Which D&D/Forgotten Realms books do any suggest for these subjects?

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:25 pm

Alright, here's something else that I could use for my Project Dungeon Crawl thread. Where can I find stats on a Whip of Fangs?

I know it's one of those snake-headed whips generally carried by Drow priestesses of Lolth, but I'm just itching to get the correct stats for it.

Ripe · Post by **Ripe** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:01 am

Whip of Fangs

The only description of Whip of Fangs that I could find is in old 2nd ed FR Accessory "The Drow of the Underdark".

Here is that description:

Whip of Fangs: Evil priest are the only beings able to employ these horrific weapons. In drow communities, only priestesses are allowed to posses and use them.
These belt whips have adamantite handles, but their tendrils are living snake-heads, 2-5 in number. The whips, once enchanted, are attuned to specific individual and may only be used by another being after another attunment ritual has been performed (otherwise they attack anyone except their attuned wielder who touches them!). The ritual of attunment requires the consent of Lolth, and priestesses consider such whips personal gifts from her, beliving that they will cease to function, or even turn on their wielder, if they are used in an act against the will of the Spider Queen. Forbidden acts usually include using a whip against Matron Mother or other rulling priestess.
Living serpents are required in the making of these weapons; they become enchanted extensions of the will of the wielder. The whip of an angry priestess can knot about her belt, and menace the being she is angry with, without her even touching it.
The whip's tendrils are 1 to 3 feet in length. Each is AC 8, has 2 HD, and attacks (THAC0 14) for 2d4 hp of damage. The serpent-heads have no poison effects, but their long fangs bite deep, leaving scars and injecting waves of magic that both numb and shot waves of muscle-knotting pain trough victim.
Angry drow priestesses typically use these whips indiscriminatly on slaves, servants, pupils, male relatives and casual acquaintaces. Injured heads regenrate 2 hp/day; slain heads cannot be healed.
XP Value: 1000 Suggested GP Value: 1000 + 500 per living head

I know that this may not be what you need but I belive it is the only description ever made (I checked "Underdark", "Magic of Faerun", "PGtF" and "FRCS" and there is no description).

Mr.Waesel · Post by **Mr.Waesel** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:21 am

Serpent Kingdoms sorta has what you want.

Ripe · Post by **Ripe** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 7:38 am

I agree with Mr. Weasel that "Serpent Kingdom" (it would never occur to me to look for it there) description is closest to original Whip of Fangs but they made it a construct while in several novels it is described as having real living snakes (there is a description of its creation in "Daugter of the Drow" which includes live summoned snakes).

And it deals only 1d2-2 damage (meaning 1 point per head)??????

In novels there is several characters killed by repeated hits with Whip of Fang (Matron Malice Do'Urden among them) and if they did only 1 point of damage it would take a really long time to do it.

Also Scourge of Fangs (that's what they call it) allways had 5 heads while in novels carrying a 5-headed whip is described as sign of greatest Lolth's favor and weapon worthy of a Matron Mother.

Whip of Fangs are gift from Lolth which would made them minor artifacts and reducing them to ordinary magical item that can easily be created is insulting at best (just my opinion)

So in terms of game mechanics "Serpent Kingdom" description may be correct but in spirit of the game it is far from that misterious and frightening weapon worn by High Priestesses of Lolth.

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 7:45 am

Well they use live snakes, but as soon as the snakes are (on) the weapon, they are constructs.
They may look like real snakes, but they are constructs.

Otherwise you'd need to feed them and so on.

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 10:29 am

Okay, so, in short, I should go w/ Serpent Kingdoms?

The Great Hairy · Post by **The Great Hairy** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:37 pm

Serpent Kingdoms is on Faerun book I actually own - I love Yuan Ti as baddies, and so had to have it. The book itself is okay (I probably rate it higher than a lot of others simply because of Yuan Ti) but I wouldn't buy it just for the one item.

Let me get home tonight, and I'll post the details of whatever I can find out about the Whip of Fangs.

Cheers,
TGHO

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:48 pm

[QUOTE=The Great Hairy]Serpent Kingdoms is on Faerun book I actually own - I love Yuan Ti as baddies, and so had to have it. The book itself is okay (I probably rate it higher than a lot of others simply because of Yuan Ti) but I wouldn't buy it just for the one item.

Let me get home tonight, and I'll post the details of whatever I can find out about the Whip of Fangs.

Cheers,
TGHO[/QUOTE]

Well, that's really nice of you, Hairy.

