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The fact that Gandalf doesn't use spells willy-nilly does not mean that he isn't a mage. First-off have you read the Hobbit? Secondly what about the fireworks? Thirdly there's a good reason for him not to be too flashy with magic - it's called Sauron, which I thought was made clear in the Book, even if the film doesn't have time for all the details. Generally the magic in LOTR is not so flashy as in D&D, but I think if someone is called a Wizard then it's clear what his primary class should be.

As for Sam, he's too well brought-up to be a thief, he's clearly not a Ranger, hasn't the wit to be a bard (all Hobbits like to sing, that doesn't make them Bards). He does experience something like a rage when his master is threatened. Apart from that he exhibits other, Barbarian-like skills like being good with animals. Not a perfect fit, but I reckon better than the others.

A PoD thank you!!!

I've always believed that Aragorn is a half elf, but no one here believed me!!!
Well, Legolas is quite a capable melee fighter when he runs out of arrows, but I don't think he counted his bow kills in his duel with Gimli, it just wouldnt have worked, I mean, he got 41 or something, but the bow would account for dozens, if not hundreds, of kills when the Orcs stormed Helms Deep.

Gandalf is definately a fighter mage, just magic was used with far more caution in middle earth than in BG realms, its a tricky and dangerous thing.

I agree somewhat with you Knight Errand.
Aragorn I believe probably have some elven blood within him, but he's definitely not half-elven.
No pointy eyes, no extrasharp senses like elves beyond that he's a Ranger and have lived most of his live in the wild.
But he does seem to have a longer lifespand than the regular Man.

Also, Elrond was half-elven (or 3/4 elven or some such), and he clearly resembles an Elf both in physique and in mind.
Besides, he's been alive for like 3500 years or so...

Oh, and I don't think that Sam is a Barbarian. He doesn't really Rage - I din't think that he did anyway - when I read the book.
Also he's more intelligent (or wise) than he let seem.
But that doesn't make him a bard either. More of fighter with some brains to follow.

Frodo on the other hand I could see more as a bard.
He doesn't fight all that well, and most importantly, he really enjoys songs. Both the making of them and the singing - he keeps his memories and expresses his feelings through songs.
Still, that's a somewhat normal trait in Middle-Earth, I suppose.

-Sylvanerian

@Knight Errant,

the kills Legolas made were bow and longknive both, not only the ones he made with the longknive (I have a dutch version so that's why the possible weird word Longknive). Besides that, he also says in the book he had to use the knive coz he was out of arrows (nope, no 120 arrows of detonation for Legolas)

As for my party:
Frodo - Thief
Boromir - Paladin
Aragorn - Ranger
Legolas - Ranger (not the best of combination, I know)
Gimli - Fighter with two handed axe
Gandalf - mage (he has to be something, doesn't he)

I generally only work with the baseclasses and not the specialist, though in case of Legolas I might go for archer.
Frodo, a thief, coz I always take one with me and who else than the little sneaky halflings (quote from Gollum). Aragorn is a ranger, though in book three Paladin would be possible. Boromir is a Paladin for me, coz I think though his actions don't show it, he comes from a family with a lot of Numenorean blood (compare Faramir who would be even better, I admit). Gimli, simple.

And now I have to start building equipment... What a job

My guess about Aragorn is that he is, without a doubt, a Ranger, for most of his life that is. But what everybody seems to forget is that Aragorn is heir to Isildur, KING of Gondor. Therefore I would make him a Paladin for starters, not only because he is a royal of some sort (and that is only by name, not by acts) he also lived at Elronds court for a period in his life, where he CHOSE to look away from his destiny, what is becoming King of Gondor .
That IS what Gandalf and Elrond are talking about when Aragorn and the halflings have reached Elronds home.
So, being raised up as a Paladin, Aragorn chose for himself to become a ranger and do all sorts of rangery things like understanding animal language...

I would chose to make Aragorn a lowlevel Paladin, dualclassed to a Ranger, instead of a plain Ranger, afterall, when the Good finally get rid of Sauron and his evil dudez, Aragorn is the one to sit on Gondors throne, and then he won't be a smelly bushwacker (to call it that way ) But a true King with great charisma and so...

That would be my little guess about Aragorn...

