We are at War

Audace · Post by **Audace** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 3:50 pm

@Yshania true.

frogus · Post by **frogus** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 3:51 pm

Does anybody know what Section 14 Subsection 12 is?

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 3:52 pm

Originally posted by Sojourner

As in, why would someone target the French?

Funny you should say this. Considering their stance against the war, the French today put 500 more troups on the streets in order to help protect against any possible terrorist activity. Maybe this was in response to the Ricin find, that as of then was not released to the media?

Locke Da'averan · Post by **Locke Da'averan** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 3:57 pm

There are only two men to blame for this war IMO Hussein and Bush, although bush went too far... all i can hope is that finland will remain neutral in this affair(don't see any reason why it wouldn't...) but still... the fear of WW3 lurks in my mind, i don't think it'll be as "swift" as the gulf war back in 1991, this may turn into very ugly. From what i can understand in all this is that Bush is F......NG idiot! i just don't understand how a one stupid man president or not can start a war by himself??? i hope that the soldiers get to their homes safely or if that doesn't happen, die quickly so there doesn't come any more suffering than there already is...

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 3:58 pm

Originally posted by Audace

As in, why do you think the war in Iraq and the two bottles that were found in the train are related incidents?

It may be unrelated, but IMO it is necessary for us to not to be complacently blind to the possibility of Iraqi supporters intending harm abroad by such tactics. We are at war...the FBI have released the name of a man they are looking for, that they consider a threat on US soil, they have apparently thousands of names on a register...

At the same time, we also need to be wary of paranoid scare mongering, but to me, the kind of people who carry disguised quantities of such substances are up to no good....

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 4:00 pm

Originally posted by Yshania
Funny you should say this. Considering their stance against the war, the French today put 500 more troups on the streets in order to help protect against any possible terrorist activity. Maybe this was in response to the Ricin find, that as of then was not released to the media?

I am wondering if perhaps the Ricin is related to possible terrorism from within... Perhaps those who are against their government's stance on the war had something to do with it.
It is hard to say though... Extremism (no matter its stripes) rarely recognises degrees of difference....

Chanak · Post by **Chanak** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 4:02 pm

@Xandax: Great post, and I agree wholeheartedly as well.

I suppose my initial reaction to the assault was one based upon experience. I also want to help shed some light on chemical and biological weaponry by offering my personal perspective, just so everyone can grasp how horrifying it is.

I underwent extensive training in this area in the military...it was called "NBC" somewhat jokingly by the trainers. However, NBC stands for Nuclear Biological and Chemical. We were issued charcoal lined suits called "NBC" suits, along with the M-17 gas mask (equipped with filters fine enough to stop airborne nerve agent particles), and very heavy gauge rubber gloves and boots. Together, the suit, mask, hood, and gloves were called "MOPP" gear (Mission Oriented Protective Posture). We were trained to install the mask with hood in less than 3 seconds when the warning was issued...commonly "Gas! Gas! Gas!" We were also subjected to countless hours in training while wearing the full complement of MOPP gear. Some soldiers couldn't handle it...the feeling of claustrophobia could be overwhelming at times.

However, to ensure that each soldier understood on an instinctual level just how important it was to stay in your MOPP gear, the US Army sends all trainees through the "Gas Chamber". I have commented on this before, and another SYM member noted that it was featured in the movie "GI Jane." Well, this is an actual event in training....and I can't describe the experience to you, other than to say it was rather horrific after 5 seconds of unprotected exposure. I was one of the lucky ones; I managed to leave the gas chamber without vomiting all over myself...

In any event, you are issued a special atropine injector with your MOPP gear. This is the only known way to counter nerve agents...whether airborne, or contact. Essentially, we all knew it was unlikely that we would ever actually be able to use it in time, for nerve agent takes effect in less than a second, and kills swiftly. The first sign of exposure is loss of muscular control...

Nerve agent was the least of our worries, for there is something much more evil and sinister, called "Blood Agent." Blood Agent is undetectable for the most part, and effects the body by contact. It is usually applied to vegetation and other objects likely to be contacted by military personnel as they move through an area. There is no known antidote to Blood Agent...and the only way you know you have contacted it (before death) is to take a litmus test from a sample of your blood. If it turns up positive, you have approximately 6 hours to live.

I know what they face out there. When I heard that the attack commenced, the only thing on my mind was the battle.

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 4:04 pm

Originally posted by dragon wench

I am wondering if perhaps the Ricin is related to possible terrorism from within... Perhaps those who are against their government's stance on the war had something to do with it.
It is hard to say though... Extremism (no matter its stripes) rarely recognises degrees of difference....

We will probably never know, and are therefore left to speculate.

@Chanak, oh my!

*hug*

RandomThug · Post by **RandomThug** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 4:04 pm

@Locke Da'averan - I do believe you have facts mistaken. For starters he isn't alone, many nations our aiding us. Another is the fact that thier has been ample time for Saddam to prevent war, but he like bush knew from the beggining that it was ending in war. This isn't "one big f'ng idiot". It's an attempt to remove a regime of evil from power in a land that should be held in high standards for its roots in history, but instead its a dump... a kingdom to a thug. You can fight the reasons why, but its too late.

