marriage vs. partnership

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 6:07 pm

Originally posted by dragon wench

Yes...I do remember that your thread involved age differentials...but I seem to recall that you also questioned whether or not it would be acceptable for you to embark upon a relationship with a twelve-year-old who had developed something of an infatution for you.....or if you should wait until she is older......

You are right...a romantic involvement and a sexual involvement are not necessarily the same.....however they can frequently intersect and the boundaries between the two, given the intensity of feeling that can arise, are often far from well-defined.... Thus.....in speculating whether or not an adolescent is emotionally or psychologically mature enough to handle a relationship..... the more physical component does require at least some consideration.....

Moreover...... on a more general level I do not think you can arbitrarily decide that an individual is mature enough for a relationship in the one sense while disregarding the sexual dimensions......

Actually, the topic was specifically about age differences and how they expand as you get older. I mentioned the 12-year-old who has a crush on me as an example of our age difference of 6 years being greater than the 10½ year age difference between my parents. I had not intended for the topic to go in the direction it went in. The statement I had made about whether or not I would pursue a relationship with that 12-year-old was that, if I chose to do so, I would wait at least a few years until both of us are older and more mature(which would also make the 6 year age difference seem not quite so big a difference).

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 6:18 pm

Originally posted by VoodooDali

The majority of schools in the US do teach abstinence as opposed to methods of birth control. There's sort of an attitude here that "teaching sex education is letting the fox in the henhouse." As a result, we have the highest teen pregnancy rate in the developed world. There's another side to that issue, as well. I think that a lot of teenagers do know about birth control, but don't use it, because that would mean they planned to have sex in addition to having the sex. Sort of adding a venial sin to a mortal sin (to use Catholic definitions). In my own experience, I thank the gods that be that I had pre-marital sex! There are some sexual partners you might click with emotionally but not sexually. How horrible to find this out after you are married! IMHO, that's too high a price to pay.

Obviously sex is very important to you, which makes me wonder about how important love is to you, no offense. To quote myself(since I can't find what I'm looking for to quote Heinlein directly) again, "Agape is the cake. Eros is the icing on the cake. A cake does not require the icing in order to be good, but the icing can make it 'better.'" Also, "I would rather be celibate and spend the rest of my life with the one I love than to have great sex with someone I don't really love."

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 6:21 pm

Originally posted by Yshania

Yes! And if you place the institute of marriage on a pedastel - then where do you go?...better you know beforehand IMHO...

Is sex really that important to you that you would dump someone just because they weren't 'good enough' in bed?

It's no wonder the world we live in today is so sexually immoral. *sigh*

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 7:57 pm

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn
I don't like the term "making love" when applied to sex because that implies that sex is necessary for there to be love.

No it doesn't. It implies that sex is a physical expression of love. Love is possible outside of marriage. Why not express that?

Edit: IMO the expression of your love for someone should not be limited by whether or not you have some piece of paper.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 8:01 pm

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn
Also, "I would rather be celibate and spend the rest of my life with the one I love than to have great sex with someone I don't really love."[/color]

I think you're missing an option here... you can have both.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 8:28 pm

Originally posted by Georgi
I think you're missing an option here... you can have both.

Did I say you can't? There was a point to what I was saying, which you seem to have missed. It doesn't matter if the person is good at sex, as long as we're truly in love.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 8:34 pm

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn
Did I say you can't? There was a point to what I was saying, which you seem to have missed. It doesn't matter if the person is good at sex, as long as we're truly in love.

How do you know that, not having been in the situation?

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 8:34 pm

Originally posted by Georgi

No it doesn't. It implies that sex is a physical expression of love. Love is possible outside of marriage. Why not express that?

No, sex is a pleasurable act for reproduction. The only thing way sex has anything to do with love is that you do it with the one you love. There are certainly plenty of other ways to express your love for someone.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 8:42 pm

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn
No, sex is a pleasurable act for reproduction. The only thing way sex has anything to do with love is that you do it with the one you love. There are certainly plenty of other ways to express your love for someone.

No, sex is an expression of love. Most people have sex because they love one another, not because they want to reproduce. (And yes, some people have sex just for the pleasure, and without any element of love involved, and that's definitely not for reproduction either.) Did I say it was the only way to express your love for someone? No. People who are in love have sex because of their attraction to each other. It is a natural progression. And it should not be inhibited by a piece of paper. That, to me, is not immoral.

VoodooDali · Post by **VoodooDali** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 8:52 pm

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn
Did I say you can't? There was a point to what I was saying, which you seem to have missed. It doesn't matter if the person is good at sex, as long as we're truly in love.

I wish that were true... I don't know how to explain this, but sex is such an intimate physical act, exp. for females, and there is a part of it that the body really decides. It is possible to love someone and be repulsed by the sex act with them. Haven't you ever liked someone a lot, and then kissed them and been grossed out by the way they kiss? And you just couldn't go on with the relationship in that way?

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 8:52 pm

Originally posted by Georgi
How do you know that, not having been in the situation?

The answer is simple. Sex is not important. Love is.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 8:55 pm

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn
The answer is simple. Sex is not important. Love is.

How do you know whether sex is important or not if you have never experienced it?

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 8:56 pm

Originally posted by VoodooDali

I wish that were true... I don't know how to explain this, but sex is such an intimate physical act, exp. for females, and there is a part of it that the body really decides. It is possible to love someone and be repulsed by the sex act with them. Haven't you ever liked someone a lot, and then kissed them and been grossed out by the way they kiss? And you just couldn't go on with the relationship in that way?

No, that has never happened to me. Perhaps if you put less importance on things such as that and more importance on love, it wouldn't happen to you, either.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 9:00 pm

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn
No, that has never happened to me. Perhaps if you put less importance on things such as that and more importance on love, it wouldn't happen to you, either.

Who are you to make such assumptions about anyone here?

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 9:02 pm

Originally posted by Georgi

How do you know whether sex is important or not if you have never experienced it?

I don't have to experience something to know of it's importance.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 9:05 pm

Originally posted by Georgi

Who are you to make such assumptions about anyone here?

I made no assumption about anything. I stated a possibility that may or may not be true. Please refrain from jumping to conclusions.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 9:10 pm

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn
I don't have to experience something to know of it's importance.

It's entirely possible that your perspective on it will change once you find yourself in such a situation. Just because you haven't experienced a situation such as VDali described doesn't mean you never will. It means it hasn't happened yet.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 9:13 pm

Originally posted by Georgi

It's entirely possible that your perspective on it will change once you find yourself in such a situation. Just because you haven't experienced a situation such as VDali described doesn't mean you never will. It means it hasn't happened yet.

*shrugs* My perspective might change, but I doubt my opinion will.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 9:14 pm

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn
I made no assumption about anything. I stated a possibility that may or may not be true. Please refrain from jumping to conclusions.

I'm not jumping to conclusions. You implied that VDali's experience was because she was prioritising sex over love. That is quite incredibly presumptuous of you, with absolutely no knowledge of the situation, and far less relevant experience by which to judge it. I find that offensive.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 9:14 pm

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn
*shrugs* My perspective might change, but I doubt my opinion will.

But you won't know that for sure until it happens.