Anyone ever thought about an evil party? Like with Sauron, Saruman, Gollum and three of the Nazgul.
Let'see what those pesky hobbits think of that - he he he

Allmost forgot...
I would make Boromir a chaotic good character, because all he does, he does for the sake of his great big city, while his actions for the good would be quite not-very-noble-but-for-a-very-very-just-cause, and at the meeting of Elrond, you can already see Boromir knows what he can for his city when he has the ring (this, again, with a teeny bit of influence of the ring, of course) But everybody feels the power of the ring, Aragorn, Gimli, Legolas, and so on, but they aren't showing it as much as Boromir, his own great desire for the ring is a booster to its power. That's why he has to be chaotic good. And he too is a nobleman, a nobleman at the battlefront, that is, but still a nobleman, something like Anomen, i would say, with all permission. What would make him a paladin or a fighter, but no barbarian, though Boromirs actions and skills and endurance etc. are very barbarian-like .

Though, my guess is he is a plain warior, no paladin. A bastard/longsword in one hand, his faithfull shield in the other (because Boromir Allways fights sword and shield, though not in his final make-up-for-his-ring-desire-and-die-a-noble-death-defending-the-little-ones-and-being-on-a-nice-killingspree-killing-urukhai-battle, where his shield is in nowhere-place. Though, my guess is he would be more mobile, having to shake off a helluvalot uruk-hai dudes.
Sword and shield stile is the word, and a plain fighter with high con (for the hitpoints, needed for the legendary "taking of the arrows".

my little opinion about Boromir, who is, altough he is only a (huge)sidecharacter in the great trilogy, my favourite...

Originally posted by Wolf_pd:
<STRONG>Anyone ever thought about an evil party? Like with Sauron, Saruman, Gollum and three of the Nazgul.
Let'see what those pesky hobbits think of that - he he he</STRONG>

I like the evil party, though, you can't add sauron, as he is not physical yet, that was 2,500 years ago in the book so...

maybe add wormtongue, as an evel bard or so... And make an evil Barbarian-half-orc, for the leader of the Uruk-Hai (who was called Ugluk for all I can remember...)

Let's deal with the easy one first - if Boromir was a Paladin - he'd have to be a fallen one. Nope, he's definitely a plain fighter, high con, low wisdom.

Aragorn - Paladin dualed to Ranger? Well under 2nd edition he'd have to be pure human. Does he have any Paladin skills? Lay on Hands, Turn Undead, Detect Evil? Nope. Can't see why being a Ranger precludes him from being a King. He was raised by the elves, not as a King in Gondor. Of course he is going to be close to nature.

As far as the half-elf/human debate, in the absence of ¼elf then maybe it would be best to treat him as human with certain additional skills or abilities.

Legolas' kills in the "game" with Gimli are definitely with his "long knife". Seems to me that he may have to be a Multi-classed Archer/Fighter or Archer/Ranger, because he must be more than proficient with that dagger!

Sam is wise, but not intelligent! That makes Bard unlikely (lore!!!). He definitely fights "above himself" when Frodo is threatened. The only classes able to do that are Barbarian and Beserker. Barbarians are silent movers, good with animals, can't specialise in weapons. The only hobbit who's definitely a Bard is Bilbo. I think Frodo gets there eventually, but maybe he's multi. Of course strctly speaking halflings can't be Bards in 2nd Ed rules...

BTW if anyone else here goes back to the days of Runequest, what do they think of the similarities with 3rd Ed rules? Or maybe that's another thread...

Aragorn is not a paladin by any stretch, hes a ranger, lawful good. Boromir has NO Paladin qualities, hes neutral good, or lawful Neutral. if he didnt use swords, I'd call him a priest of helm.
Frodo I think is a swashbuckler with poor strength, 10-11, Samwise is pretty, except as a barbarian. I like the arguments for it.
legolas, as I've mentioned SEVERAL times, is imo, to be a fighter kit called a Marksman. Check the teambg website.

Elrond is a 3/4th elf because his parents were both half-elves.
Idril(elf) + Tuor(human)= Earendil(father)
Beren(h)+Luthien(e)=Dior(half-e)
Dior(he)+Nimloth(e)= Elwing
Elwing and Earendil are Elrond's parents.


