I don't believe you want me to go off on that subject, and I know I should not go off on that subject.Originally posted by Aragorn Returns
well then you can pray, you don't have to die to pray.
No, I don't rely on what others tell me the Bible says. I have several NIVs, several NLTs, several NASs, as well as some other translations. My preferred translation, though is New Living Translation, not NAS. That's EMINEM's preferred translation, I believe.Originally posted by Waverly
So essentially you must rely on what others tell you the bible says and accept someone else's interpretation? You should be capable of thinking for yourself. If you are not, or choose not to, you have no business taking issue with my interpretation. Failing to understand the primary source material in this, or any, subject is not indicative of a desire to fully comprehend it.
And I did in fact quote your much preferred NASV. The chapter is Numbers 5.
First off, I think it more appropriate for a serious discussion that you use my chosen screen name and not some insulting variant. I’d be perfectly happy to berate you personally in another thread if that is your wish, but in fairness to the OP we should attempt to keep this a civil discussion on Christianity.Originally posted by Sailor Saturn
And, you should know by now, Wankerly, that I think totally for myself. If you don't, then you've got even less intelligence than I thought you did.
I asked for the chapter number so that I could look not only at the passage in various translations, but also look at what comes before and after the passage.
I'll call you whatever the hell I feel like calling you.Originally posted by Waverly
First off, I think it more appropriate for a serious discussion that you use my chosen screen name and not some insulting variant. I’d be perfectly happy to berate you personally in another thread if that is your wish, but in fairness to the OP we should attempt to keep this a civil discussion on Christianity.
Same goes for your insult to my intelligence. How ironic that you would at once both state you don’t think totally for yourself and that it is my intelligence that is diminished.
I never said they won't speak of the same ritual. However, by looking at different wordings for the same thing, it can be easier to understand. It has been several years since I read about that ritual and I need to read up on it again. I have not yet had the chance to do so, though, because of school, and I don't have time to even give an initial analysis.Go ahead and look up Numbers 5 in any version you desire. Any accurate translation is going to tell of the same ritual, given to Moses by God himself. This is no metaphor. The point is there are hundreds, if not thousands, of statements in the bible that are quite contrary to the standard puritanical fundamentalist views, and many other views that are not supported despite claims to the contrary. Religious beliefs are all well and good if you choose to have them, but hypocrisy and the furthering of an agenda through misuse of a religious text is not.
First off, Jesus is God. It's not a matter of one person overruling another person. I can show you some scripture later, but I have to go right now.Originally posted by Waverly
nael, are you saying Jesus overruled his father unilaterally? Could you provide me a cite from the bible where Jesus either A) disabuses anyone from the old testament scriptures in totality, or B) takes exception to this specific ritual?
And I thought the meek were going to inherit the earth.Originally posted by Sailor Saturn
If you don't like this, Waverly, you can go sit on your flaming sword.
Why would I want Earth when I've already got Saturn.Originally posted by Gruntboy
And I thought the meek were going to inherit the earth.
I mentioned the Jefferson Bible in a thread nearly a year ago, where the "Founding Fathers" of the US, with especial attention paid to Jefferson and Madison, were erroneously stated as examples of people who believed in the unity of Church and State. Here's a link to the Bible Jefferson compiled, itself:Originally posted by VoodooDali
Thomas Jefferson tried to pare down the New Testament to only the words of Jesus. In Jefferson's letter to John Adams (of Oct. 13, 1813), Jefferson speaks of "extracting the pure principles which he "taught" and stripping off "the artificial vestments in which they have been muffled by priests" and ending up with "the very words only of Jesus." THEN, he goes on to say, "There will be found remaining the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man. I have performed this operation for my own use, by cutting verse by verse out of the printed book, and arranging the matter which is evidently his, and which is as easily distinguishable as diamonds in a dunghill." I believe that when Jefferson was done, he was left with a 40-page text.
1. What "many contradictory" elements are you referring to? No offense, but when people tell me that there are "many contradictions" in the Bible, I find they're just repeating what somebody else (read: non-Christians, atheists) has told them without making sure for themselves.Originally posted by VoodooDali
The problem with a literal interpretation of the Bible IMO is that there are many contradictory elements, and also Jesus spoke in parables--an abstract non-literal form open to interpretation.
My question about conservative Christianity is this:
Do you believe that all non-believers will go to hell?
Do you believe all non-believers must be converted?
And every one of those supposed "contradictions" can be explained. I'd put up a URL that addresses them all, but I would prefer discussing this issue on a point by point basis.Originally posted by Robnark
well, here's a site that has quite a good list of 'em
bible contradictions
I think without doubt the US was established as a Christian nation, and that the Founding Fathers built the government on Christian principles regarding human nature and a theistic view of reality, but secular historians have eradicated as much Christian influence as possible from American history.Originally posted by fable
I mentioned the Jefferson Bible in a thread nearly a year ago, where the "Founding Fathers" of the US, with especial attention paid to Jefferson and Madison, were erroneously stated as examples of people who believed in the unity of Church and State.
They most likely did. The OT geneologies, written in a patriarchal society, usually ommitted the names of women. But since Adam and Eve were told to "fill the earth" (figuratively speaking) with their descendents, I think it's safe to assume they had daughters as well as sons who would later intermarry.Originally posted by Robnark
Well one point that always got me, did adam and eve have any daughters?
