otherwise why would he/she be a fighter? If you chose the role of the D&D equivalent of cannon fodder, expect to be fed to the cannon!
which is too bad really, there should be a place for a crafty / intelligent warriors, but the bg2 engine and perhaps even 1st & 2nd ed ad&d don't really allow for that. thinking of someone like jaraxle or drizzt from the books - they are clearly warriors, but not of the send in the meatshield variety.

the addition of something like disarm or knockdown in nwn went along way to breaking the ftr out of the faceless away team member mold, alas.

Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:25 am
by galraen
Drizzt is a Ranger, not an ordinary fighter, I've never heard of jaraxle!

Good DMs make allowances for those who want to play 'smart' meat shields, and have incorporated such things as knock downs, stuns and disarmament in their campaigns for decades. However when you're making a universal CRPG you have to pretty much abide by universal 'rules', which is one of the reasons why single player, off the shelf, CRPGs will never really be true RPGs.

Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:35 am
by koz-ivan
galraen wrote:Drizzt is a Ranger, not an ordinary fighter, I've never heard of jaraxle!
i may have spelled it wrong my drow to english is a little rusty...

anyway... Jarlaxle is a fictional character in the Forgotten Realms campaign setting based on the Dungeons & Dragons fantasy role-playing game. He first appeared in the 1990 novel, Exile, by R. A. Salvatore as the charismatic and opportunistic drow leader of the mercenary band, Bregan D'aerthe. The character has appeared again in subsequent novels including Road of the Patriarch, The Pirate King and The Promise of the Witch King. He also has a cameo in the CRPG Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn, in which he tricks the PC into stealing gems for him from an undead lich.
galraen wrote:Drizzt is a Ranger,
true, however as far a bg2 is concerned that is almost a distinction w/o a difference, there is very little that drizzt does that a fighter couldn't (or a pally or barbarian for that matter) their combat mechanics are identical.

Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:45 am
by Sykar
Crenshinibon wrote:It all depends on when the boxing match starts though. If we're going all out hackslash, no abilities whatsoever, then a fighter would be a to defeat most characters (with the exception of a Barbarian).

If the bard is allowed to buff himself up, then it would undoubtedly win a full on melee fight, even if the fighter spams his or her abilities. That goes double for a mage.

But then again, sorcerers and mages shine everywhere. xD

But for me, the real point is that while bards are way up there with the most powerful classes, they're also very fun to play.
Mages and Sorcs do not shine until around level 5-8 at least. Before that they have just too few and too weak spells, too few hitpoints and atrocious fighting stats and totally restricted in weapon choice and no armor even if you give them perfect rolls on all 3 physical stats they still suck big time and do not give the party much beside an occasional sleep, web, Colour Spray and a stray missle to finish a near death.
Sure they have some buffing utility and are good to keep on identfying items.
In 3rd edition the shine through a high feat gain as well but that's beside the point.

While the last two facts about their combat prowess do not change dramatically the first two parts increase exponentially and some of those spells can make a wizard quite deadly in melee combat and that is without some multi classing munchkin with a certain infamous fighter kit. :D
Tensers, Improved Haste, Shapechange, Stoneskin, Mirror Image, Black Blade or MMMs all are nice tools for more fighting like approach to combat.

Just compare Level 7-9 spells with all the other spells before. The difference is to a degree staggering.

Same cannot be said about Figher types which more or less scale linearily getting 1/2 extra attack at level 7 and if I remember correctly at 13.

Masteries scale similar from 1-5. The difference is very noticable but not even remotely to the degree a wizard scales from level 12-14 upwards.

By the way I think mages are a little bit stronger than sorcereres in certain level intervals due them getting certain spell levels a level earlier. Or rather the difference isn't very noticable and the decision heavily hinges upon if you do like to spam the same spells over and over or do you want a big selection of spells and like to change often. I am a big fan of the second option and ditched 2 sorcerers at level 15-17 in the underdark which means I deleted them out of complete boredom and went back to my mages. :D
The differences would be even less if Bioware would not have nerfed the spell progression table and give Sorcerer full power at 20 already and give him much more spells afterwards which isn't even available in normal 3rd edition rules at epic levels.

At certain keypoints wizard is undoubtedly stronger imho. Especially when Triggers and Contingencies are obtainabale first time.

Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:58 am
by wise grimwald
koz-ivan wrote:i may have spelled it wrong my drow to english is a little rusty...

anyway... Jarlaxle is a fictional character in the Forgotten Realms campaign setting based on the Dungeons & Dragons fantasy role-playing game. He first appeared in the 1990 novel, Exile, by R. A. Salvatore as the charismatic and opportunistic drow leader of the mercenary band, Bregan D'aerthe. The character has appeared again in subsequent novels including Road of the Patriarch, The Pirate King and The Promise of the Witch King. He also has a cameo in the CRPG Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn, in which he tricks the PC into stealing gems for him from an undead lich.



true, however as far a bg2 is concerned that is almost a distinction w/o a difference, there is very little that drizzt does that a fighter couldn't (or a pally or barbarian for that matter) their combat mechanics are identical.
Jarlaxle is a character in the Drizzt Saga mod also, or so I believe. I certainly found his armour there.