Gandalf is an Isarti which are a group of Maia.
Maia are angels(servants to the gods, Valar).
Sauron and the Balrog and the great Eagles are also Maia, making them in power about the same.
Therefor Gandalf and Sauron and the Balrog and Saruman are all angels or demons, and are beyond mortals and the immortals(elves).

The Isarti were sent by the Valar to contend with Sauron's power, because by then the elves had weakened and the Numenoreans weren't so powerful.

Gandalf came as the grey and was the last of the Isarti to arrive at Middle Earth.
Although Saruman was the head, from the beginning Gandalf was greater.

Each Isarti was sent by one of the Vala.
IIRC Saruman sent by Olwe, and Gandalf by Manwe. Manwe being the head of the Valar and the most powerful being in the universe except one.
Manwe had already chosen Gandalf to become powerful.
Anyway Gandalf came as the grey to hide his powers.
Those powers were first totally revealed vs. the balrog.
Gandalf defeated it, with his 'white' powers.
Gandalf was always more powerful than Saruman even if he himself didn't realize it.
So Gandalf is very similar to Elminster.

Some notes-
-Ever wonder why the Eagles always save the day? Because they too are Maia. Eagles are the chosen of Manwe, and he directs them to help the good guys.
-Did anybody else notice the bit in the Two Towers when Gandalf is telling somebody(can't remember, most likely Merry and Pippin) about his battle with the Balrog. He mentions after killing it deep in the abyss he found other creatures of the shadow, much more darker and those that even Sauron does not know off.
Interesting...
-Gandalf mentions that Denethor wasn't totally dominated by Sauron thorugh the plantir like Saruman was.
He further mentioned that Denethor at his height resisted Sauron but Sauron mananged to get at him by showing his vast army. Meanwhile Saurman was totally dominated, although he had sunk from his power.


Aragorn has some elven blood in him but enough to be called a half-elf.
More like 1/20th elf.

Boromir can't have alot of dexterity because he was a big man, and probably not very agile.

Gimli has a really high constitution because when on the rescue for the 2 hobbits w/ Aragorn and Legolas he shows it by running all day and night, and mentions that a dwarf can take alot more than the other two.

Originally posted by sigurd:
<STRONG>Hm, I cant remember the ring making Boromir going crazy, at least not in the way you describe.. Well, maybe you too talks about the movie and not the book...

But he has the Rage inside him...</STRONG>

No, I speak of the book, not the movie. It was the desire to use the power of the ring for Gondor, belief that the mission to destroy the ring was both foolish and unable to succeed, and pride that he would be capable of using the ring without being affected by the rings evil taint that led to him attempting to forcefully take the ring from Frodo. Then, when Frodo escaped from him and the ring was completely beyond his reach, realization came upon him as to what he had done. As a sort of atonement for what he had done and how he had acted, he fought to his last to defend Merry and Pippin. Alas, he was unable to prevent the capture of the two hobbits, but he died valiantly and honorably.

Originally posted by Gaxx_Firkraag:
<STRONG>@SS, Sam as a bard? You sure?</STRONG>

Yeah. There are several instances that suggest this. I can't remember the details, but even Gandalf made such a comment. There were also a couple(maybe more) of situations in which Sam used song(usually in Elvish language) against his enemies.

Originally posted by ThorinOakensfield:
<STRONG>-Did anybody else notice the bit in the Two Towers when Gandalf is telling somebody(can't remember, most likely Merry and Pippin) about his battle with the Balrog. He mentions after killing it deep in the abyss he found other creatures of the shadow, much more darker and those that even Sauron does not know off.
Interesting...</STRONG>

IIRC, Gandalf didn't kill the Balrog. I believe he even followed it to find his way back up towards the surface.

Aragorn has some elven blood in him but enough to be called a half-elf.
More like 1/20th elf.

Yup, But Aragorn is the kings of old REBORN!!

Therefore, the elven blood in him suddenly flared to life.
Your assesment of Boromir, Gimli and the others seems accurate.
And yes, you get the impression from Gandalf that there are greater and darker powers that Sauron. Sauron in fact, is just a servant of a far darker lord, mentioned in Book 3.
And I dont remember any of Gandalf's relations to gods in the books, is it in the Sil?