I too wish to soldiers home safely.

Brian, Kevin and Joey to be exact.

War is war. No more discussion of if its good or bad or who is right, all we can do is hope for the safety of our brothers and sisters and swift victory.

Audace · Post by **Audace** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 4:10 pm

Originally posted by Yshania

At the same time, we also need to be wary of paranoid scare mongering, but to me, the kind of people who carry disguised quantities of such substances are up to no good....

You're right about that. But although ricine is a very deadly poison, as far as I know it's not a WMD. And making the Iraq connection would be a bit presumptuous at this stage.

Perhaps those who are against their government's stance on the war had something to do with it.

I'm sorry but I don't like guessing games like this. It makes too fertile a ground for mass hysteria.

Locke Da'averan · Post by **Locke Da'averan** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 4:12 pm

@Random: well didn't mean it exactly like that, the goal is admirable one(removing hussein, i've been hoping that to happen for ages.. but not like this) i was more thinking that US would dispatch an assassin to takeout Hussein... unofficially of course but still.
and although US is backed up by several nations what i meant with "by himself" was that he didn't really bother to listen if the nation he is supposed to serve not vice versa had to say about the attack, what i've read, there are a majority against the war in US, i may be wrong...

Chanak · Post by **Chanak** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 4:16 pm

I think fable has asked that all debate concerning the war be done in the other threads that are for that topic specifically...

War is hell. The more modern it has become, the more efficient it is at killing soldiers. My hope is that our soldiers come home soon...and the objective be pursued sans political manuevering. The worst enemy of a soldier is fear...and politics.

RandomThug · Post by **RandomThug** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 4:17 pm

edit moved to another thread, sorry.

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 4:18 pm

@Audace, I agree, it is circumstantial speculation...and we do need to take care...

The problem is, is that it is hard to blame a nation or any organisation for speculating on possible links in respect of the threat of terrorism - considering the circumstances

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 4:18 pm

Originally posted by Sojourner
As in, why would someone target the French?

The French and Islamic groups have been going at it for some time now, and it's not related to anything going on in Iraq or Israel. Going back into the 19th Century, when they occupied Algeria and parts of northwest Africa, there have been various separatist groups who have been wanted to be rid of lingering French presence in the region (for instance, the French Foreign Legion was headquartered in Algeria until 1961, but they still have a presence there).

There also are a large number of north Africans who emigrated to France as labourers and they are treated like second-class citizens (if they are able to apply for citizenship at all; I don't know). So tensions have been high for a while and I'm sure this war isn't helping.

Scayde · Post by **Scayde** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 4:24 pm

Originally posted by Chanak
[BI know what they face out there. When I heard that the attack commenced, the only thing on my mind was the battle. [/b]

I know you do Sweetheart....*HUG*

Originally posted by RandomThug
I too wish to soldiers home safely.

Brian, Kevin and Joey to be exact.

War is war. No more discussion of if its good or bad or who is right, all we can do is hope for the safety of our brothers and sisters and swift victory.

I will pray for them too.

Are these your brothers and friends?

RandomThug · Post by **RandomThug** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 4:58 pm

Brian is my brother, Kevin is a friend who I have known my whole life. In fact kevins dad was friends with my father, my fathers uncles were friendswith kevins dads uncles... and Joey is a great kid I know who is an Army grunt... In germany now I think...

Scayde · Post by **Scayde** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 5:05 pm

Originally posted by Yshania

@Scayde:*hug* sadly, according to a London radio station (LBC), Blair has been quoted as saying we would be naive to believe the war will be over any time soon.

Latest:

1. British troups have now mobilised in southern Iraq, heading towards a strategic location.

2. Reports that in 2 of 5 suspicious bottles found in a French train station on Monday, Ricin was found.

Thanks Ysh...*HUG*........My son brought home a letter today stating that due to received threats on our refineries in the area, schools here may be closed without further notice. Please have arrangements in order>

@Voo: Yes, that is the term they are employing, but the first time I heard it used was in conjunction with Russia's policy of leaving nothing behind as they retread from Germany in W.W.II. It is not just the oil wells they are setting fire too, there have been reports of them sabotaging their own electrical plants, and planning on destroying dams. It matters not to the Iraqi people who wins this war, they will need their infrastructure when it is over.

Scayde · Post by **Scayde** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 5:06 pm

Originally posted by RandomThug
Brian is my brother, Kevin is a friend who I have known my whole life. In fact kevins dad was friends with my father, my fathers uncles were friendswith kevins dads uncles... and Joey is a great kid I know who is an Army grunt... In germany now I think...

I will light three candles....and pray for their safe return...*HUG*

InfiniteNature · Post by **InfiniteNature** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 6:09 pm

Just got back from a emergency protest, a lot of angry people flicking of fingers, etc., we showed American flags, all that still you should be ashamed of yourself all that, oh well I guess some people equate against the war as against the troops.

Did anyone see that show on 60 minutes where they adressed the lack of protection the soldiers had to chemical weapons, supposably most of the suits that they use have holes in them or something, not sure which episode, I think maybe one maybe two weeks ago.