Yuan-Ti do make me somewhat curious, and probably might make me feel even more so after I read the novel Venom's Taste, (got a paperback copy along w/ Races of Stone a couple months ago). But yeah, getting the stats or what-not on the whip is my main thing right now.

The Great Hairy · Post by **The Great Hairy** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:55 am

Okay, here you go:

Scourge of Fangs: + 2 adamantine scourge (d8 dam). 5 adamantine serpent heads, each of which can attack once per round. Each serpent head has 2d10 hps, BAB +8 (but the wielder can substitute their own if they do not attack that round), dam 1d2 -2, poison - 4 to attack rolls, skill checks and ability checks for 2d4 rounds, save to make -2 (DC 11). The snake heads are constructs (with appropriate immunities), AC 17, DEX 17, darkvision 60ft.

Note that this item can not be wielded by someone good aligned (the snake heads attack the wielder if this is the case). If a snake head is slain, it is permanently gone (although the text does say repair is possible - it doesn't detail this further however). It's worth 32,000gp.

That's it. A pretty rubbish item actually - the snake head damage is dreadfully low, and the poison is awful. Personally, I'd increase the damage, and change the poison to CON draining, and make it 2d6 CON save DC 22 or so.

Cheers,
TGHO

Ripe · Post by **Ripe** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:40 am

That's it. A pretty rubbish item actually - the snake head damage is dreadfully low, and the poison is awful. Personally, I'd increase the damage, and change the poison to CON draining, and make it 2d6 CON save DC 22 or so.

I agree with Hairy that Scourge of Fangs is rubbish item. You should increase the damage (maybe to 2d4 - that was original 2nd ed damage) but the poison effect should remain more or less the same - just increase the save (DC 17 or 18 maybe) and possibly even made it affect saves (it is a instrument of torture after all). Give it a random number of heads (anything between 2 and 6 works) - more heads means greater respect from other priestesses.

Oh, forget its 32000 gp worth - they are gift from godess attuned to specific priestess and work only for that priestess (it attack everyone else - even other priestesses who try to wield it).

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:16 pm

[QUOTE=Ripe]I agree with Hairy that Scourge of Fangs is rubbish item. You should increase the damage (maybe to 2d4 - that was original 2nd ed damage) but the poison effect should remain more or less the same - just increase the save (DC 17 or 18 maybe) and possibly even made it affect saves (it is a instrument of torture after all). Give it a random number of heads (anything between 2 and 6 works) - more heads means greater respect from other priestesses.

Oh, forget its 32000 gp worth - they are gift from godess attuned to specific priestess and work only for that priestess (it attack everyone else - even other priestesses who try to wield it).[/QUOTE]

Well, it's ultimately a weapon for one of the characters of this webcomic. As Hairy knows, I'm the one who's currently writing the stats for those characters, so I'll have to have Kayless (the writer of the comic) look at those whip stats to see what he thinks.

The Great Hairy · Post by **The Great Hairy** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:37 pm

In which comic does Teagan actually use one of these? I've had a look through the earlier comics, and can't see her using it (admittedly the BG sprites make it hard to see exactly what she *is* using for a weapon...).

Cheers,
TGHO

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:02 am

I wsa thinking the same thing.
Plus, I know her info states that she is evil but so far I don't look at her as actually being evil. Perhaps she has/needs a alignment shift?

The Great Hairy · Post by **The Great Hairy** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:34 pm

Especially since she seems to be falling for Castor - who, whilst probably not 100% good, is certainly not evil. Hmm, maybe we'll be seeing a breakup of the Shadow Pack in the future... With Teagan joining the good guys? That could be interesting! And the good guys need a cleric, anyway.

Cheers,
TGHO

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:13 pm

Okay, here's some other things I'm looking for...

1) Descriptions for monster hides used for crafting armor/shields. I know the DMG and Draconomicon both go into detail about Dragonhide armor, and Draconomicon going further about the ideal Dragoncraft armor (pretty much like Red Dragon Scale/Plate armor from BG2).

However, what about, say, Winter Wolf or Demon/Devil hides and whatever else may be made in special versions of commond armor & shields?

2) The Eye of Gruumsh prestige class. Last I heard, The Complete Warrior had a version of this prestige class available for 3.5 Edition. Correct and worth buying?

3) Specific gear (magical and non-magical) for different classes, including camping gear, scroll containers for Wizards or Socerers, and things for Rogues or Assassins. PHB, I presume?

4) Half-Fey and Half-Elemental Templates. I heard that Fiend Folio contains Half-Fey. Not sure about Half-Elemental.