Gandalf didn't kill the Balrog, it broke its back on the flanks of the mountains. They both fell down the bridge, where they fought each other, then the Balrog went up the Stair without an End (correct if I named it wrong, I know only the Dutch translation), where they fought all the way up the top of the stair and the Balrog fell down the mountain. Said it was a heavy fight, better than for instance Irenicus vs my own PC

Let's deal with the easy one first - if Boromir was a Paladin - he'd have to be a fallen one. Nope, he's definitely a plain fighter, high con, low wisdom.
Aragorn - Paladin dualed to Ranger? Well under 2nd edition he'd have to be pure human. Does he have any Paladin skills? Lay on Hands, Turn Undead, Detect Evil? Nope. Can't see why being a Ranger precludes him from being a King. He was raised by the elves, not as a King in Gondor. Of course he is going to be close to nature.

As far as the half-elf/human debate, in the absence of ¼elf then maybe it would be best to treat him as human with certain additional skills or abilities.

You're right about Boromir, come to think of it, He'd actually be a very loyal Fighter, instead of a Paladin.

And Aragorn, I still think he would be a Paladin/Ranger, but if it where possible, I'd make him an Inquisitor because That one can't cast lay on hands, and I think Aragorn could detect evil, because he in the Prauncing Pony he warns the hobbits about great evil coming to get them and having to go immediately n stuff...

And another thing about Aragorn, I didn't say he wasn't raised at Rivendell, that's true, but he was also raised by his mother, ho would teach him some royal skills and chivalrious (?) stuff, beside the elves, who would obviously teach him "the nature way". But it is said in the book, in the conversation between Gandalf and Elrond, Aragorn is the heir to the throne of Gondor, (quote of Gandalf) he has wandered of that way a long time agoAnd his then in the end of the 2nd or beginning of the 3rd book, He feels his (royal) blood streaming through is vains, Giving the Paladin skills the upper hand for ruling over Gonder, where at first, as a wanderer, or "doler" (if forgot the english word)his Rangerskills had the upper hand. So his royal skills(inquisitor, hunting all that is evil, seeing through lies and liars (the traitor in Bree; Wormtongue) and detecting evil (sensing the Nazg^ul) getting near Bree, so he and the Hobbies have to flee, and not wait for Gandalf.
His wisdom about nature is translated in his druidicspells, he gets from being a Ranger, whereas he cant cast Priestspells,(like an inquisitor cant)

Summary:
Aragorn:
human with some elfish and much royal blood.
Low level Inquisitor dualed to a Ranger
(no priest spells, no lay on hands, but allways after killing baddies and standing far at the front of the ranks of the good people)
Capable of handling bows, greatswords and longswords.
High Char, High Wis
The rest is up to you...

Wow, this is a nice thread!

Well, I've read the books several times and these would be my points:

- Aragorn is 99% ranger, I think the AD@D class could even be taken from his model. Altough I'd like to see him having the lay-on-hands ability because the book says "the hands of the king are healing hands". Besides swords (long, bastard, two handed) Aragorn is probably skilled in clubs and dual wielding, because he fights the Nazgul with torches in both hands. Btw, the book never mentions him using ranged weapons.

- Boromir is a fighter who probably was lawful good until he heard the ring, he's probably chaotic neutral afterwards. A permanent curse that keeps him cn until the ring is destroyed would be nice. Skills are probably different swords and composite long bow. A horn of blasting would fit him well.

- The halflings are probably all fighter thieves, except Sam who could be a fighter. He's a little clumsy for a thief but has a strong constitution. All halflings should have ++ in throwing weapons because halflings are always great at throwing, eg there's the scene where Sam throws an apple at Lutz (I hope that's his Name in the english version too). Their melee skills could be dagger and short sword.

- The Nazgul remind me of the demon nights in the Kua-Toa area, the Balrog could have the balor avatar.

[ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: Phantom Lord ]

I agree with Phantom Lord, Aragorn definetely needs Lay on hands. If it wasn't for him, the 3rd book would have ended very nasty for some people (Faramir, Eowyn and Peppin or was it Merrin).
I know who you mean with Lutz, Phantom Lord, but he is called different in english. Don't ask me how, coz I only have the dutch translation. Halflings are very good with the missile weapons, read the last piece of the book when they return to the Shire and find it ruins, so I would say, add two point to either short bow or sling.