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:52 pm

[QUOTE=Galuf the Dwarf]Okay, here's some other things I'm looking for...

1) Descriptions for monster hides used for crafting armor/shields. I know the DMG and Draconomicon both go into detail about Dragonhide armor, and Draconomicon going further about the ideal Dragoncraft armor (pretty much like Red Dragon Scale/Plate armor from BG2).

However, what about, say, Winter Wolf or Demon/Devil hides and whatever else may be made in special versions of commond armor & shields?
[/QUOTE]

I usually create my own based on the modifiers in the DMG. Discuss with your DM and it works fine without costing much money. Your game styles must allow this though.

[QUOTE=Galuf the Dwarf] 2) The Eye of Gruumsh prestige class. Last I heard, The Complete Warrior had a version of this prestige class available for 3.5 Edition. Correct and worth buying?
[/QUOTE]

Correct. I like it, siply because it makes your fighter more detailled and interesting. It has little value other then prestige classes and it isn't worth it if you already have books like Swords and Fists etc.

[QUOTE=Galuf the Dwarf]
3) Specific gear (magical and non-magical) for different classes, including camping gear, scroll containers for Wizards or Socerers, and things for Rogues or Assassins. PHB, I presume?
[/QUOTE]

PHB indeed, but there are additional (and cool) tools, gear, weapons etc. in the add ons like Swords and Fists, Song and Silence, Tomb and blood etc.

[QUOTE=Galuf the Dwarf]4) Half-Fey and Half-Elemental Templates. I heard that Fiend Folio contains Half-Fey. Not sure about Half-Elemental.[/QUOTE]

The Half-Fey is in the Fiend Folio indeed. The Half-Elemental aren't IIRC.

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:13 pm

Rob-hin wrote:I usually create my own based on the modifiers in the DMG. Discuss with your DM and it works fine without costing much money. Your game styles must allow this though.

Well then, I guess I'll have to come up with ideas on my own then.

Correct. I like it, siply because it makes your fighter more detailled and interesting. It has little value other then prestige classes and it isn't worth it if you already have books like Swords and Fists etc.

Are there any differences between the 3.0 and the 3.5 versions? Besides, I thought it was in Masters of the Wild, not Sword and Fist. That is, unless WotC was wrong in this article.

I don't have any of those books, so the version most accurate to 3.5 Edition (if changes were made) is what I'm looking for.

PHB indeed, but there are additional (and cool) tools, gear, weapons etc. in the add ons like Swords and Fists, Song and Silence, Tomb and blood etc.

Well, if those were in a set or all in one specific 3.5 Edition book, I'd be more inclined to get them. Gotta pinch some pennies at times.

For this question, I'm really using these for the DCI character statistics.

The Half-Fey is in the Fiend Folio indeed. The Half-Elemental aren't IIRC.

Are Half-Elementals in any sourcebook at all, then? What about MM2/3 or Monters of Faerun?

Oh, and in case anyone was curious or I never made it really clear, I'm really looking to stretch my creativity through these and other books, possibly helping other actual players of the game become more creative. This really is what my writing capabilities turned into at this point.

The Great Hairy · Post by **The Great Hairy** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:46 pm

There is a rulebook called "The Arms and Equipment Guide" which has a huge amount of new gear and magical items. It also covers new materials and stuff for armour and weapons (although the choice is a little limited). You could quite easily extend this section within the book to include new materials. I also use Rolemaster Equipment Guide - it has dozens of new metals and organics used for making arms and armour. Quite worthwhile (although hard to find these days, I would think).

It is also worth checking out the Book of Vile Darkness and the Book of Exhalted Deeds for new stuff as well - some really cool stuff in Vile. Not so much in Deeds.

The splat books are okay, but very limited, IMO.

I believe that Half-Elementals are covered in MM3, but I am not 100% sure. I'll check tonight when I get home.

Cheers,
TGHO

Magrus · Post by **Magrus** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:54 pm

[QUOTE=Galuf the Dwarf]Are there any differences between the 3.0 and the 3.5 versions? Besides, I thought it was in Masters of the Wild, not Sword and Fist. That is, unless WotC was wrong in this article.[/QUOTE]

It's in Masters of the Wild, not sure about Sword and Fist.

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:11 pm

Well, I just checked Wizards' website, and they're saying Half-Elemental comes from the Manual of the Planes. Oh joy, another book to get for one thing only...

TGH: Just checked Amazon.com for REG. No luck.

BTW, what exactly are these 'splat books' that you're talking about?